"Adios" El Rio del Tiempo!

[SirGoofy]

I go away for three days... and there is an explosion about the time river.

:lol: I know how you feel.

So I've read over the last 16-19 pages that are here after I last posted, and all I have to say is wow. Since when is El Rio everyones favorite attraction? I like the attraction, but I've never waited in line for it. Never. In the 10 trips I've done to Disney I have NEVER, EVER seen a line for it. So how are you going to convey the history of Mexico when nobody rides the ride?

Plus the ride does a horrible job showing that culture and history IMO. What is it trying to show? That all Mexico has is pushy salesmen and sombreroes? Come on, do you really think that the ride is educational? They show a pool bar for crying out loud!

If the three Cabs can get people through the ride and replace some of the noneducational scenes with some that actually convey some interesting facts about Mexico, I'm all for them.

 

[Wilt Dasney]

:lol: I know how you feel.

So I've read over the last 16-19 pages that are here after I last posted, and all I have to say is wow. Since when is El Rio everyones favorite attraction? I like the attraction, but I've never waited in line for it. Never. In the 10 trips I've done to Disney I have NEVER, EVER seen a line for it. So how are you going to convey the history of Mexico when nobody rides the ride?

Plus the ride does a horrible job showing that culture and history IMO. What is it trying to show? That all Mexico has is pushy salesmen and sombreroes? Come on, do you really think that the ride is educational? They show a pool bar for crying out loud!

If the three Cabs can get people through the ride and replace some of the noneducational scenes with some that actually convey some interesting facts about Mexico, I'm all for them.

My thoughts exactly. The idea being repeated here seems to be "Characters = Not educational." The two don't have to be mutually exclusive. If the rehab adds some characters AND new information, I'd call that a win-win.

 

[CoffeeJedi]

The idea being repeated here seems to be "Characters = Not educational." The two don't have to be mutually exclusive.

True, noone ever accused Figment of not being educational. Heck, i like characters when they're appropriate. But my biggest problem though is that they're putting in a ridiculous Mexican stereoptype (he wears a sombrero and fires pistols into the air fercryinoutloud), Donald, and a Brazillion stereotype to the ride. It just doesn't make sense.

 

[Epcot82Guy]

My thoughts exactly. The idea being repeated here seems to be "Characters = Not educational." The two don't have to be mutually exclusive. If the rehab adds some characters AND new information, I'd call that a win-win.

Actually, I don't see that concept at all. I frankly could care less about the actual education going on. I agree that the Cabs redo may likely be more educational to the masses than was ERDT. It's the statement that we can't be innovative and showcase the history and culture of an entire nation in an effective, entertaining, and (vicariously) educational way without the Disney brand blatantly included. Even more dangerous is that this runs the risk, as the Seas did, of making Disney not only a part, but the very focus of the attraction.

ERDT is a favorite of mine, not because it was necessarily great, but because it represents what little shred of the original EPCOT Center is left. As these things get etched away and, more importantly, replaced with things that are the antithesis of why some liked the original park, it really makes me question whether I want to go back because the new things don't interest me (and frustrates me because things like Soarin', I:ROE, and even M:S and TT suggest what Epcot could be without these other interpretations).

 

[hokielutz]

I seem to be gathering in some of my catch-up reading that the ride's educational points were being missed by most of the public riders. I for one just remember riding it to relax a little from the FL sun during the summer. The ride represented a taste of Mexican culture but the points were lost on me.

So if there are educational points that Disney wants to hammer home, then by all means make the rehab. And I will reserve judgement until definite plans come out detailing the rehab.

 

[Wilt Dasney]

True, noone ever accused Figment of not being educational. Heck, i like characters when they're appropriate. But my biggest problem though is that they're putting in a ridiculous Mexican stereoptype (he wears a sombrero and fires pistols into the air fercryinoutloud), Donald, and a Brazillion stereotype to the ride. It just doesn't make sense.

Like someone said earlier, the pistols aren't likely to be there. Don't know if that helps or not.

 

[dandaman]

He's referring to his 15 years with the WDC. I'm not sure exactly what part of the company, but it's not my business. I'll say this....Corrus generally knows what he's talking about when it comes to Walt Disney World.

Oh, I know. I just thought he'd been with the company for longer. :lookaroun :lol:

 

[Victor]

Actually, I don't see that concept at all. I frankly could care less about the actual education going on. I agree that the Cabs redo may likely be more educational to the masses than was ERDT. It's the statement that we can't be innovative and showcase the history and culture of an entire nation in an effective, entertaining, and (vicariously) educational way without the Disney brand blatantly included. Even more dangerous is that this runs the risk, as the Seas did, of making Disney not only a part, but the very focus of the attraction.

ERDT is a favorite of mine, not because it was necessarily great, but because it represents what little shred of the original EPCOT Center is left. As these things get etched away and, more importantly, replaced with things that are the antithesis of why some liked the original park, it really makes me question whether I want to go back because the new things don't interest me (and frustrates me because things like Soarin', I:ROE, and even M:S and TT suggest what Epcot could be without these other interpretations).

Right! Everyone says 'what is the big deal if they put in the three caaballeros?'. The big deal is that it ruins the cultural integrity these pavillions are supposed to represent. Alright. So they stick Donald into ERDT and smack his name onto the sign, more people start coming. Great! But what's gonna happen after this? Will Beauty and the Beast star in their own attraction in France? Aladdin in Morocco? Where does it stop after this?

 

[planet7]

ERDT is a favorite of mine, not because it was necessarily great, but because it represents what little shred of the original EPCOT Center is left.

