AVATAR land - the specifics

[TalkingHead]

I like Universal as much as anyone, but I think ET--especially the end--is embarrassing. So much so that the only reason I'd ride it is to laugh at the LSD planet ET's family lives on. (Helps if you've had a few drinks, kinda like the Mexico boat ride at Epcot.)

ET's planet is just so lame and uninspired that it's the primary thing I'm left remembering. I'd say on art design alone Small World is superior. If they'd dust off the props in Pan, it would probably be the best.

But I see ET as one of the early Universal rides where they were poorly trying to copy the Disney model. Their more recent rides seem to go their own way, which is a good thing IMO.

 

[td1129]

If you don't even hold the classic Fantasyland dark rides in high esteem I just wonder why you would spend time on a forum called wdwmagic.

 

[bubbles1812]

If you don't even hold the classic Fantasyland dark rides in high esteem I just wonder why you would spend time on a forum called wdwmagic.

I never got that he was saying that he doesn't hold Pan in high esteem...just that he thinks ET is superior. There is a difference there. I didn't seem him trashing Pan. Just sayin'. I love Pan by the way. I don't like ET very much but that's because I never liked the movie all that much so it isn't exactly something I'm raring to go on.

 

[TalkingHead]

If you don't even hold the classic Fantasyland dark rides in high esteem I just wonder why you would spend time on a forum called wdwmagic.

To be sure, as lame as I think ET is, the Fantasyland dark rides could be a lot better. MK's Pan is inferior to DL's. MK's Pooh is inferior to Tokyo's. Small World isn't a dark ride. And Snow White's closed.

And obviously TDO didn't hold the classic Fantasyland dark ride "Snow White's Adventures" in high esteem since they just closed it.

 

[spacemt354]

To be sure, as lame as I think ET is, the Fantasyland dark rides could be a lot better. MK's Pan is inferior to DL's. MK's Pooh is inferior to Tokyo's. Small World isn't a dark ride. And Snow White's closed.

And obviously TDO didn't hold the classic Fantasyland dark ride "Snow White's Adventures" in high esteem since they just closed it.

I agree with all that you had said. The DL dark rides are far better than the ones in the Magic Kingdom. I like that they have Roger Rabbit, Pinocchio, Mr. Toad, Alice in Wonderland, and all the others that MK has in better form, imo. I just hope the TLM dark ride offers something better than the one in DCA. But even with that DL dark rides take the cake for me as well.

 

[Tom]

How did "Disney" botch that?

He was head of the project, if something was wrong in the design or execution he alone has the blame.

I'm a few pages late in replying, but I just got home.

Just because he was the lead doesn't mean he was the one responsible for creating a working Yeti. Joe's not an engineer. He's an artist, visionary, creative genius...not a mechanic.

He was told he was getting a giant working Yeti, so he promoted the heck out of it, rightfully so. But, just like Disney botched Dumbo by letting it open with scraping knees, they to ultimately failed by building a faulty Yeti.

The Yeti's issues are not Joe's fault. He gave them the concept, spent a year of his life, or more, researching and creating a 100% authentic attraction, only to have the keystone element fail in an epic manner, after he was seen by TV audiences while he touted the incredible experience the Yeti would offer.

In short, not only was Joe not alone to carry the blame, but he has very little (or nothing) to do with the failure.

 

[Lee]

I never got that he was saying that he doesn't hold Pan in high esteem...just that he thinks ET is superior. There is a difference there. I didn't seem him trashing Pan. Just sayin'. I love Pan by the way. I don't like ET very much but that's because I never liked the movie all that much so it isn't exactly something I'm raring to go on.

Of course I'm not trashing Pan. Its fine for what it is, a simple dark ride and a Disney classic.
I don't find it impressive in any way, though. I maybe ride it once in every 7 or 8 visits to MK, and only with a FP or a super short stand-by.
ET, to me, is a superior ride in every sense.

Maybe because I'm of the generation that remembers well when ET (the film) came out and was totally blown away by it.

 

[ChrisFL]

I like Universal as much as anyone, but I think ET--especially the end--is embarrassing. So much so that the only reason I'd ride it is to laugh at the LSD planet ET's family lives on. (Helps if you've had a few drinks, kinda like the Mexico boat ride at Epcot.)

ET's planet is just so lame and uninspired that it's the primary thing I'm left remembering. I'd say on art design alone Small World is superior. If they'd dust off the props in Pan, it would probably be the best.

But I see ET as one of the early Universal rides where they were poorly trying to copy the Disney model. Their more recent rides seem to go their own way, which is a good thing IMO.

I disagree, I think ET is one of the greatest attractions Universal ever created. Yes, they took the Peter Pan model even flying over a city...and bumped it up a few notches, while creating a whole unique storyline and style which is risky as is...(look at Nemo and Friends at Epcot where they just copy the EXACT same storyline and characters). Is it a bit trippy? Sure, but I still think the kids like it.

