"Adios" El Rio del Tiempo!

[Epcot82Guy]

That is true of many Disney attractions. The backstory is usually far more complex than can be conveyed in a short attraction. Did you know, for example, that Universe of Energy's diorama covers a span of 300 million years? I didn't, until I researched it. Or even the far more obvious purpose of the "Barn Theaters" in Living with the Land. Or the "Telemetry Tunnel" in Spaceship Earth?

If the guest enjoys the ride and gets at least a general sense of what is being conveyed, I think they've done well. It also gives the guest an opportunity to discover more on subsequent visits.

G7

Excellent point. But, it seems many attractions are currently going for the blatant, shallow storyline. Guarantee every guest gets it because they don't want to work their imaginations while on vacation (or at least to this mind). That makes it lose some of the magic, and I doubt the connection will be as strong on down the line.

 

[mousermerf]

That is true of many Disney attractions. The backstory is usually far more complex than can be conveyed in a short attraction. Did you know, for example, that Universe of Energy's diorama covers a span of 300 million years? I didn't, until I researched it. Or even the far more obvious purpose of the "Barn Theaters" in Living with the Land. Or the "Telemetry Tunnel" in Spaceship Earth?

If the guest enjoys the ride and gets at least a general sense of what is being conveyed, I think they've done well. It also gives the guest an opportunity to discover more on subsequent visits.

G7

It's one thing to have an abstract concept for thematic purposes when designing scenic elements or even the flow of a show scene - that's how you create a beleivable cohesion. If people don't know what your logic is, but know there is a logic, and you set rules and stick to them, they're be okay with it...

However, Moctezuma II and the falling star is a big plot point that is needed for the story to make any sense and is poorly conveyed to the audience.

 

[planet7]

However, Moctezuma II and the falling star is a big plot point that is needed for the story to make any sense and is poorly conveyed to the audience.

How would they convey this better though? Especially to a public who probably doesn't know squat about Mexican history. I've already learned things in this thread that I never knew. I think they have to make some compromises, and gloss over some things.

As to it being a "big plot point", there's a big plot point in Energy's diorama that was never clear, either; not only are you covering 300 million years in a matter of a few minutes, you're seeing species rise and fall, and ultimately seeing the demise of all dinosaur species. The cues for the latter were increased geologic activity--a teetering rock; the spewing volcano, the Ornithomimus stuck in a bubbling volcanic mud pit. I never "got" that important transitiion, but the ride as a whole still worked well. Again, I think that's true for most rides--you're not going to get it all, but it can still work.

G7

 

[planet7]

Excellent point. But, it seems many attractions are currently going for the blatant, shallow storyline.

I couldn't agree more. And it seriously affects repeatability of rides. If I "get it" all the first time around, there's little reason to go back.

G7

 

[v_misses_epcot]

Who wants some cheese with sprinkles?
:lookaroun What? I just wanted to liven up the mood.

And I don't need to breathe, the way quest treat me everyday should've given me a heart attack by now, but I do go backstage to drink some water and add some to the "book." =D

 

[JimboJones123]

Finally Disney is taking a step forward for the new century. The most important counrty in WS is Mexico. With the growing influx of Mexican culture in the US alone the past few decades, it is very important for WDW to really reach their audience. They are attempting to reach a WIDER audience with this transition.

At Mexico Kidcot, I've been there 5 times in the past few years, I have heard one phrase each time. "Hola, that's just like Dora." Amost every parent says this to their kid when coloring their masks.

This is where Disney has been failing for years. Today, there is Dora, which is one of the most popular childrens characters out there. Also there is Dragon Tales, Backyardagins, Sesame Steet, and several others that have a heavy dose of Spanish and Hispanic culture in their shows.

Disney has just started up in the past few months "Handy Manny". This is their first real attempt to have a mainstream childrens program featuring Spanish language and Hispanic culture. They are now trying to clean up the mess they left behind by giving such a large market share to Dora.

Do kids really see this ride as anything more than a Little Small World?

If you are really interested in "education" then you need to "speak" to your audience. Merf had it right. They can tell you what the ride is supposed to mean in a book, or they could just have the ride tell you. Which is what they haven't been doing. So they decided to do that with Donald. Is that really that tragic?

There isn't a single person hoping that this doesn't become Tiki Room II, but lets see if things are learned and they do a better job this time around.

