News Another Fight at Magic Kingdom

zombiebbq

Well-Known Member
Nobody is forcing anyone to go anywhere, the point I'm trying to make is that when you pay premium prices, you expect premium service. Watching the fireworks is part of the "Disney experience", and the only way to get MK is through a ferry or a monorail that packs people in tight.

I agree with you here. Not so much that it excuses bad behavior, because it doesn't, but it can help explain it. Premium prices for an increasingly diminished service, massive crowds, visits that are becoming more and more complicated... add in oppressive heat and some booze and it's a wonder there aren't fist fights every day.

(Editing to add - @Kip Krusty summed it up nicely)
 
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LittleBuford

Well-Known Member
Are we to believe that such fights would happen less if Disney were cheaper and thus (from some people’s perspective) better value for money? Crowds and the Florida heat are an unavoidable part of the experience, which leaves cost as the only real variable.
 

zombiebbq

Well-Known Member
Are we to believe that such fights would happen less if Disney were cheaper and thus (from some people’s perspective) better value for money? Crowds and the Florida heat are an unavoidable part of the experience, which leaves cost as the only real variable.
I look at it holistically - It's not just the increasing cost, or the crowds, or the heat. It's all of that put together. I think especially now given how complex a visit is with genie plus and lightning lanes and magic bands and special after hours events...people are more stressed to make the most of a trip.
 

LittleBuford

Well-Known Member
I look at it holistically - It's not just the increasing cost, or the crowds, or the heat. It's all of that put together. I think especially now given how complex a visit is with genie plus and lightning lanes and magic bands and special after hours events...people are more stressed to make the most of a trip.
Let’s imagine that Disney removed all line-skipping systems and just had everyone wait in the standby queues, which many here have argued would be the fairest, least stressful way. Do you really believe that such fights would happen less? And let’s also imagine that Disney slashed its prices as well as converting all its queues to standby. Would that reduce the amount of unruly behaviour?

Barring a massive increase in capacity, I think the only measure that could make the parks less triggering for those with aggressive tendencies would be to prevent crowding altogether by capping visitor numbers. That’s clearly never going to happen.
 

flynnibus

Premium Member
Are we to believe that such fights would happen less if Disney were cheaper and thus (from some people’s perspective) better value for money? Crowds and the Florida heat are an unavoidable part of the experience, which leaves cost as the only real variable.

Your confusing instigators with root causes...

The instigators like heat, fiscal concerns, etc lead to STRESS
Pressure to meet goals or expectations lead to STRESS
Instigators like duration, heat, distances lead to FATIGUE
Frustration can arise from things like repetition, disappointment, etc

These factors combine and set people off. So root causes are more like Stress, Fatigue, sentiment.

Someone who is fatigued, but happy or satisfied is less likely to snap vs someone who is fatigued but also frustrated.

That's why it's talked about where the culmination of things can lead to people acting out, even if out of character. Extenuating factors like fatigue and stress can cause people to act out.

The primary thing that people are talking about is how the current Disney experience is leading to more stress. Factors like expense, scale, expectations, all create more pressure and stress on people.

Pressure and stress should not be things associated with VACATIONING. A concept Disney Parks has forgotten and instead created the idea that people should just buy their way out of the fear of missing out or lower experience. "Just buy these upsells so you don't have to worry about it.. " which in turn just creates more pressure for expectations and the potential for more stress due to the financial burden the experience now represents.

Coaching people to pay more to avoid problems creates higher expectations. So when you fail to meet those expectations (like long lines even though you paid for a line reducing feature) you have amplified the reactions people will get.


TLDR - Disney is contributing to the problem by failing expectations and then monetizing (and increasing people's burden->stress) the opportunity to improve it's experience.
 

LittleBuford

Well-Known Member
Your confusing instigators with root causes...

The instigators like heat, fiscal concerns, etc lead to STRESS
Pressure to meet goals or expectations lead to STRESS
Instigators like duration, heat, distances lead to FATIGUE
Frustration can arise from things like repetition, disappointment, etc

These factors combine and set people off. So root causes are more like Stress, Fatigue, sentiment.

Someone who is fatigued, but happy or satisfied is less likely to snap vs someone who is fatigued but also frustrated.

That's why it's talked about where the culmination of things can lead to people acting out, even if out of character. Extenuating factors like fatigue and stress can cause people to act out.

The primary thing that people are talking about is how the current Disney experience is leading to more stress. Factors like expense, scale, expectations, all create more pressure and stress on people.

Pressure and stress should not be things associated with VACATIONING. A concept Disney Parks has forgotten and instead created the idea that people should just buy their way out of the fear of missing out or lower experience. "Just buy these upsells so you don't have to worry about it.. " which in turn just creates more pressure for expectations and the potential for more stress due to the financial burden the experience now represents.

Coaching people to pay more to avoid problems creates higher expectations. So when you fail to meet those expectations (like long lines even though you paid for a line reducing feature) you have amplified the reactions people will get.


TLDR - Disney is contributing to the problem by failing expectations and then monetizing (and increasing people's burden->stress) the opportunity to improve it's experience.
Please see my follow-up just above your post.

I would also add that reasonable people don’t start fistfights with others, no matter how stressful they may find their expensive theme-park holiday (talk about first-world problems!).
 
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flynnibus

Premium Member
Let’s imagine that Disney removed all line-skipping systems and just had everyone wait in the standby queues, which many here have argued would be the fairest, least stressful way. Do you really believe that such fights would happen less?

You're missing the forrest for the trees.