 

[dxwwf3]

I personally love ET, but it needs a refurbishment (NOT a replacement) badly. Especially the beginning of the ride. Actually everything before you take flight needs to be brought up to date in the worst way. The ET planet stuff still works really well for me.

 

[ChrisM]

Except if you go to a certain place on Flower St in Glendale, then you would be able to see some ride testing going on.

Well now, this seems interesting. Any more detail to share?

 

[xdan0920]

I get that.
But, I'm curious. In what way do you Peter Pan superior to ET? Ride system? Show elemets? Queue? Overall quality?

Not speaking for @disneyrcks , But I think they main difference is "magic". Peter Pan, to some people has a magical feeling that ET can not duplicate. It's not about ride systems, or show elements, but more the feeling of getting on Pan. Personally, when I was younger, and had less theme park experience, I would have been right there with those saying PP trounces ET. But having ridden both in the past couple years, with less of a emotional investment in WDW, I agree ET, is a higher quality attraction.

 

[MerlinTheGoat]

Peter Pan at WDW used to be among my favorites. Until I visited Disneyland Paris and was spoiled by that version being essentially superior. WDW's could use a major overhaul to bring it up to present day standards with what is being offered at other Disneyland parks. It deserves such attention too, still a very fun ride that would be great when up to spec with modern tech.

Having grown up with ET along with Peter Pan (movies), I feel it has just as much magic as the Disney classic. Maybe moreso. The movie is still adored to this day and all. I can easily see people preferring ET the ride to Peter Pan as well. Nothing wrong with that. Hell, many people actually don't like the movie Peter Pan. The feeling though is still fun, even if the ride itself is incredibly outdated and in need of serious updating to bring it up to par with other versions of the ride.

Droomvlucht (aka Dreamflight) at the Efteling theme park in the Netherlands also looks like a great "flying" type ride as well. I've never had the privilege of visiting myself but it looks awesome.

 

[SleepingMonk]

In short, not only was Joe not alone to carry the blame, but he has very little (or nothing) to do with the failure.

Taking the lead role in a project means you're ultimately responsible for both the success and the failure of the finished product.

A failure that big goes straight to the top, no blaming the little guys.

 

[Bairstow]

Hm. Only having seen the video I'm not that impressed. Everything is pretty, but other than that and some of the detail put into it, what else is there here?



Also, maybe I'm missing something but the Paris version seems like a direct clone of the Florida Peter Pan ride, albeit with some fiber optics on the ship (a very nice addition!) and down in the London cityscape. I was kind of hoping for proper swordfighting but no such luck.

 

[RSoxNo1]

Where do you people come from?

A little place called, Reality.

I also wonder if he has even ridden E.T...

I've been on ET at least a dozen times. Have you been on anything in Fantasyland?

I will argue that PhilharMagic is a better attraction than ET, but that's it.

If you don't even hold the classic Fantasyland dark rides in high esteem I just wonder why you would spend time on a forum called wdwmagic.

Honestly, I guess I'm just not a traditional Disney fan, but I really don't like the classic dark rides that much in Florida or California. When I go with my wife, for a 5 day trip, we're likely only going on the Fantasyland attractions once at most. Comparatively, I went on Little Mermaid 2 or 3 times on my last 3 day trip to California. I think when it opens it will be the best ride in Fantasyland.

I never got that he was saying that he doesn't hold Pan in high esteem...just that he thinks ET is superior. There is a difference there. I didn't seem him trashing Pan. Just sayin'. I love Pan by the way. I don't like ET very much but that's because I never liked the movie all that much so it isn't exactly something I'm raring to go on.

I'll trash Peter Pan... It's the most overrated attraction in all of Disney World.

 

[Tom]

Of course I'm not trashing Pan. Its fine for what it is, a simple dark ride and a Disney classic.
I don't find it impressive in any way, though. I maybe ride it once in every 7 or 8 visits to MK, and only with a FP or a super short stand-by.
ET, to me, is a superior ride in every sense.

Maybe because I'm of the generation that remembers well when ET (the film) came out and was totally blown away by it.

Currently, I would rank Pan as the best dark ride in FL (including when SWSA was open), simply because it's the only one with any ingenuity, and three dimensional sets. Of the two, I'd experience Philharmagic over Pan, but those are about the only two things left in FL that interest me (and like you said, Lee, only if I have a FP for Pan).

I will argue that PhilharMagic is a better attraction than ET, but that's it.

Honestly, I guess I'm just not a traditional Disney fan, but I really don't like the classic dark rides that much in Florida or California. When I go with my wife, for a 5 day trip, we're likely only going on the Fantasyland attractions once at most. Comparatively, I went on Little Mermaid 2 or 3 times on my last 3 day trip to California. I think when it opens it will be the best ride in Fantasyland.

I'll trash Peter Pan... It's the most overrated attraction in all of Disney World.

Philmarmagic better than ET? I'm torn there. ET is quite an elaborate attraction, and is actually a ride...so really, it's hard to fairly compare them. I enjoy Philharmagic (especially since it's about the only attraction on property that pays any tribute to true Disney characters), but ET is on a whole other level.

