Al Lutz: Carsland for WDW, FLE not Bringing in Guests

PirateFrank

PirateFrank

Well-Known Member
djkidkaz said:
I think the answer lies in the beginning of your statement. You said that you used to make a yearly trip to WDW and loved everything. Then you stated that over the course of a year you spent almost a month at WDW ( 29 days ). Of course anything you do over and over is going to change the way you see it. You have so much time on your hands that your viewing the parks differently. You start to feel that there isn't as much to do in the parks anymore because you were just there and rode it all then. So you notice that your feeling bored or not spending as much time in the parks and trying to figure out what to do with your day, where-as before you didn't have that problem so your day was busy, busy, busy because in actuality, there is ALOT to do at WDW. I think you summed this theory up perfectly with your feelings toward Universal. Its new and fresh to you, so now your pining to go back. Go and spend a month this year visiting Uni and eventually you'll be right back where you are at WDW, bored and uninspired. It doesn't mean that Uni or WDW are bored and uninspiring, it just means they are to YOU at this time in your life. My guess is that if you spent the next two years of your life vacationing anywhere other than Disney and didn't spend a single day reading a Disney forum or blog, you would arrive at the Magic Kingdom on that next vacation and the excitement, love and energy would return.

The parks don't grow fast enough for us, I don't even believe they are meant to. We are the rare breed that spends countless hours a day creating websites, surfing forums and reading blogs. You have folks that love it so much they can't see or accept anything is wrong or could be done better. And you have folks who yearn for the Disney of past and believe that they weren't wearing rose colored glasses back in the day, it actually WAS all perfect and MAGICal. The truth, as always, is somewhere in the middle.
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I do concede that we had been there way too much this past year. We generally don't go nearly this often. It's more on a cycle of 12-18 months....although in 08, we rocked WDW for 20 days over the course of two 10 day trips separated by 9 months.

But having said that, although you make good points, I have to disagree with you on some level. When we were down there in 08, on the last day of the second trip (the 20th day) I was not fatigued at all. In fact, I remember getting on the ME that day rather emotional that the vacation was coming to an end.

These issues I experienced over the past year were directly as a result of CM apathy or weren't corrected due to it. Period. And then seeing universal on the jan '13 trip was an opportunity to make a direct comparison and draw some conclusions. In scientific experiments, a test subject or placebo is often a great way to measure change. While this is hardly a scientific comparison, seeing the effort that universal team members put into their jobs cast a far greater light on how poorly CMs were doing theirs....and how significant CM atrophy has been over the very short period of this 5 year comparison.

....and folks, this isn't doom and gloom. I bleed disney blood as do most of you guys and gals here. There's a promo video somewhere where a woman, while referring to WDW says "I cry when I arrive and I cry when I leave ..." That's me. Imagine some 40 yr old 6'5" man tearing up as he walks down main st. That's me. Pretty lame, right?

But the only reason I'm crying these days is because I just watched Minnie clench her fists in disgust as my daughter asked to take another picture with her, while the character attendant was off checking her nails. This was on our oct 11 trip. During that same trip, we rented a car and went to IOA for a day of Harry Potter. On our way out of the park, we stopped in the gift shop right at the entrance. Spider-Man was in the shop. No line for a meet and greet, no character attendant making people queue up. He's just hanging there making kids feel special. He spent 5-8 minutes with my son, asking him where he was from, talking about school, villains, etc Once he learned he was from NY, Spider-Man goes "oh wow! So am I.....we gotta get some pizza some day! You up for that?" It was a chance encounter that was truly special.....

Back in oct 11, that compare/contrast between Minnie and Spider-Man wasn't clear in mind as it is now. It was an isolated event that could be chalked up to one CM having a bad day and one TM having a good day....but the fact that our first trip to uni (staying on property) was so special compared to the past year, totaling 4 trips at WDW -- with surly, unhelpful or downright nasty CMs.....makes for enough evidence in my eyes.

Sorry....it's not WDW fatigue. CM apathy is real and it's significant.....and I think it threatens the very fabric of WDW far more significantly than the broken ani's or TDOs refusal to engage Uni in the attraction war. One altercation with a nasty CM will scar a guest FAR deeper than the guest noticing the mayor isn't spitting water on POTC. If you ride splash and the bees aren't spinning, you're probably going to forget that little annoyance if the CM at the loading dock says to your daughter "wow princess you look beautiful"....but it's going to stick in your craw and ruin your experience after the CM says "hurry up, people are waiting"
 
dupac

dupac

Well-Known Member
Slightly OT, but I gotta say something about the whole 180 day ADR situation....