What matters is 'would all those people be satisfied with their experience'? No one likes lines, but are they satisfied Disney is doing things to make it better and tolerable?

Monetizing solutions doesn't create satisfaction in the those left out - it creates resentment.
 

LittleBuford

Well-Known Member
You're missing the forrest for the trees.

What matters is 'would all those people be satisfied with their experience'? No one likes lines, but are they satisfied Disney is doing things to make it better and tolerable?

Monetizing solutions doesn't create satisfaction in the those left out - it creates resentment.
You and others are essentially arguing that Disney needs to appease those guests who erupt into anger and violence when stressed. In my view, it’s up to the guests themselves to regulate their behaviour.
 

flynnibus

Premium Member
You and others are essentially arguing that Disney needs to appease those guests who erupt into anger and violence when stressed

I have no idea how you got an obligation to appease people out of an explanation of what leads to people acting out.

Disney is contributing to the problem - I never said they owe some appeasement to those who snap.

Read more.
 

LittleBuford

Well-Known Member
No-one’s enjoyment of Disney should be so borderline that they are at risk of erupting when things get stressful. Even when stressed at Disney, I am deleriously happy, and that’s as it should be. If Disney is too expensive or too crowded for you, or if you consider the value or service to be subpar, just don’t go.
 
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Incomudro

Well-Known Member
I have no idea how you got an obligation to appease people out of an explanation of what leads to people acting out.

Disney is contributing to the problem - I never said they owe some appeasement to those who snap.

Read more.
I once got into a debate with some people on a Staten Island board over traffic control measures.
My argument was that NYC's measures - lowering prevous speed limits from 30 or 35 mph, to some 30 or even 25 mph everywhere. Red light cameras, speed cameras, speed bumps, and on and on actually exasperated the matter because it frustrates an already frustrated population of drivers.
They feel like they can't get anywhere (they can't) which leads them to take more desperate actions - usually in the form of speeding and making insane maneuvers when they get the opportunity.
I was told "Then they should slow down."
Or "That's no excuse."
It's not an excuse, but we need to recognize things that frustrate and stress an already frustrated and stressed population.
 
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flynnibus

Premium Member
No-one’s enjoyment of Disney should be so borderline that they are at risk of erupting when things get stressful. Even when stressed at Disney, I am deleriously happy, and that’s as it should be. If Disney is too expensive or too crowded for you, or if you consider the value or service to be subpar, just don’t go.
You should really learn to step outside yourself and recognize the constraints or burdens you have are (or don't!) aren't the same as everyone else before you are so dismissive of their situation.
 

LittleBuford

Well-Known Member
You should really learn to step outside yourself and recognize the constraints or burdens you have are (or don't!) aren't the same as everyone else before you are so dismissive of their situation.
I would agree with you entirely if we were talking about situations pertaining to daily or obligatory life. We’re not, though. We’re talking about a very frivolous and avoidable thing indeed: a voluntarily undertaken holiday at an expensive and nortoriously crowded theme park in one of the hottest parts of the country. I can certainly extend my sympathy to those guests who, having never gone before, underestimate the demands and stresses of such a setting, but never to those guests who respond with aggression or violence. They and they alone bear the responsibility for their unreasonable (re)actions.
 

FettFan

Well-Known Member
WDW should partner with a company that sells CBD oil. The guests can partake to chill out.

Put some CBD into the smellitzers alongside the atmospheric scents.

Hungry Disney GIF


Everyone mellows out when they walk past the Main Street Bakery.
 

flynnibus

Premium Member
I would agree with you entirely if we were talking about situations pertaining to daily or obligatory life. We’re not, though. We’re talking about a very frivolous and avoidable thing indeed: a voluntarily undertaken holiday at an expensive and nortoriously crowded theme park in one of the hottest parts of the country. I can certainly extend my sympathy to those guests who, having never gone before, underestimate the demands and stresses of such a setting, but never to those guests who respond with aggression or violence. They and they alone bear the responsibility for their unreasonable (re)actions.
Here's a simple thought for you to ponder...

The complexity and burden for your holiday by yourself or a couple... pales in comparison to the same complexity and burden of coordinating and paying for a holiday of a large family or group.

Your experience or challenges do not necessarily equal the same of another party... even at the same place. So please stop trying to equate your tolerance or burden from Disney to everyones.
 

LittleBuford

Well-Known Member
Here's a simple thought for you to ponder...

The complexity and burden for your holiday by yourself or a couple... pales in comparison to the same complexity and burden of coordinating and paying for a holiday of a large family or group.

Your experience or challenges do not necessarily equal the same of another party... even at the same place. So please stop trying to equate your tolerance or burden from Disney to everyones.
Again, I’m happy to extend my sympathy to those who underestimate and/or struggle with the demands the experience, but not to those who erupt into aggression or violence. If you consider that an unreasonable position to take, then we’ll just have to agree to disagree.
 

flynnibus

Premium Member
Again, I’m happy to extend my sympathy to those who underestimate and/or struggle with the demands the experience, but not to those who erupt into aggression or violence. If you consider that an unreasonable position to take, then we’ll just have to agree to disagree.
Who ever said it was justified or the like?

We were talking about how it's evolving to this. And your judgement of their breaking point or not does not negate those realities and instigators that go into it.
 

LittleBuford

Well-Known Member
Who ever said it was justified or the like?

We were talking about how it's evolving to this. And your judgement of their breaking point or not does not negate those realities and instigators that go into it.
I’ve stated and restated my position multiple times. I think it’s clear what I’m saying, but we seem to be speaking at cross purposes, so I’m moving on.
 

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