For me, it represents not only original EPCOT Center, but a piece of the Magic Kingdom that I loved as well--If You Had Wings. The films may be cheesy to many, but they're one of my favorite parts of the ride. I suspect that some were even lifted directly from IYHW. Beyond that, I think the ride has a certain innocent charm that is seriously being lost, as Disney attempts--and all too often fails--for something new and splashy (Journey Into Your Imagination, anyone?).

As to another poster's comment about ridership being down, how many people even know it's there? They couldn't have hidden the ride much better if they tried.

G7

 

[Magicot]

I think the ride has a certain innocent charm that is seriously being lost

I agree, like that scene when the early '80s tourists are recieving booze at a hottub bar. Oh, and the scene when the merchants are following after you to buy their merchandise. It's a pity that that innocent Mexican charm is being removed.





:lookaroun

 

[planet7]

the early '80s tourists are recieving booze at a hottub bar. Oh, and the scene when the merchants are following after you to buy their merchandise.

I guess not all of us are that cynical about it.

So if the "hottub bar" was offensive to you, how do you feel about the beer ODV in front of Imag? That sent me over the edge. I thought that was a new low for Disney.

G7

 

[wdwishes2005]

Personally, I don't care either way. I haven't even gone into the mexican pavilion on my past 5 trips. Now if they added a nice water ride in Japan for me to ride as I digest my sushi, that would be nice.

 

[Victor]

Now if they added a nice water ride in Japan for me to ride as I digest my sushi, that would be nice.

Ooooh yeah...that would be...divine :slurp:

 

[CoffeeJedi]

The poolside bar scene and pushy salespeople really should go, i can't believe that the Mexican government actually approved this (well, maybe, it is a tourism commerical). It seems to say "White people! We are a poor and simple people, come to Mexico where we will wait on you hand and foot!" It's not a very good representation of the history or culture of the country.

However, 60 year old Disney characters are NOT the answer either.

 

[CBOMB]

What I find the most amazing about all of this is that, this simple, and enjoyable little ride has generated this may post in a 4 day period. I think this ride has a lot of closet fans, and I'm one of them. Right or wrong most people go to WDW to be entertained, and surrounded by things that let them know they or at a Disney themed park. They are not there to be educated in history or expand their knowledge of cultures in other parts of the world. I'm sure it would have been cheaper to keep the pavillion the same, rather than this new rehab. I don't think they would have spent more money unless they thought that this is what MOST guest would like. As a side note, thanks Merf for that explaination of the ride, I very much enjoy learning things like this. I'm just sorry this little ride will be closed on my visit in January.

 

[SirGoofy]

However, 60 year old Disney characters are NOT the answer either.

Why not? Why can't a revised, non stereotypical version of the three cabs work in ERDT? I really don't understand why everyone says this won't work.

 

[jakeman]

I am to the point now that I wish everyone would just put what year they thought Epcot was the best in their sig that way we would know what side of an arguement they are going to take...

Although they are entertaining, to read these arguements is repetative.

I'll do my best to some it up:

In one corner: EPCOT Center is the best, new Epcot has destroyed it.

In the other corner: Epoct is changing all the time, and that's not bad.

I have a feeling that the eventually the response is going to be "I'm okay with change as long as the 'spirit' of EPCOT Center is there".

Well "spirit" is subjective and not quanitative. My wife thinks my dog's spirit is adorable; I think his spirit wants him to get hit by a car.

So if everyone could just throw that year in their sig, it will be alot clearer for everyone else.

 

[CoffeeJedi]

Why not? Why can't a revised, non stereotypical version of the three cabs work in ERDT? I really don't understand why everyone says this won't work.

I think part of the reason is the unneccessary addition of cartoon characters to EVERYTHING. Stitch instead of a terrifying alien, Nemo instead of a realistic futuristic reaseach facility, Woody and friends instead of an "authentic" (albeit silly) saloon show. Instead of just being put into an interesting environment in the 1st person and letting us decipher the story through rich theming and loads of detail, we're forced to "watch" a plotline unfold in the 3rd person.

Not to keep bringing these guys up, but if you are a Disney park fan, and care just a little bit about the future, they really are a must read. Today's post talked about some of these same ideas:
http://imagineerebirth.blogspot.com/2006/11/magic-door_14.html

 

[Magicot]

I guess not all of us are that cynical about it.

So if the "hottub bar" was offensive to you, how do you feel about the beer ODV in front of Imag? That sent me over the edge. I thought that was a new low for Disney.

G7

Wait, where did I say I was offended? I just said it's too bad these scenes are leaving.

 

[JimboJones123]

Lots of arguments of Mexico Stereotypes being really bad and the 3 Amigos would only bring more.

Does that mean no more Foofie French hats either. No more Totums in Canada. No more Dragons in China. No more Banzi in Japan. No more Shriner hats in Morroco. No more Leider Hozen (flame away) in Germany. No more Fishing gear in Norway. No more British Rock in GB.

Sorry, but Epcot's world showcase is "ethinic stereotypes" from each of those countries. That's what it is. They could show a more real depiction of the cinder block houses that tap the wire down the dirt road for electricity for the 1 lightbulb in the house. Or the fact that those same dirt roads are also the floor that many children sleep in in their 2 room houses. Or the fact that there is no sewage in many of these places and the running water and toilet are essentially the same thing. I'm not saying this to offend anybody. I've been there. If you want authentic Mexico... some of it aint so grand. Sorry if this and all countries in WS take tourist stereotypes and expand on them. That is the only exposure that most of the world has to these countries. It seems like they are "trying" to do a better and more fair job of representing Mexico in a better light. If you want to be upset about a bird. Fine. I'm sure the goal won't be to make Mexico look like gunslingers though. It will probably be to do the opposite. Lets wait and see what comes out before hemroiding ourselves all up.