Ellen wasn't so bad. This is a decade later. Let's see how they do.

 

[Bravesfn1]

Great, thanks! I just won this book on ebay. If the rest of it is as informative as that, I'm excited! As far as Future World goes, I think I know pretty much all there is to know. Hopefully I'll be surprised,

On a side note, I won that book on ebay a couple of weeks ago also. Let me tell you it is a wonderful book for anyone wanting to know about the original Epcot. You will not be disappointed!

 

[Bravesfn1]

Who wants some cheese with sprinkles?
:lookaroun What? I just wanted to liven up the mood.

And I don't need to breathe, the way quest treat me everyday should've given me a heart attack by now, but I do go backstage to drink some water and add some to the "book." =D

V, I think you make a lot of excellent points. I tend to agree with what you are saying on this issue. Also, guests need to relax and not be so demanding. However, I just think this is part of society now a days.

 

[Epcot82Guy]

Frankly, yes, it is that problematic to some (in fact, many) people. The problem is that Disney of modern times has a large problem with self restraint. If it works once, the spreadsheets say it will work 8 more times, so let's push for 9. If this works (or at least looks good on the spreadsheets), I really wonder how long it will be until we have Brother Bear hosting the circlevision film in Canada or Lumiere coming to show us France. All this talk of "revitalization" is fine, but it is not just that; it is change. While the physical changes are minor, they are very strategically placed to shift (i.e. destroy) the public intention of Epcot. Again, I can understand that decision to pander to the character-loving Disney fan base. But, I truly wonder how deep seated this group's enjoyment will be. This move seems to be something you grow out of (not up with), and grow out of quite quickly.

 

[Dwarful]

Who wants some cheese with sprinkles?
:lookaroun What? I just wanted to liven up the mood.

And I don't need to breathe, the way quest treat me everyday should've given me a heart attack by now, but I do go backstage to drink some water and add some to the "book." =D

Thread drift:
Sounds like working at WDW is a lot like working for the United States Postal Service...you want to see an angry mob...show up at the Senior Citizens complex during a rain storm w/their pension/social security checks...I never dreaded something so much in my life SO I feel your pain. Any time you deal with people, you will deal with idiots...there are far too many of them out there. But just know many of us appreciate all of the hard work CM's do.

OK now the whole "Handy Manny" thing, have you watched that show? BTW who came up with the name? Not exactly my first choice for a child's show but thats just me. Dora is popular w/the 3 & under crowd, but the competition pulls the kids from Dora by the time they are a bit older.

I think I will wait to cast my decision until I see the final product. I'll see it the old way in Dec. and the new way in June. Keeping fingers crossed that things go well.

 

[v_misses_epcot]

Thread drift:
Sounds like working at WDW is a lot like working for the United States Postal Service...you want to see an angry mob...show up at the Senior Citizens complex during a rain storm w/their pension/social security checks...I never dreaded something so much in my life SO I feel your pain. Any time you deal with people, you will deal with idiots...there are far too many of them out there. But just know many of us appreciate all of the hard work CM's do.

OK now the whole "Handy Manny" thing, have you watched that show? BTW who came up with the name? Not exactly my first choice for a child's show but thats just me. Dora is popular w/the 3 & under crowd, but the competition pulls the kids from Dora by the time they are a bit older.

I think I will wait to cast my decision until I see the final product. I'll see it the old way in Dec. and the new way in June. Keeping fingers crossed that things go well.

Thread drift 2:
Well prior to this I worked as a cashier at HEB in Texas. And man oh man!! When the stuffing runs out during the last minute shopping for Thanksgiving, It's like an atomic bomb just hit!! Turkeys everywhere, people in lines way across thw whole store! People fighting for turkeys!

So I'm already used to silly guest, but I've learned to brush it off. Last night during illuminations a guest was sitting in back of the ropes where the electrical areas are. I told her in a nice way to come back from behind the ropes. And she's like "oh, you mean in front of the ropes?" No problem.....I'm like don't you be a SA with me lady!! :fork: lol But then I started to talking to some folk from new york and that was a pleasent 30 minute talk. Plus the xmas tree was making forget about being angry for the night.

Anyhow, donald is cute, heck, HE'S NUMBER 1 =) But I really hope they bring a different approach with the ride.

