Al Lutz: Carsland for WDW, FLE not Bringing in Guests

[WDW1974]

Yeah but nobody should be visiting DL five times a week, every week, with tattoos of multiple Disney characters and quotes, dressed like characters such as Jack Sparrow and Peter Pan.

So true.

But without insulting all those 'hard-working' bloggers/Lifestylers out there, no one should be spending five days a week at DL or WDW unless they're either on vacation or working ... as in employed by TWDC or say a contractor building new-fangled Tangled toilets. It is bizarre behavior all around.

 

[WDW1974]

Thanks for the kind words, Mr. Spirit. One thing though, I'm not sure how much I like being compared to a canary in a coal mine. Sounds very much like martyrdom to me. Anyway, it appears to me that on occasion you need a PR guy to help you get your point across and I am just the guy. You'll be receiving my bill shortly.

You should know by now that I do my own PR, but I appreciate the offer.

Generally, I appreciate all the offers I get!

 

[WDW1974]

And you were doing so well too! Of course your focus is going to change based on the number of visits you have. It has too. When you first started going you were not as much blinded by Pixie Dust as you were the Glint and Glimmer of the place. Even the first few years it remains the same because there is so much to see and so much to do, you really don't have time to even notice the negatives, much less have time to concentrate on them.

I believe that I stated that I never started to even go there until I was 35 years old and had small children in tow. Yes, I did love it and it was new and exciting and so, so different from anything I had ever experienced, but that didn't stop me from noticing things that somehow you were lucky enough to escape or not notice. In 1983 when I first went to EPCOT Ctr. it was anything but magical. The line to the movie in Imagination was all the way out to The Land. We spent so much time in that line that we just decided that Disney's mystical people moving abilities had not taken the Monorail over with us from MK and we left. We didn't go back until 4 years later. Perhaps in the mid 90's you missed the smell of garbage wafting up from the west side of Casey's or the rancid ketchup that was also in the same spot. You didn't see the AA's on Tom Sawyer Island totally immobile just standing there in frozen form. Apparently you were lucky or your radar hadn't kicked in yet.

No, I think you misunderstood where I was coming from. Sure, you notice less on visit one or two than on 101 or 102. But by say 1986 (I'm using that date because it was on that trip that I encountered my first rude CM -- EPCOT Parking Plaza, young blonde dude) I had visited over 100 times and I wasn't blinded by anything except, possibly, the new and high quality additions that came on almost every visit.

Things were never perfect. But Disney tried to hit that bar, and came damn close. Certainly, there were times when somethings weren't perfect. But things started getting much worse in the late 90s and continued on to where we are now.

I don't know about the smell of garbage at Casey's (I have smelled all sorts of things at Disney over the years that I'd rather not recall!) but I do know that the attractions were in near perfect shape and that the parks generally looked good to phenomenal in the upkeep dept.

So what I'm saying is that the totality of WDW, as viewed from the first through consecutive visits is gradually changed and forgotten or just not noticed. After you have looked at Main Street a few dozen times you stop seeing it as a whole and start noticing things like light bulbs out, etc. I did notice them, but, the mere fact that there were so few put my mind in a completely different mode. It's sort of the glass half full or the glass half empty. I thought to myself, my god, look at the size of this place and so few things are broken. You looked at it and said, there is no excuse for anything to be broken. Just not realistic. Yes, it breaks the magic bubble, but to expect perfection in every corner is asking for something the mere mortals cannot always accomplish, in fact I doubt that it is anymore possible then perpetual motion.

If you don't shoot for perfection, then it is impossible to accomplish merely greatness.

Disney shoots for 'whatever' ... and that shows across property.

Other things, however, are controllable and that is where I have joined your band wagon. The atmosphere, the attitudes, the availability of attractions where others once stood, systems that allow for a better experience (BTW, Fastpass isn't one of them) are controllable and you are correct in calling out Disney in that respect. I know I didn't pinpoint the problem until very recently, but now that I have, that is what I am planning on demanding from my Disney experience. The rest will follow.

Well, welcome to the band wagon. But it's now a wagon train. I'll be upfront in what passes for First Class!

 

[Mouse Detective]

I think of the last time I left the Magic Kingdom...reading "See Ya Real Soon"....having folks wave at me w/ big Mickey hands...I think of the last time I left US, a line of cast members where standing there (I assume to stop people from heading to the turnstiles you enter from...so many of them said "thanks for coming" as I walked by. It really struck me, just that little personal touch.