The last two times my family went to WDW we went in mid March. And both times we booked after Christmas. Both times we booked every ADR we wanted. This includes Le Cellier, Ohana, and Coral Reef to name a few. Are we just lucky? It seems strange that my experience directly contradicts the board consensus.

Anyway... my biggest issue on my last trip was trash. Overflowing trash. Everywhere. It was so disappointing considering one of the things that impressed me the most on my first visit at the tender age of 15 was the emptiness of the trash cans and the fact that I never saw anyone empty them.
 
Goofyernmost

Goofyernmost

Well-Known Member
PirateFrank said:
But the only reason I'm crying these days is because I just watched Minnie clench her fists in disgust as my daughter asked to take another picture with her, while the character attendant was off checking her nails. This was on our oct 11 trip.
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I'm not denying this happened but could you explain to me how one clenches their fist in disgust? Especially a foam headed character where you cannot see their facial expression. They could have been clenching their fist in pain from a gas bubble or something. Just trying to give this a reason for credibility here.:confused:
 
Rodan75

Rodan75

Well-Known Member
awoogala said:
The cm difference is astounding. The difference between 2009 and today are just- insane.
I have never complained at disney before this year. I complained about little things on boards, but all in all, I am still a magic seeker.
It was so hard this year. Cm's were rude, unhelpful at worst..just detached and checked out on the whole.
Servers ignored us, food was cooked terribly, everything was just off.
I did write to disney and complained.
My husband was done with Disney world by the end of this trip. He is not sure he ever wants to go back. Right now I am trying to convince him to try a wdw/uni trip next time.
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Two items on this
1. Disney as a company still knows how to bring the magic in FL, having just done a Disney cruise, the CM experience was outstanding.
2. Orlando is becoming an area that has become difficult to find quality employees in the hourly wage brackets, my company recently closed an office there because of quality of employees we were attracting at a $15/hr wage level.
 
PirateFrank

PirateFrank

Well-Known Member
Goofyernmost said:
I'm not denying this happened but could you explain to me how one clenches their fist in disgust? Especially a foam headed character where you cannot see their facial expression. They could have been clenching their fist in pain from a gas bubble or something. Just trying to give this a reason for credibility here.:confused:
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LOL. I didn't think characters got 'gas'...who knows....Minnie might have had a massive deuce brewing and all she wanted to do was to get backstage, get the costume off and open the bomb doors. and you're right. I don't know for absolute certain....but I feel my assessment was pretty accurate.

The clenched fist was part of the body language. The way her whole body amplified the clenched fist, the fist was formed, it shook, the body got rigid -- as if the person in the suit was about to throw a punch. The CM in the costume was clearly frustrated....and not only that...it was it in *direct* response to my daughter saying "Minnie, can we take one more picture?"...it also appeared that it was designed so my wife and I could see it.

Whatever the reason for the CM showing this frustration through the Minnie suit, it was inappropriate and a break of character (which I understand is a fireable offense, no?). I don't care of Mickey, Minnie, Donald or Pluto go back stage and punch the wall and let out a trail of expletives in frustration. Inside that suit, on-stage, they must remain visibly incorruptible....also, as I mentioned before, the Character Attendant was literally 25 feet away, checking her nails.

But there's something far less dogmatic that absolutely *gutted* me when this happened. No parent wants to see another adult, even one in a character costume, stand next to your almost 4-yr old daughter and clench a fist like he/she is going to strike her. The fact that this person had a Minnie suit on only made it that much worse....
 
WDW1974

WDW1974

Well-Known Member
I haven't followed this thread closely (only so much time in a day for MAGICal play, right?), but @PirateFrank and @Goofyernmost aren't known as Disney haters here (I won't go into the uttter stupidity of calling anyone here that now!) ... And as I read their comments all I could think of was Disney needs to wake up, they are the canaries in the proverbial coal mine for average Disney fans.

When they talk of something palpably different at WDW vs. UNI or Disney in previous years, they are noticing what I've noticed happening steadily this century. When they talk of Disney feeling dead vs a dynamic, alive, happening vibe at UNI, that is what I have seen for years. When they talk of Disney CMs going through the motions, being unhappy and disinterested on the job and, often, acting like guests are a nuissance while UNI's seem excited and happy to be there, again, that is what I have experienced. I could go on, but the bottom line is I just don't find anything I really disagree with.

But I guess for some, it's just better when it comes from a different source. I am blunt and that often rubs some the wrong way. I call some people Pixie Dust addicts because WDW can be and is an addiction for some in a religious/cult-like way.

