AVATAR land - the specifics

[AmongMadPeople]

A link on a thread to the same thread?

Someone else started a new thread, and it was merged into this one instead of locked.

 

[Jimmy Thick]

Compare it to Carsland which probably cost about the same in total dollars. Then factor in Pandora will not need near the rockwork (expensive) and that labor is cheaper in Florida (cost savings) and you can start getting an idea of what we can expect. Personally I expect something on the scale of Carsland but mostly indoors.

My money is on it was pulled out of thin air. They needed a number large enough to excite the fans but no so large that stockholders would have a heart attack.

Now this is just my speculation for sake of discussion.

Say there is a 500 million budget.

If there are plans to make it indoor, with true themeing matching the film you're looking at 300 to 400 million right there if Disney wants to make a statement about how well they can theme an attraction. If they want to top Potter, it could even be more. That don't leave too much for a e-ticket, which they will HAVE to build for this and I hate to say it, the ride has to equal or top Forbidden Journey. Another simulator just won't cut it.

Now after you get through the indoor themeing and only one attraction, you pretty much got nothing left out of 500 million. Carsland had three times the budget.

How cheap can Disney pull this off?

Jimmy Thick- Possible budget cuts to Avatarland not included...

 

[Master Yoda]

Now this is just my speculation for sake of discussion.

Say there is a 500 million budget.

If there are plans to make it indoor, with true themeing matching the film you're looking at 300 to 400 million right there if Disney wants to make a statement about how well they can theme an attraction. If they want to top Potter, it could even be more. That don't leave too much for a e-ticket, which they will HAVE to build for this and I hate to say it, the ride has to equal or top Forbidden Journey. Another simulator just won't cut it.

Now after you get through the indoor themeing and only one attraction, you pretty much got nothing left out of 500 million. Carsland had three times the budget.

How cheap can Disney pull this off?

Jimmy Thick- Possible budget cuts to Avatarland not included...

One thing Disney is going to have to do is get the cost of their attractions under control. Supposedly, the entire HP expansion came in with a price tag of $265 million. The cost of the Little Mermaid on its own is reported to be in the $100 million range. If those numbers are even close to correct the mouse needs a serious lesson in getting more bang for their buck. If they can do that, $500 million could do some insanely cool things, if not well....

 

[marni1971]

One thing Disney is going to have to do is get the cost of their attractions under control. Supposedly, the entire HP expansion came in with a price tag of $265 million.

At the very most. I'd heard just slightly less, even so a very good point.

 

[Jim Handy]

One thing Disney is going to have to do is get the cost of their attractions under control. Supposedly, the entire HP expansion came in with a price tag of $265 million. The cost of the Little Mermaid on its own is reported to be in the $100 million range. If those numbers are even close to correct the mouse needs a serious lesson in getting more bang for their buck. If they can do that, $500 million could do some insanely cool things, if not well....

To do that they'd have to cut out the insanely bloated operation structure they've got going on.

 

[jt04]

Now this is just my speculation for sake of discussion.

Say there is a 500 million budget.

If there are plans to make it indoor, with true themeing matching the film you're looking at 300 to 400 million right there if Disney wants to make a statement about how well they can theme an attraction. If they want to top Potter, it could even be more. That don't leave too much for a e-ticket, which they will HAVE to build for this and I hate to say it, the ride has to equal or top Forbidden Journey. Another simulator just won't cut it.

Now after you get through the indoor themeing and only one attraction, you pretty much got nothing left out of 500 million. Carsland had three times the budget.

How cheap can Disney pull this off?

Jimmy Thick- Possible budget cuts to Avatarland not included...

The show buildings themselves are no longer big budget items as they were in the past for the most part. Carsland was a major exception because they had to block visual intrusions with all that rock work and steel infrastructure. None of that will be necessary at DAK. So then it is possible most of the budget will go into 'show' and not just facades. Also building to hurricane code is likely cheaper than meeting earthquake codes.

I think we can expect something that competes easily with at least Potter phase 1.

 

[Master Yoda]

To do that they'd have to cut out the insanely bloated operation structure they've got going on.

That among other things as well. From what I hear they are not very good at taking off the artist hat and putting on an accounting suit. When you those in charge insisting on using a paint made from ground up unicorn horns at $1000/gallon vs. the exact same color from Home Depot at $20/ gallon it is no mystery how budgets get out of control.

 

[jt04]

To do that they'd have to cut out the insanely bloated operation structure they've got going on.

Reforms have been undertaken as evidenced by more outsourcing. As long as WDI retains a final say on content I think things have moved in the right direction. Just look at the wildly popular Carsland and look at the quality of the FLE. Things have change a lot.

 

[jt04]

That among other things as well. From what I hear they are not very good at taking off the artist hat and putting on an accounting suit. When you those in charge insisting on using a paint made from ground up unicorn horns at $1000/gallon vs. the exact same color from Home Depot at $20/ gallon it is no mystery how budgets get out of control.

Too many of you are stuck in 2005.

 

[Master Yoda]

Too many of you are stuck in 2005.

Is that where reality lives? When they can build an attraction somewhere between a rational price and an insane price I'll believe otherwise.

 

[RSoxNo1]

I think we can expect something that competes easily with at least Potter phase 1.