I believe Universal calls it "Good-byes". At the end of the night they require a costumed Team Member from each ride to stand at the exits and thank those departing for coming. It's a really nice touch.

 

[WDW1974]

I don't believe you create critical thinking by name calling and creating epithets. I do appreciate robust discussions and varying viewpoints. I have stopped reading 'the spirit' threads because of all the vitriol.

Create critcal thinking? I didn't know that was possible. You either possess the ability to think critically or you do not.

As someone who often is called vile names because I am blunt about Disney and much more important things, I do NOT engage in that. You may have an issue with calling folks who are addicted to WDW 'PixieDusters' but I didn't create it and it is a fair assessment of many guests and fanbois (you probably think I created that one too).

You want to stay out of Spirited threads? Cool. That's your choice. Also, your loss.

 

[Californian Elitist]

So true.

But without insulting all those 'hard-working' bloggers/Lifestylers out there, no one should be spending five days a week at DL or WDW unless they're either on vacation or working ... as in employed by TWDC or say a contractor building new-fangled Tangled toilets. It is bizarre behavior all around.

Yeah, I don't want to insult anyone here, but the people who visit ANY Disney park that many times a week have a serious problem. And I'm not exaggerating, when I worked at DL I saw some faces that would come at least five days a week, with their own fake CM badges, too. Talk about weird. I'm not joking about the Jack Sparrow costume, either.

 

[asianway]

Yeah, I don't want to insult anyone here, but the people who visit ANY Disney park that many times a week have a serious problem. And I'm not exaggerating, when I worked at DL I saw some faces that would come at least five days a week, with their own fake CM badges, too. Talk about weird. I'm not joking about the Jack Sparrow costume, either.

When you're unemployable, you have to do something to kill time

 

[MerlinTheGoat]

Even at a Disney park I think i'd become incredibly burned out if I went that often. Wouldn't want to ever do that to myself. It actually helps to restrain yourself in fact, makes the experience all the more sweet when you do get to go.

I visited WDW a ton as a kid. Not on any sort of weekly rate of course but often several times a year during the early and mid 90's.

I did spend a lot of time at Disney World from late 2010 into early 2011 though. I had moved from Tennessee and had to wait a long while for my new home to go through. So I basically lived in Orlando for a bit and visited WDW in the spare time quite often. And it's probably not something I'd like to do again so often either.

 

[Californian Elitist]

When you're unemployable, you have to do something to kill time

No, these people can get jobs if they wanted to. Even at the park. I remember one of them (won't state his name) would do our jobs and would tell people where to go and where to line up in Fantasyland during the fireworks. We always had to politely tell him to stop. He could get a job at Disneyland... He had a fake CM badge, by the way, WITH his name on it.

I remember one time, getting on Pooh... The greeter clearly had special needs, and he was greeting us perfectly. He was adorable. They can get jobs.

 

[Tom Morrow]

Hollywoodland doesn't make a whole lot of sense, nor does the existence of a Bug's Land

I guess it's pushing it, but I feel like Hollywoodland slides by with the vague "Hollywood" concept - step inside movies, or whatever. Agree about A Bug's Land, but at least the attractions inside it are appropriately themed.

 

[prfctlyximprct]

I'm waiting for the day when this thread posts a picture of a bulldozer driving into HS...

 

[HMF]

Yeah but nobody should be visiting DL five times a week, every week, with tattoos of multiple Disney characters and quotes, dressed like characters such as Jack Sparrow and Peter Pan.

One thing you can say about the Disneyland Fanbase that is mostly lacking in the WDW Fanbase is that they are not afraid to call Disney out on mistakes. (Case in point- The recent re-painting of the Glendale-Hyperion Bridge replica on Buena Vista Street was heavily panned by many on the DL Boards for not being thematically appropriate for the original design intent, Now they are actually changing the bridge back to it's original color scheme. When was the last time something like that happened at WDW?) I do sometimes think the DL Fanbase is overly-picky about certain things at times but I would rather have that than the complete critical apathy of a good chunk of the WDW Fanbase.

