Are you 23?

[Captain Chaos]

I'm really sorry. Really. I kinda feel bad that we were debating now. Please forgive me, I hope I didn't bring your spirits any lower.



Agreed. I have thought about sending some PDF's from the Facebook page into TWDC.

Again, sorry.

You didn't and this dumb debate didn't.... What brought me down was she turned to me for some assistance and I can't help her...

 

[imagineer boy]

Whew, this thread's taken a turn for the dramatic. Come on, let's have some smiles and happy faces! Nothing cheers me up more than a video of hakuna matatta backwards! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hvUMZMylI4k

 

[imamouse]

I’ve been trying to work up an analogy for the disappointment with [the hopefully incomplete] D23. Matpez, EPCOT Explorer, TP2000, etc – feel free to help me out. I hope I don't, but fear I might slobber all over it the first time around. This analogy is based on the possibility that not all D23 components may have been announced yet, so the fee to join is taken at face value of what has been announced.

What if you went to a really nice restaurant for what was advertized as a fabulous meal that anyone who frequented the restaurant would be thrilled to eat. You arrive. The décor is elegant. The maître d' is gracious. The menu is artistic, but all it lists is a complete meal (appetizer, entrée, side item and dessert) for one price (let’s use $75 to keep things simple). Here’s the rub – the menu provides a list of mouth-watering appetizers, but under ‘entrees’ the only thing listed is “beef,” side items say “seasonal” and desserts are “chef’s surprise.”

Now, this is a nice restaurant, so you expect that “beef” means filet mignon, but what if it’s not? “Beef” could be anything from Chateaubriand to hamburger. I bet you’d be happy to be served the Chateaubriand, but pretty disappointed to shell out $75 for a hamburger dinner. What if the seasonal side item is Brussels sprouts? I personally love Brussels sprouts, but what if a majority of the diners don’t care for them? And what about dessert? No one knows what it is until it comes out of the kitchen. What if the dessert something you really dislike (in my case that would be anything with raspberries in it)?

Would you be happy with this dining experience? Would you tell all of your friends to go to the same restaurant and take pot luck? Or would you be more willing to pay for and recommend an establishment that discloses exactly what you will be getting for your money?

 

[EpcotServo]

Sure you did. All you (the '46'ers) do is complain about what isn't offered. The magazine isn't good enough, the other stuff (which you dont even know what it is) isn't good enough, etc etc. Everything they add won't be good enough, because you'll find something wrong with it.

We get it, you don't like it. So then ignore it already.

Nah, that's not it at all.


I just made fun of 23 and it turned into a club for the cool kids.

If any Bullies or Teacher's Pets don't like it, I'm not drumming up any sympathy cause' we Geeks stick together.




All I can say is that if, regardless of what you think about 23, you would rather spend $75 dollars on something cooler or more "wicked" awesome, be that a Limited Edition DVD Copy of Mad Max: Beyond Thunderdome or 75 cups of Coffee, you're more than welcome to join us over on Desolation Row...

(Also if you see the Riot Squads and they look restless and need somewhere to go, you can send them over here too.)

:wave:

 

[E-Ride Night]

I'm so glad I joined!

 

[The Mom]

Another discussion has crossed a line and become a debate, with a few insults thrown in. Please stop now, and do not start again in the future.

Do not turn any more discussion threads into debates; if you want to continue arguing, please do it in private. Thank you.

 

[GothMickey]

Maybe I can just add one suggestion.... And I am not trying to be rude or going on a tirade.. After this I am not posting until I am feeling better, but, maybe the complaining shouldn't be online here or on facebook.. Maybe, you all should, maybe we ALL should contact Disney and voice disappointment... Just cause people don't join, doesn't mean they get it.. Voices are always louder than words.. I bet, I just bet that they would listen intently to the concerns because they don't want this to be a failure...

Dude, you totally went off :lol:. But I like your idea of writing and contacting Disney. I don't think we would get anywhere complaining on a message board. Heck, even I could complain about the price. I like it dxer. Tell your friend I wish her the best. And cheer up. Things will be ok.

 

[Matpez]

And then something went terribly wrong...

http://miceage.micechat.com/allutz/al031709a.htm

While the total secrecy of D23 prior to its launch was extremely successful and most impressive in this online era, it seems to have been all downhill from there when it comes to timing, planning, and simply knowing where to find their audience. That's a shame because the Walt Disney Company really needs to do something for their most loyal customers.
Let's hope they keep trying.