Dark rides are boring me more and more as I age. Pooh and SWSA (RIP) bore(d) me, and the ride duration just isn't worth the wait they have. Haunted Mansion is top notch. I expect that I'll enjoy LM when it opens, and will likely forego more things in "old FL" once it opens.

Regarding ET (since we're so far off topic, all hope is lost), I agree that it needs some serious help in the pre-show department. I rode it once when I was 8 or 10, but the second time was a few months ago. The pre-show is SOOOO dated, and the whole "name" thing (while extremely advanced and novel in its day) is just silly, and adds to the wait.

They need to adjust the lighting, update the audio (since you can't even hear your name anymore), and throw some actual animation into their characters. Most of them just have moving mouths, none of which were sync'd with the audio at all.

 

[MerlinTheGoat]

Hm. Only having seen the video I'm not that impressed. Everything is pretty, but other than that and some of the detail put into it, what else is there here?

Also, maybe I'm missing something but the Paris version seems like a direct clone of the Florida Peter Pan ride, albeit with some fiber optics on the ship (a very nice addition!) and down in the London cityscape. I was kind of hoping for proper swordfighting but no such luck.

It's difficult to convey why Peter Pan is better in Paris using just a video. But better quality scenes is one of the things. The animatronics have much better movement for one thing, and the scenes overall just look better designed. The flight through show scenes feels more natural and spread out, overall pace feels better thought out as well. Besides that yes the effects are also great. IMO never under estimate fiber optics and water reflection effects on skull rock. Just the little details that make the ride feel of higher quality. Seeing the pirate ship light up at the end is something that I will never forget, pure magic when I rode it as a child and something I never expected. There's fiber optics in the other scenes as well, including the Mermaid Lagoon at the end. Everything just looks so much better overall.

The flight over the island of Neverland is quite stunning and feels FAR more like you're actually flying overhead from a great distance. The sense of scale in WDW's just feels off. On one hand you're made to feel like you're flying over Neverland, but that sense of scale is ruined due to the odd size of the characters. I just don't think the forced perspective style works too well with this ride due to how close you are to all the characters and sets and with all the different angles you can see them in. Paris and Disneyland both dedicate a singular show scene JUST for flying over the massive island itself and it really feels like you're incredibly high up. No ridiculously big characters there to mess up the scale of it all. The other scenes all get their own dedicated rooms and it feels much more natural and less of a clustered mess where they tried to cram too many scenes into one room. It's just better design overall.

Not to mention the ride system itself which is a bit different than WDW's. The pirate ships actually stop at the queue to load and unload, they're not constantly in movement like WDW's. The way the vehicles move inside the rooms feels smoother (different and newer tech i'm assuming, or maybe because when I rode it the ride was relatively new) and more like you're actually flying, I think there might even be some speed variation here and there to enhance that sensation. I'd even say there's a hint of a thrill element. Hard to describe this just by words or videos. And in the more technical side of things, the vehicles all have two rows for guests instead of one, which increases capacity (not really a quality thing but it would probably improve the lines at WDW to adopt Paris' ride system).

I still really love Pan at WDW, I simply got spoiled with an overall superior version. Sadly this is usually apparently the case with visiting other Disney parks around the globe, WDW rarely if ever gets the best version of a duplicate ride.

Droomvlucht (Dreamflight) doesn't seem have any sort of special ride system (though the ending where you spiral down the last room at a faster pace looks pretty fun), it's just an incredibly cool looking ride with tons of charm and detail packed into the scenes. The videos speak for themselves here, just a really well designed ride overall. I'd say detail wise it very arguably beats many of the classic Fantasyland rides (most of which also don't have any sort of standout ride systems anyways). It's also very cool that it conveys such a sense of charm without being based on any sort of popular movie or whatever. It's sort of its own self contained experience (the scenes even remind me slightly of the original Imagination's fantasy room).

 

[Lee]

I will argue that PhilharMagic is a better attraction than ET, but that's it.

That's all.
Just...

 

[jt04]

Have you been on anything in Fantasyland?

I will argue that PhilharMagic is a better attraction than ET, but that's it.

I'll trash Peter Pan... It's the most overrated attraction in all of Disney World.

1) That is a 'loaded' question.

2) Hopefully something in that space will be someday.

3) Unfortunately it is slowly. But sometimes when they neglect an attraction it is because the have longer range plans. Hmmmm.

 

[spacemt354]

It's the most overrated attraction in all of Disney World.

Ah thank you. I always believed that. Don't get me wrong I like the ride, but it is never worth the 60 minute wait that the attraction produces. Only if we get a fastpass do we ride it.

And this is just a general question. But was there ever a dark ride in the space that Phillarmagic is in today? From google earth the building looks about the same size as Pooh and the old SWSA. I know there used to be a Lion King show in there beforehand but I didn't know if the infrastructure of the building was capable of holding a dark ride.