 

[Greenlawler]

I am not shallow, slow of wit or driven by a satisfy me now attitude. I do not care how many times the "lords of the Epcot unvierse" wax holy about this "blessed land." I feel you are going a little over board with your reaction.
I am old school when it comes to the parks. I come to the conclusion if this rumor is true that a 3Cab update in definatly within the spirit of what Walt would have wanted. The film was only partialy targeted at kids, it was aimed at adults and education as well. Completly within the Epcot venacular.
Also remember the Cabs were personal favs of Walt.

 

[CoffeeJedi]

EPCOT Central weighs in as usual:
" Mexico, Schmexico -- They're All Latin!"
http://epcot82.blogspot.com/2006/11/mexico-schmexico-theyre-all-latin.html
He makes a good point, to insert Donald (an American) and Jose (a Brazillian) does a TREMENDOUS disservice to the people and culture of Mexico.

What if Disney decided to rip out the American Adventure and replace it with a princess attraction featuring Cinderella, Snow White, Ariel and Aurora, i mean... they're all WHITE right? That's the same thing as American........

edit: yeah, i'm sure i'm "parroting" someone else's opinion (pun intended), but i didn't want to backtrack through 20+ pages

 

[marni1971]

Frankly, yes, it is that problematic to some (in fact, many) people. The problem is that Disney of modern times has a large problem with self restraint....

This, and the rest of your answer (I won`t quote in full) is one of the best I`ve read on the subject. Period. :wave:

 

[Victor]

I am not shallow, slow of wit or driven by a satisfy me now attitude. I do not care how many times the "lords of the Epcot unvierse" wax holy about this "blessed land." I feel you are going a little over board with your reaction.
I am old school when it comes to the parks. I come to the conclusion if this rumor is true that a 3Cab update in definatly within the spirit of what Walt would have wanted. The film was only partialy targeted at kids, it was aimed at adults and education as well. Completly within the Epcot venacular.
Also remember the Cabs were personal favs of Walt.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again. It was a propaganda film which along with Saludos Amigos was commisioned by the US State Depratment. What did it teach kids? That there are pretty girls in Latin America who like to dance, and the brazillians like cigars, and mexcians are gun happy?

 

[JimboJones123]

Thread drift:
Sounds like working at WDW is a lot like working for the United States Postal Service...you want to see an angry mob...show up at the Senior Citizens complex during a rain storm w/their pension/social security checks...I never dreaded something so much in my life SO I feel your pain. Any time you deal with people, you will deal with idiots...there are far too many of them out there. But just know many of us appreciate all of the hard work CM's do.

OK now the whole "Handy Manny" thing, have you watched that show? BTW who came up with the name? Not exactly my first choice for a child's show but thats just me. Dora is popular w/the 3 & under crowd, but the competition pulls the kids from Dora by the time they are a bit older.

I think I will wait to cast my decision until I see the final product. I'll see it the old way in Dec. and the new way in June. Keeping fingers crossed that things go well.

Sorry if Handy Manny doesn't cut it for you. Sometimes there has to bee a Boo-Bah alternative.

 

[tracyandalex]

Well, v, I just explained with cited proof what the Mexico boat ride is actually about...

Now tell me.. How many guests actually got any of that information from riding the ride? I don't think any of them did. I don't think anyone realized the falling star / comet was symbolic of the end of a civilization and segway into the next era.

The show never translated well. If no one understands your message then you're not saying it properly.

nicely said merf. being a history major and having taken a class dealing with mexican history, i understood some of what they were tryingto convey, but not everything. the average rider would not get all that from the ride. i hope this rehab does a better job of communicating the message to the public at large. as far as characters go, i'm not sure it'sthe best idea, but guests seem to like it


tracy

 

[planet7]

Also, guests need to relax and not be so demanding.

Why? Has Disney become any less "demanding" of us? Of course not. They charge ever-higher prices for a product of ever dwindling quality. Why should we accept that?

I despise the "entitlment mentality" that pervades our society now, but this isn't it--this is expecting an honest value for our hard-earned money, and real accountability to Walt's standards.

G7

 

[hokielutz]

I go away for three days... and there is an explosion about the time river.

 

[Magicot]

Let's see...
-Epcot is the property of the Walt Disney Company.
-They can do whatever they want to their parks.
-We have barely any say (if any) in what happens to their attractions.
-The new animation for ERdT is already being made, the changes are coming.
-What's the only thing we can do about it? Complain. And where is that getting us?