And a lot more thoughtful insight... :wave:

 

[WDWFigment]

I’ve been trying to work up an analogy for the disappointment with [the hopefully incomplete] D23. Matpez, EPCOT Explorer, TP2000, etc – feel free to help me out. I hope I don't, but fear I might slobber all over it the first time around. This analogy is based on the possibility that not all D23 components may have been announced yet, so the fee to join is taken at face value of what has been announced.

What if you went to a really nice restaurant for what was advertized as a fabulous meal that anyone who frequented the restaurant would be thrilled to eat. You arrive. The décor is elegant. The maître d' is gracious. The menu is artistic, but all it lists is a complete meal (appetizer, entrée, side item and dessert) for one price (let’s use $75 to keep things simple). Here’s the rub – the menu provides a list of mouth-watering appetizers, but under ‘entrees’ the only thing listed is “beef,” side items say “seasonal” and desserts are “chef’s surprise.”

Now, this is a nice restaurant, so you expect that “beef” means filet mignon, but what if it’s not? “Beef” could be anything from Chateaubriand to hamburger. I bet you’d be happy to be served the Chateaubriand, but pretty disappointed to shell out $75 for a hamburger dinner. What if the seasonal side item is Brussels sprouts? I personally love Brussels sprouts, but what if a majority of the diners don’t care for them? And what about dessert? No one knows what it is until it comes out of the kitchen. What if the dessert something you really dislike (in my case that would be anything with raspberries in it)?

Would you be happy with this dining experience? Would you tell all of your friends to go to the same restaurant and take pot luck? Or would you be more willing to pay for and recommend an establishment that discloses exactly what you will be getting for your money?

I think this is a pretty apt analogy. I can anticipate the response will be, "why not wait to see the finished product, wait to see what they are going to offer."

To respond to that, Disney should have released a finished product. Haven't they learned from the fan community's responses when they 'release' incomplete products? (Take a look at the "All EPCOT..." thread for an idea). Honestly, I believe this is the finished product. They didn't disclose the exact details of some of the perks, because they are better off leaving them vague, because the exact details would disappoint. "Special Archive Commemorative Gift" sounds a lot better than "D23 pencil," so they go with the former. This a pretty common marketing strategy, so I'm not getting my hopes up.

I understand Disney is a publicly traded company seeking profits. I'm just disappointed that they dress up an attempt at profiting as "giving back to the fans." Nothing is being given back here. I'll spend less than half the price, and finally pick up a subscription to Tales from the Laughing Place. To each his own, I suppose. :shrug:

 

[Animaniac93-98]

Al's article was great but it makes me ask a few questions and address a few points:

- Was there any button handing out or advertising of any kind at any place in WDW or any local Disney Stores like at DLR? It's nice they did something on The View but elsewhere outside of Anaheim was there much advertising?

- Loved the point on the certain HSM stars pretending to be animated charactres. I already mentioned this but it seems like a poor attempt to please multiple different crowds at the same time. Will someone who wnats a Song of the South cell care about Zac Efron? Yesterland guy's point on there begin multiple Disney fans is perfect. I'm sure not every Disney fan likes The Black Hole, will watch much of Disney channel's current content or want to ride It's a Small World. Making one club for everybody/everything is ridiculous. Especially when you only care to appeal to SoCal residents.

- I fully agree with the what you see is what you get attitude towards the offerings. If after 2 years of planning Disney still isn't ready to announce the deails, they shouldn't have started. Taking the extra time to think over and perhaps discuss with a select few Disney fans the offerings might have been a better idea.

 

[MousDad]

Pretty interesting read. I especially liked Werner's take.

 

[Phonedave]

Dave ... there is nothing wrong with the term fanboy (or spelling it the way my pals at WDI do ... ) ... just to set the record straight.

It isn't demeaning ... it isn't a nasty term ... it is no different than terms like Trekkers for Star Trek fans or Cheeseheads for Green Bay Packers fans.

I know political correctness became en vogue a decade plus ago, but c'mon ... let's not take it to an asburd degree.

The derisive monikers for fans (at least at WDI) are 'foamers' and 'Walties' ... just an FYI!