 

[rricks26]

Being a former cm, cp and full time, there's an overwhelming attitude in all cms and management that all guests are stupid, we do our jobs perfect and, there's no need for change. 9x out of 10 if there was a guest issue where there was an irate guest getting angry over something they didn't understand like fast pass, a manager or "coordinator" would come over and literally belittle the guest defending the cms. Sometimes the guest would get even more belligerent and threats of kicking them out would start between the manager and the guest. This is an attitude that had to be changed IMO. Explain to the guests the issue and try to remedy it in the best possible way. Even if its something that can't be changed, cms or management should try to accommodate them in the best way possible. That's the Disney difference and that's what is missing now in the parks.

 

[PhotoDave219]

Yeah, I don't want to insult anyone here, but the people who visit ANY Disney park that many times a week have a serious problem. And I'm not exaggerating, when I worked at DL I saw some faces that would come at least five days a week, with their own fake CM badges, too. Talk about weird. I'm not joking about the Jack Sparrow costume, either.

Excuse me? You have insulted people here. Namely me.

I go to the parks generally when I feel like it. Sometimes it will be days in a row. Sometimes it will go 2-3 weeks without a visit.

I just don't feel I should be justifying how often and why I visit WDW to some random person hiding behind a pseudonym on the internet.

 

[Tom Morrow]

One thing you can say about the Disneyland Fanbase that is mostly lacking in the WDW Fanbase is that they are not afraid to call Disney out on mistakes. (Case in point- The recent re-painting of the Glendale-Hyperion Bridge replica on Buena Vista Street was heavily panned by many on the DL Boards for not being thematically appropriate for the original design intent, Now they are actually changing the bridge back to it's original color scheme. When was the last time something like that happened at WDW?) I do sometimes think the DL Fanbase is overly-picky about certain things at times but I would rather have that than the complete critical apathy of a good chunk of the WDW Fanbase.

An example I can think of recently at WDW would be re-painting the exterior of UoE back to its original colors, though I don't think it was in response to fan complaints or anything, so maybe not.

But just looking at the crowds that make up WDW compared to DLR should give you your answer as to why TDO largely doesn't listen to the fan community - it makes up such a tiny fragment of WDW's guests. Earlier in the thread i mentioned that I had recently visited DLR for the first time after being a WDW person my whole life. Another thing I noticed was a notable difference in the clientele. Look around at the majority of the guests at WDW - "one and done" mom, dad, and kids who don't really "get it" and are just doing it because its some sort of American staple to take your children to WDW; foreigners and tour groups who, while its probably unfair to generalize, largely couldn't care less about WDW's legacy, getting the quality they deserve, upkeep, etc...

At DLR one thing I immediately noticed was there were much more groups of adults, teens, and adolescents hanging out without young children (and to support this, very notably fewer strollers seen). I got an overwhelming sense that many of them actually get it and appreciate it, compared to WDW where so many just go because they're been told that they should.

 

[Californian Elitist]

Excuse me? You have insulted people here. Namely me.

I go to the parks generally when I feel like it. Sometimes it will be days in a row. Sometimes it will go 2-3 weeks without a visit.

I just don't feel I should be justifying how often and why I visit WDW to some random person hiding behind a pseudonym on the internet.

I'm sorry for offending you.

Clearly I'm not pertaining to you. These people faithfully visit the parks five times a week, EVERY WEEK. Not for three weeks in a row, not for five weeks in a row... I'm talking 48 weeks in a row. Obviously you don't fit that category.

You're excused, by the way, and I'm not hiding behind anything. If you didn't feel the need to explain to me, why did you respond?

Again, sorry for offending you. I didn't mean it.

 

[Californian Elitist]

One thing you can say about the Disneyland Fanbase that is mostly lacking in the WDW Fanbase is that they are not afraid to call Disney out on mistakes. (Case in point- The recent re-painting of the Glendale-Hyperion Bridge replica on Buena Vista Street was heavily panned by many on the DL Boards for not being thematically appropriate for the original design intent, Now they are actually changing the bridge back to it's original color scheme. When was the last time something like that happened at WDW?) I do sometimes think the DL Fanbase is overly-picky about certain things at times but I would rather have that than the complete critical apathy of a good chunk of the WDW Fanbase.

I know which thread on MiceChat you're talking about. I'm glad it seems they're changing it back... The fans were right, the new color isn't historically correct. I don't know why they changed it in the first place.

The same thing happened when we complained about Ariel's hair in the Mermaid ride. It didn't take them that long to change it.

I think we can be too picky as well. For example, did you see the thread where someone was really upset about the set up tables for pin trading in Tomorrowland? He was really, really upset, but it wasn't a big deal to the majority of the people responding.