To be completed after Potter Phase 2.

 

[jt04]

To be completed after Potter Phase 2.

That is the way it has always happened and likely always will. US opened before Disney/MGM. Sea World opened before the Living Seas. Legoland opened before the FLE. Not seeing a problem with this way of doing business.

 

[RSoxNo1]

That is the way it has always happened and likely always will. US opened before Disney/MGM. Sea World opened before the Living Seas. Legoland opened before the FLE. Not seeing a problem with this way of doing business.

MGM Studios (5/1/1989) was rushed to open before Universal Studios (June 7, 1990)
Sea World predated The Living Seas by 10+ years so I'm not sure that was reactionary.

Disney has always been at the forefront of building top innovative attractions but that stopped when Islands of Adventure opened up. They were prepared to react but because Islands of Adventure didn't hurt their attendance they were no where near as aggressive in building. Now it's caught up to them.

 

[jt04]

MGM Studios (5/1/1989) was rushed to open before Universal Studios (June 7, 1990)
Sea World predated The Living Seas by 10+ years so I'm not sure that was reactionary.

Disney has always been at the forefront of building top innovative attractions but that stopped when Islands of Adventure opened up. They were prepared to react but because Islands of Adventure didn't hurt their attendance they were no where near as aggressive in building. Now it's caught up to them.

That is doubtful.

I thought ToT and RnRC were reactions to IoA. As was DAK.

 

[Jim Handy]

That among other things as well. From what I hear they are not very good at taking off the artist hat and putting on an accounting suit. When you those in charge insisting on using a paint made from ground up unicorn horns at $1000/gallon vs. the exact same color from Home Depot at $20/ gallon it is no mystery how budgets get out of control.

QFT

Reforms have been undertaken as evidenced by more outsourcing. As long as WDI retains a final say on content I think things have moved in the right direction. Just look at the wildly popular Carsland and look at the quality of the FLE. Things have change a lot.

Carsland still came in over budget. And Fantasyland costs more than it should. WDI is at the top of their game at the moment. Their game is just very costly.

As to the competition timelines being discussed here....

DHS beat USF as RSoxNo1 said.

DAK was announced in 1995, IoA in 93. DAK opened first, but wasn't really designed to beat IoA. The Disney Decade plans for the Studios were to serve that purpose. Neither Universal Park was ever a real threat until Potter. Disney was peaking when Universal was getting better, now Disney has declined as Universal has approached their peak.

Potter 1 will remain unanswered. Fantasyland will greet Potter 2 and Transformers and won't come out on top. Avatarland will likely come after Potter 2. What Avatar will have what Universal will be adding by then remains to be seen.

 

[jt04]

QFT

Carsland still came in over budget. And Fantasyland costs more than it should. WDI is at the top of their game at the moment. Their game is just very costly.

As to the competition timelines being discussed here....

DHS beat USF as RSoxNo1 said.

DAK was announced in 1995, IoA in 93. DAK opened first, but wasn't really designed to beat IoA. The Disney Decade plans for the Studios were to serve that purpose. Neither Universal Park was ever a real threat until Potter. Disney was peaking when Universal was getting better, now Disney has declined as Universal has approached their peak.

Potter 1 will remain unanswered. Fantasyland will greet Potter 2 and Transformers and won't come out on top. Avatarland will likely come after Potter 2. What Avatar will have what Universal will be adding by then remains to be seen.

Interesting opinions. Some of it is reasonable but much isn't.

 

[Horizonsfan]

Interesting opinions. Some of it is reasonable but much isn't.

Considering most of that post is fact, what exactly wasn't reasonable?

 

[spacemt354]

That is doubtful.

I thought ToT and RnRC were reactions to IoA. As was DAK.

No. IoA opened in 1999.

ToT opened in 1994. DAK was 1998. RnRC was 1999.

Disney has always been the company the others have tried to compete with. Although that is still happening from an attendance standpoint, there has now been a role reversal where Disney is only reacting to the competition's new ideas, rather than taking the initiative like they used to in the past, circa before IoA.

 

[Captain Chaos]

No. IoA opened in 1999.

ToT opened in 1994. DAK was 1998. RnRC was 1999.

Disney has always been the company the others have tried to compete with. Although that is still happening from an attendance standpoint, there has now been a role reversal where Disney is only reacting to the competition's new ideas, rather than taking the initiative like they used to in the past, circa before IoA.

And even that, they still really aren't reacting to the competition in Orlando, instead they rest on their laurels. Oh yea, that's right, to combat Potter they bring back the orange bird... That will show Universal LoL...

 

[RSoxNo1]

That is doubtful.

I thought ToT and RnRC were reactions to IoA. As was DAK.

TOT and DAK opened before IOA, RnRC a few months later. Disney had heard that IOA would have 3 coasters on opening day as well as Spiderman and were ready to build Beastly Kingdom, Mission Space and a project in DHS and MK if needed. IOA didn't hurt Disney at all at the beginning so they just went with Mission Space. Then as the story goes, Disney execs made their way over to IOA to see that the Imagineers that they let go went over to Universal Creative and brought the concept of a Dragon themed Coaster with them. That, more or less put to bed any hope of Beastly Kingdom as we know it.