News Another Fight at Magic Kingdom

[flynnibus]

This isn't thunderdome. People need to be responsible for their actions. Being hot in a crowded space is no excuse for violence.

It's not an excuse - but one has to acknowledge it's not the same as sitting on your front porch under the ceiling fan either. And that these situations are an accumulation of factors and it's possible TO MAKE THINGS WORSE and not just expect outcomes to be based on the people you put inside a 100 acre box.

 

[flynnibus]

But this isn't something unforseen. Florida is hot, especially in July. And it's going to be very crowded. If those things are going to push you to that point then you shouldn't be there.

So you think the occurrences of these issues is happening uniformly throughout Florida vacation spots?

Or is it Florida is somehow more hot and more crowded this year?

Or that grown adults have recently been altered to be unavoidable traps?

There is nothing changing around these people, you think it's just 'bad people in, bad results out'?

 

[flynnibus]

I am no angel and have snapped plenty, and have been snapped at plenty, but not in the form of violence on either side. The majority are like this. Not everyone, but most.

So were you just a bad person to start with, and your breakdown happened due to what? Or were there other factors involved besides just what person you are?

 

[DryerLintFan]

It's not an excuse - but one has to acknowledge it's not the same as sitting on your front porch under the ceiling fan either. And that these situations are an accumulation of factors and it's possible TO MAKE THINGS WORSE and not just expect outcomes to be based on the people you put inside a 100 acre box.

I'm sorry but no. If you feel your bladder filling up it's your responsibility to find a restroom. The conditions don't matter. You're the one who can feel how your body is feeling, so you're the one who is in charge of taking care of your needs. It's called personal responsibility.

If you're in the parks and you're starting to feel too hot or over stimulated or overwhelmed or tired, it's your personal responsibility to take care of your bodies needs. There are no environmental factors that make it okay attack people.

 

[Californian Elitist]

These fights occur due to either temporary loss of self control or folks lacking decorum/having an attitude.

 

[flynnibus]

I'm sorry but no. If you feel your bladder filling up it's your responsibility to find a restroom. The conditions don't matter. You're the one who can feel how your body is feeling, so you're the one who is in charge of taking care of your needs. It's called personal responsibility.

And what is someone puts you in an area with no bathrooms or very limited bathrooms or undesirable bathrooms - This doesn't alter how people decide when to use the restroom? So if someone finds themselves in an extreme urgency situation.. you just tell blame the person and say 'should have planned better'? There is no obligation for the premise that created that kind of restriction or disincentive for people to use the rest rooms?

The whole point is - it's more than just the one person. You put any one person in different situations, you will get different outcomes! And when those situations are caused by poor choices or selfish ones... there is an element of responsibility for those who created the situation.

It's the exact reason why Restrooms are part of building codes on how much a facility should have at a minimum -- because the facility, not just the individual, have a responsibility to creating a serviceable environment.. not just tell people to take responsibility for their bio-needs.

When Disney fans the flames based on how they drive customer behavior through their product structures and choices... they take some responsibility for the outcomes. Just like a facility faces potential liability for crowd control and facility weakness that lead to accidents.

 

[DryerLintFan]

And what is someone puts you in an area with no bathrooms or very limited bathrooms or undesirable bathrooms - This doesn't alter how people decide when to use the restroom? So if someone finds themselves in an extreme urgency situation.. you just tell blame the person and say 'should have planned better'? There is no obligation for the premise that created that kind of restriction or disincentive for people to use the rest rooms?

The whole point is - it's more than just the one person. You put any one person in different situations, you will get different outcomes! And when those situations are caused by poor choices or selfish ones... there is an element of responsibility for those who created the situation.

It's the exact reason why Restrooms are part of building codes on how much a facility should have at a minimum -- because the facility, not just the individual, have a responsibility to creating a serviceable environment.. not just tell people to take responsibility for their bio-needs.

When Disney fans the flames based on how they drive customer behavior through their product structures and choices... they take some responsibility for the outcomes. Just like a facility faces potential liability for crowd control and facility weakness that lead to accidents.

Nobody is trapped in the parks. Additionally, there are TONS of places within the parks to cool down and take breaks, drink water, decompress, and get away from people. When even those aren't enough for you, LEAVE.

There are no environmental factors that make it okay to attack people.

 

[flynnibus]

There are no environmental factors that make it okay to attack people.

Yet - the history of 'situations bringing out the worst in people' is a well known phenomenon that somehow posters here think doesn't exist.

 

[Vegas Disney Fan]

Pressure and stress should not be things associated with VACATIONING.

I wish this were the case but pressure and stress are very common on almost all our vacations… one of the most stressful experiences of my life was our first trip to Paris, the metro system was overwhelming and trying to get us on the right train nearly caused me to have a full blown panic attack… I didn’t pick a fight with a random stranger though, we sat on a metro bench while I calmed down, we missed the train we were supposed to take but we used the extra 10 minutes to figure out which platform and direction we needed and took the next one. We had an equally stressful situation in Prague when our plane from Paris was delayed and instead of having 3 hours to get to a tour pickup location from the airport we had about 45 minutes, I have no idea what the speed limits are in Prague but I’m pretty sure our cab driver broke them all… it was insanely stressful but he got us there and earned himself a fat tip.

Hawaii is probably the closest I’ve ever come to a first visit stress free vacation, and even that wasn’t stress free, we spent a couple hours in line getting our rental car which cost us our first night of plans.