Kudos to both posters for being honest about their feelings both past and present!
 
WDW1974

WDW1974

Well-Known Member
asianway said:
The CMs pride in ownership of the resort is one of the main differentiators in Tokyo and CA. They can truly make or break the experience. As more CMs who "get it" continue to leave WDW, the magic pool will continue to dilute. Hopefully at a minimum George K can change some of the culture. At least that would be a start.
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I doubt that George has that power. WDW is simply too large and too much of a mess. And while he cares about the guest experience, he isn't afraid to take moves that lower cast morale.

FWIW, I still believe WDW has far more wonderful CMs than bad ones. But let's say it's 65% great and 35% everything from OK to 'should be in jail' ... that means that 35% of your interactions are likely to be one of those types. And those bad ones are what you remember.

I can say that from Anaheim to Paris, Hong Kong to Tokyo to any DCL ship, the CMs are all of a higher caliber in the general sense.

I do wonder how bad WDW's cast would be if they didn't have the slave labor from the CP and IP to bring young kids in from all over who, for the most part, don't need the money and the retirees who love their jobs and, again, aren't really doing it for the income. Those poor folks living in local environs like Clermont, Davenport, Four Corners etc and bringing in $20,000 a year while working 50 hours a week for the Mouse are not going to be happy and who the hell could blame them?
 
the.dreamfinder

the.dreamfinder

Well-Known Member
raven24 said:
The pixie dust addicts scare me, sometimes.
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WDW1974

WDW1974

Well-Known Member
lazyboy97o said:
FastPass also taught us to ignore the lands, the theme. It encouraged running back and forth across the park to the next FastPass Distribution and then back to another attraction.
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Yet another great point. What is more important telling a story and letting it unfold naturally or making sure someone can run from Space Mountain to Splash Mountain?

Well, since they sell princess costumes and Mickey Christmas Tree toppers in Liberty Square, that's an easy one to answer.

But originally you were not supposed to run from one end of the parks to the other. You were supposed to slow down and explore Adventureland, for instance, not ride Pirates and head to Fantasyland.

(BTW, I find it a cosmic joke that the banner ad I am reading here on MAGIC is offering to rent me a double-wide stroller!!!)
 
WDW1974

WDW1974

Well-Known Member
Rodan75 said:
After thinking about it overnight, I do think sites like these do diminish the magic, as do continued exposure to WDW, the more you see it the more you see the flaws.
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I think that's a bit of a cop-out. MAGIC is still about as positive as you can get unless you head for the DISBOARDS where the Pixie Dust is about 10 feet deep in places. Only on News and Rumours (and sometimes WDW General) do you hear much criticism at all. And it usually is balanced by others chiming in with 'WDW has never been better!' (actually, I don't think anyone here is quite that out of touch with reality!) So, you want happy talk, there are plenty of forums here with it from Planning to Dining to Trip Reports.

I also completely disagree with the notion that the more you visit, the more you see the flaws. When I was in college in Florida, I sometimes was at WDW every other weekend. Well into the 90s I spent vastly more time there than I do now. And I didn't see very many flaws. It wasn't the Pixie Dust. It was reality.

WDW was one very high quality, wonderfully run product. I can stay away for six months now, despite living a few hours away and I see the ever increasng flaws as soon as I get there.

I think some folks just shut their minds off when on vacation. On the one hand I say who can blame them? People work hard and are spending a lot to take those vacations. On the other, I say people work hard and are spending a lot to take those vacations and they shouldn't be ignoring issues, they should be complaining about them.

Rodan75 said:
However, I do get the overall feeling about WDW, moreso when I look at Epcot compared to any other park. The poor Future World. And I agree overall the original impact of FP was a negative one overall, but I disagree that Universal's process is better, I've noticed more rides that completely stop in the standby line. I somehow believe that FP+ will actually improve the overall experience (and no let's not talk privacy for the moment)
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I think UNI's works much better, but they also have a far fewer number of people using them. I had some arranged for my last trip and barely needed them.

Rodan75 said:
I do like the conversation on sites like these and I love the business aspect of the theme parks (I am a corp guy in a completely different industry, but am interested in how the same corp things happen somewhere like WDW), however, I despise all of the reference to 'pixiedusters' and general negativity that exists here. If you don't take a step back you would swear some folks here are planning a coup d'etat on TWDC.
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Well, maybe this board isn't for you? What you view as negativity othevs view as critical thinking and commenting. As for Pixiedusters? Not even gonna bother ...
 

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