Regardless of what the term means to the people at WDI, a simple read though some of the message here clearly shows it has a negative connotation. Or at least a connotation of one who is wear glasses so rosy they cannot see anything except sunshine and rainbows in Dinsey.

From Wikipedia (lord its come to this, I am using Wikipedia as a reference)

Fanboy is a term used to describe any individual who is devoted to a single subject in an emotional or fanatical manner, or to a single point of view within that subject, often to the point where it is considered an obsession.

In the common parlance, it carries a sense of obsession and of blind love for the thing the person is a fan of.

I'll try and not take that as a shot ... and I'll offer up this opinion as to why there's not much 'intelligent discussion' going on right now about WDW.

Simple.

What is there to talk about anymore? There's not anything substantive new or exciting now or on the horizon.

Look at how many pages here on D23, which whether you love it, hate it or generally have no real feelings isn't worthy of all the posts.

But if not D23 what? DVC construction? Space Mountain's redo? Stitch's stage construction?

Disney isn't giving fans in FLA that much to talk about ... if you've got something you'd like to talk about by all means start a thread or just turn this one in that direction.

I don't have any new material ... I am just looking forward to getting back to DL and DLP shortly and making it to TDL for the first time later this year ... but I really don't intend to start a thread about my future trips.

So any suggestions?

~Disney Boredom~

Nope, not a shot. In fact I have had some of the more intellegent discussion with you in the past. While you and I don't always agree, we both seem to have real world experence in both business and life in general.

It seems that many have jumped on this "put down D23" bandwagon because it seems what all the cool kids are doing. Maybe they have become D64 Fanbois.

You are right though, there really has not been much to talk about comming out of TWDC as of late. Especially in the parks department.

I will even go so far as to agree that D23 is not much to talk about. It's really a blip on the radar and a PR failure. I joined it because it looked interesting and the price was not a roadblock (to me). Plain and simple, thats it. I didn't join because I am a fanboy, I didn't join because i have blinders on, and I didn't join because of some strange idea that it makes me elite.

So, lets pick a new subject. Somthing a little less loaded. Ideas anyone ?

-dave

 

[jakeman]

I will even go so far as to agree that D23 is not much to talk about. It's really a blip on the radar and a PR failure. I joined it because it looked interesting and the price was not a roadblock (to me). Plain and simple, thats it. I didn't join because I am a fanboy, I didn't join because i have blinders on, and I didn't join because of some strange idea that it makes me elite.

So, lets pick a new subject. Somthing a little less loaded. Ideas anyone ?

-dave

The sinkhole under Horizons? :lookaroun

With all the going back and forth in this thread, I think that is the conclusion that most rational people have come to. It's a great idea, but at the present time does not offer much.

I'm hopeful though that it will be better in the near future.

 

[Phonedave]

or 75 cups of Coffee,

I need to start buying coffee where you do. A buck a cup would be a bargin

-dave

 

[Pumbas Nakasak]

Rational people.........on a fan board.......... whatever next?

 

[Phonedave]

I’ve been trying to work up an analogy for the disappointment with [the hopefully incomplete] D23. Matpez, EPCOT Explorer, TP2000, etc – feel free to help me out. I hope I don't, but fear I might slobber all over it the first time around. This analogy is based on the possibility that not all D23 components may have been announced yet, so the fee to join is taken at face value of what has been announced.

What if you went to a really nice restaurant for what was advertized as a fabulous meal that anyone who frequented the restaurant would be thrilled to eat. You arrive. The décor is elegant. The maître d' is gracious. The menu is artistic, but all it lists is a complete meal (appetizer, entrée, side item and dessert) for one price (let’s use $75 to keep things simple). Here’s the rub – the menu provides a list of mouth-watering appetizers, but under ‘entrees’ the only thing listed is “beef,” side items say “seasonal” and desserts are “chef’s surprise.”

Now, this is a nice restaurant, so you expect that “beef” means filet mignon, but what if it’s not? “Beef” could be anything from Chateaubriand to hamburger. I bet you’d be happy to be served the Chateaubriand, but pretty disappointed to shell out $75 for a hamburger dinner. What if the seasonal side item is Brussels sprouts? I personally love Brussels sprouts, but what if a majority of the diners don’t care for them? And what about dessert? No one knows what it is until it comes out of the kitchen. What if the dessert something you really dislike (in my case that would be anything with raspberries in it)?