 

[Tom Morrow]

Being a former cm, cp and full time, there's an overwhelming attitude in all cms and management that all guests are stupid, we do our jobs perfect and, there's no need for change.

Definitely agree here. One thing I can't stand is when a CM gives a guest attitude over something so incredibly innocent and simple. "Excuse me, where is the nearest restroom?" "*sigh* over there... *rolls eyes*" Another frustrating thing is how many CMs, even the most apathetic or bad ones, will still trash Universal and it's TM's. Either they are oblivious to Universal's continuous upward improvements all around, or refuse to admit when UOR is obviously doing better at something.

9x out of 10 if there was a guest issue where there was an irate guest getting angry over something they didn't understand like fast pass, a manager or "coordinator" would come over and literally belittle the guest defending the cms. Sometimes the guest would get even more belligerent and threats of kicking them out would start between the manager and the guest. This is an attitude that had to be changed IMO. Explain to the guests the issue and try to remedy it in the best possible way. Even if its something that can't be changed, cms or management should try to accommodate them in the best way possible. That's the Disney difference and that's what is missing now in the parks.

Do have to disagree here though. I've heard hundreds of stories where the manager does not back up the CM even though the CM was completely correct and only enforcing the rules they were taught to enforce. The manager would rather throw that CM under the bus than make themselves look bad in the eyes of that guest, even if it means allowing the guest to get away with breaking a rule. It's kind of a toss up and depends on the manager, it seems. Usually if there is any "belittling" its usually something completely ridiculous like "what do you mean I can't bring my newborn baby on Tower of Terror??"

But yeah, your overall post is dead on - there's an overall negative aura that is infectious. There's no pride, and there's no real incentive to be that great, idealistic CM.

 

[HMF]

An example I can think of recently at WDW would be re-painting the exterior of UoE back to its original colors, though I don't think it was in response to fan complaints or anything, so maybe not.

I can guarantee you that decision was not made because of the fan base. Especially because it was 14 years between when the rainbow palette was installed and the Radiating energy motif restored rather than a few weeks like with the Bridge at DCA.

 

[MarkTwain]

One thing you can say about the Disneyland Fanbase that is mostly lacking in the WDW Fanbase is that they are not afraid to call Disney out on mistakes. (Case in point- The recent re-painting of the Glendale-Hyperion Bridge replica on Buena Vista Street was heavily panned by many on the DL Boards for not being thematically appropriate for the original design intent, Now they are actually changing the bridge back to it's original color scheme. When was the last time something like that happened at WDW?) I do sometimes think the DL Fanbase is overly-picky about certain things at times but I would rather have that than the complete critical apathy of a good chunk of the WDW Fanbase.

Are they really painting back to the beige color? I must've missed the news. That's great if it's true.

Being a former cm, cp and full time, there's an overwhelming attitude in all cms and management that all guests are stupid, we do our jobs perfect and, there's no need for change. 9x out of 10 if there was a guest issue where there was an irate guest getting angry over something they didn't understand like fast pass, a manager or "coordinator" would come over and literally belittle the guest defending the cms. Sometimes the guest would get even more belligerent and threats of kicking them out would start between the manager and the guest. This is an attitude that had to be changed IMO. Explain to the guests the issue and try to remedy it in the best possible way. Even if its something that can't be changed, cms or management should try to accommodate them in the best way possible. That's the Disney difference and that's what is missing now in the parks.

YES. This attitude is very much one that exists among cast member culture and it's quite frustrating. I think part of this is due to the repetition the job requires - if you are stationed to a particular area and hear "when is the nearest restroom" 10,000 times a week, it may become difficult to answer enthusiastically all 10,000 times. The trick of course is to remember that when a guest asks you this, it is not that they have asked you this 10,000 times from their own stupidity; it is in fact their first time asking and they deserve a level of courtesy befitting a guest in need of individual assistance.

But the larger part of this attitude, and the attitude that is much harder to reverse, is the shift in the resort mentality that Disney has pushed upon its CMs (at least from my experience): from that of being a resort that seeks to provide excellent guest service to all guests, all the time, to being an almost mathematically-controlled operation in which guests are annoying variables that get in the way of optimum efficiency. This is an attitude Disney must reverse, and will be difficult to do as long as the principle complaints CMs hear each day from leadership are about numbers being down and FastPass merge ratios being off.