Disney, even with all it’s problems, is still pretty easy compared to vacationing to new cities.

 

[DryerLintFan]

Yet - the history of 'situations bringing out the worst in people' is a well known phenomenon that somehow posters here think doesn't exist.

If the situation is bringing out the worst in you, it's your job to remove yourself from the situation.

If millions of other people can vacation in the same conditions and not throw down, it's maybe not a good enough excuse.

 

[LittleBuford]

I’m kind of amazed that anyone would think that violence is a predictable outcome of a stressful holiday. Well-adjusted people should find it exceedingly easy not to start punch-ups, even when at their most stressed.

 

[Californian Elitist]

I’m kind of amazed that anyone would think that violence is a predictable outcome of a stressful holiday. Well-adjusted people should find it exceedingly easy not to start punch-ups, even when at their most stressed.

As I was preparing to fly to Germany from Italy a few years ago, I discovered that the airport I was flying into was the wrong airport, and it was a 5-hour drive away from Nuremberg, where I was visiting. Mind you, I realized this just a few hours before I was supposed to leave to head to the airport. I freaked out and instantly became stressed. I was able to figure everything out and still make my trip, thankfully.

The only person I got mad at was myself for not double-checking that I was flying into the correct airport. It was no one else’s fault but my own. And yes, it was also extremely hot. Didn’t punch anyone, though.

 

[flynnibus]

Hawaii is probably the closest I’ve ever come to a first visit stress free vacation, and even that wasn’t stress free, we spent a couple hours in line getting our rental car which cost us our first night of plans.

Disney, even with all it’s problems, is still pretty easy compared to vacationing to new cities.

Notable in your comparisons though.. you're comparing 'when things went wrong' - not just status quo And the stress examples you gave would reduce with familiarity... the stress Disney is creating is more built-into the process.. not something that fades with familiarity.

It's why the majority of our Disney vacations in the last decade have been on DCL - not the parks. If I need a break after my vacation - then it wasn't the relaxing vacation I wanted. If I want to go and experience something.. and go all out doing it.. that's an experience, not a vacation.

Frankly I don't understand how people do the parks more than twice a year.. unless you were comparing seasonal offers.

 

[flynnibus]

If the situation is bringing out the worst in you, it's your job to remove yourself from the situation.

Yet you keep glossing over the point being made. Was that situation even necessary to start? If that situation were entirely avoidable or could be bettered.. but someone chose not to (like the limited bathroom examples)... is there not ownership of that choice?

 

[flynnibus]

I’m kind of amazed that anyone would think that violence is a predictable outcome of a stressful holiday.

I'm kind of amazed that people continue to insert their own words to create strawman arguments. Oh wait.. no I'm not.

 

[LittleBuford]

As I was preparing to fly to Germany from Italy a few years ago, I discovered that the airport I was flying into was the wrong airport, and it was a 5-hour drive away from Nuremberg, where I was visiting. Mind you, I realized this just a few hours before I was supposed to leave to head to the airport. I freaked out and instantly became stressed. I was able to figure everything out and still make my trip, thankfully.

The only person I got mad at was myself for not double-checking that I was flying into the correct airport. It was no one else’s fault but my own. And yes, it was also extremely hot. Didn’t punch anyone, though.

I think most of us can recall similarly stressful situations that got us incredibly flustered but never drove us remotely close to physically lashing out at others. Those who have even the slightest difficulty remaining nonviolent in such situations need to work on their issues before mixing with other people.

 

[DryerLintFan]

Yet you keep glossing over the point being made. Was that situation even necessary to start? If that situation were entirely avoidable or could be bettered.. but someone chose not to (like the limited bathroom examples)... is there not ownership of that choice?

At this point I feel like you're just amusing yourself with repetition. We all get your point, but it's wrong. Disney isn't responsible if the heat and the crowds are so stressful for you that it makes you want to physically punch and kick people. That's a mental health issue for that person. Yes there are stresses at Disney and a vacation there is exhausting, and yes it absolutely can push you to your limits, but it's YOUR PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY to take care of your personal needs and well being.

 

[Lilofan]

At this point I feel like you're just amusing yourself with repetition. We all get your point, but it's wrong. Disney isn't responsible if the heat and the crowds are so stressful for you that it makes you want to physically punch and kick people. That's a mental health issue for that person. Yes there are stresses at Disney and a vacation there is exhausting, and yes it absolutely can push you to your limits, but it's YOUR PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY to take care of your personal needs and well being.

In regards to personal acts, if one doesn't play by the rules , then get ready to be punished and held accountable.

 

[flynnibus]

At this point I feel like you're just amusing yourself with repetition. We all get your point, but it's wrong. Disney isn't responsible if the heat and the crowds are so stressful for you that it makes you want to physically punch and kick people. That's a mental health issue for that person. Yes there are stresses at Disney and a vacation there is exhausting, and yes it absolutely can push you to your limits, but it's YOUR PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY to take care of your personal needs and well being.

You really think disney doesn’t have a say in crowd management or how people visit the parks and what that entails and requires of people? And that its just same as it ever was?

That’s mental

 

[Dr. Nigel Channing]

So were you just a bad person to start with, and your breakdown happened due to what? Or were there other factors involved besides just what person you are?

I think you read way too much into what I said. Never said anything about being a "bad person".

I'll try to make my point in simplest terms.
We all get angry sometimes for numerous reasons.
That anger should not ever lead to violence, such as seen at MK during the incident we are discussing here.