Would you be happy with this dining experience? Would you tell all of your friends to go to the same restaurant and take pot luck? Or would you be more willing to pay for and recommend an establishment that discloses exactly what you will be getting for your money?

Pretty good analogy. Let's add to it bit. For that $75 pre fixe dinner you also get 4 glasses of wine at $16 a peice. Now some people like wine, some don't. Some will argue that anyone who pays over $5 a glass for wine is crazy. Others will say that they enjoy wine, and will spend $15 - $20 for a glass that interests them.

So now you have a decision to make. Do you go into this restaruant, and pay $75 to be able to drink $64 worth of wine, in a nice atmosphere, and get your "mystery dinner" or do you decide to pass it up until you know what the dinner is. Maybe this place also has some amazing a la carte items that you could get by going in, or if you really wanted them and did not want to eat in the dining room, you could buy them through a middle man out of the delivery door in the back.

I say, its up to the individual. Some people like wine, some dont. Some are happy getting their wine down the street at the bar with a discount card, others want it delivered to their table. Some people are happy getting the a la carte items in the alley in a styrofoam take away tray. Others want them at a table. All choices for all different people.

What I don't do (and thats I as in me and me alone) is create a mock up of the restaruant down the street. Claim that I am the one-true-dining-critic and deride all others who do not come into my place and instead choose - for whatever reason - to eat at the first place.

If I don't want to eat there I don't. I may indicate to the management of that place that perhaps some changes would bring in more diners. But i would not deride the people who are eating there.

-dave

 

[EPCOT Explorer]

I’ve been trying to work up an analogy for the disappointment with [the hopefully incomplete] D23. Matpez, EPCOT Explorer, TP2000, etc – feel free to help me out. I hope I don't, but fear I might slobber all over it the first time around. This analogy is based on the possibility that not all D23 components may have been announced yet, so the fee to join is taken at face value of what has been announced.

What if you went to a really nice restaurant for what was advertized as a fabulous meal that anyone who frequented the restaurant would be thrilled to eat. You arrive. The décor is elegant. The maître d' is gracious. The menu is artistic, but all it lists is a complete meal (appetizer, entrée, side item and dessert) for one price (let’s use $75 to keep things simple). Here’s the rub – the menu provides a list of mouth-watering appetizers, but under ‘entrees’ the only thing listed is “beef,” side items say “seasonal” and desserts are “chef’s surprise.”

Now, this is a nice restaurant, so you expect that “beef” means filet mignon, but what if it’s not? “Beef” could be anything from Chateaubriand to hamburger. I bet you’d be happy to be served the Chateaubriand, but pretty disappointed to shell out $75 for a hamburger dinner. What if the seasonal side item is Brussels sprouts? I personally love Brussels sprouts, but what if a majority of the diners don’t care for them? And what about dessert? No one knows what it is until it comes out of the kitchen. What if the dessert something you really dislike (in my case that would be anything with raspberries in it)?

Would you be happy with this dining experience? Would you tell all of your friends to go to the same restaurant and take pot luck? Or would you be more willing to pay for and recommend an establishment that discloses exactly what you will be getting for your money?

Well said! That's exactly the problem...All style, no substance.

 

[EpcotServo]

Rational people.........on a fan board.......... whatever next?

:lol:

 

[Animaniac93-98]

If Disney had any plans to extend or add any benefits later, would it not make scene to hint at them now? They don't have to be specific but saying something like "Discounts on park experiences!" or "exclusive film titles form the vault!" might generate more excitement/interest than keeping quiet, and waiting to see what happens. It's this reluctance to even hint at anything (which doesn't exist in other Disney clubs) which makes me think that there isn't much this fan club has to offer.

We may not all agree on the value or content, but I think we can all agree that they could do with some new/different people or ideas in marketing for this.

 

[EPCOT Explorer]

If Disney had any plans to extend or add any benefits later, would it not make scene to hint at them now? They don't have to be specific but saying something like "Discounts on park experiences!" or "exclusive film titles form the vault!" might generate more excitement/interest than keeping quiet, and waiting to see what happens. It's this reluctance to even hint at anything (which doesn't exist in other Disney clubs) which makes me think that there isn't much this fan club has to offer.

We may not all agree on the value or content, but I think we can all agree that they could do with some new/different people or ideas in marketing for this.

Exactly, the fact alone that they are not doing that speaks wonders.

And yep, this started out great...and the petered out.




A