ABC/Lost/Disney Question..........

[The_CEO]

REALLY good WRITING should give you at least some clue to an overarching plot, not just a million clues to a bigger picture that will be revealed when at a time THEY choose.

If they REALLY cared about the story, then we would've seen the Season Finale a LONG time ago. You can't tell a "supposedly" Episodic Story like a sitcom.

You obviously do not understand business...

Lost being the story it is couldn't of had all the answers by season 2. Darlton did not have a series end date by season 2 thus the filler effect.. Now that there is an end date set, 2010, after 6 full seasons, they know where to land the arch. We are on the downward slope hence the forward development. Tighter script, more engaging sequences all to eventually end the show in 2010. As I have told many in the past, Lost is for viewers who like to be engaged, challenged, and think.... Sit-com, one hour dramas that are self-containing story arch's don't need to give you clues because they are too simplistic. At the end of the show there has been a conclusion.

 

[marsrunner]

Newbie here, too, and just wanted to chime in that I think Lost is one of the best shows I've ever watched. Characters I love (or love to hate...Michael, Jack at time) and a story that has never to me seemed to not know where it was going, even if I didn't always know.
The X-Files is one of my top shows ever, but more for the Scully/Mulder dynamic and the other characters and less for the mythology storyline which season-by-season got less and less compelling, until at the end it was just a mess. I even loved Doggit and Reyes and think the show could have continued if they'd just axed Scully/Mulder rather than having Scully hang around and continuously tease about Mulder coming back. Whole episodes about him where he didn't even appear except as an e-mail? Oh brother.
For reference, my other top shows would be Buffy, Angel, The Shield, Star Trek: Deep Space Nine and The Sopranos. Yes, I like continuing stories.

 

[Since1976]

You obviously do not understand business...

Lost being the story it is couldn't of had all the answers by season 2. Darlton did not have a series end date by season 2 thus the filler effect.. Now that there is an end date set, 2010, after 6 full seasons, they know where to land the arch. We are on the downward slope hence the forward development. Tighter script, more engaging sequences all to eventually end the show in 2010. As I have told many in the past, Lost is for viewers who like to be engaged, challenged, and think.... Sit-com, one hour dramas that are self-containing story arch's don't need to give you clues because they are too simplistic. At the end of the show there has been a conclusion.

Here's the rub: now that things are progressing at a breakneck page, some fans lament that may not be any more "filler" character-driven episodes. From here on out it's plot, plot, plot, or so say "Darlton." (I personally think there will be some "breather" episodes in the final 30 or so episodes, but they won't be as obviously filler-y.

 

[Since1976]

It looks like this thread kind of drifted into a discussion of the merits of the show rather than one about its viability as a theme park attraction, so I'll try to steer it back on course...

Could a LOST attraction draw an enduring following? Absolutely! All it would need is a thrill element that keeps people coming back, ala the drop in Splash Mountain, or the elevator drop in ToT. The story and premise of the attraction itself would be a bonus for those familiar with the show, or at the very least awaken the fear factor in people who aren't familiar with it.

From a business standpoint, it's possible that Disney is too dim to recognize the potential for this show as an attraction, even though it's arguably one of their biggest television hits, and in that oh-so-theme-park-attraction-friendly genre of sci-fi.

Here's something that may encourage viewers of the show and fans of the parks: on a podcast Dalton did sometime during season 2, they actually teased the idea of a Disney attraction when a fan wrote in a question similar to the OP. Most likely it was a way of dropping a hint to the suits at Disney, but it's encouraging that the producers and showrunners themselves may have a few ideas up their sleeves for a LOST ride.

 

[EpcotServo]

I sooooo disagree. If you didn't get anything out of the first two seasons than I'd suggest Lost just wasn't for you to begin with. To me, perhaps fittingly since this is a WDW forum, Lost is like the best theme park thrill attractions ... you never know exactly what you're going to get ... what's coming around the next corner.

You can be unexpected and have shocking twists and do things you'll never see coming and STILL have a basic clue as to what's going on. I think it's more than unfair to make viewers watch more than TWO WHOLE SEASONS with nothing but twists and no real story development.

I'm sorry that I expect an iota of plot with my big heap of Plot Twists.

Polar Bear!

As it turns out, there have been clues all along about where Lost was going (now, perhaps, not ultimately but I'd argue that is absolutely not needed) ... you should watch because you are engaged ... because you have to think ... because you care about the characters and want to learn more about them and see if they'll survive on this island.

I prefer to think during shows about Moral Conflicts between the characters and emotional development and resolution.

For two seasons it was just Gilligan's Island with a loose Sci-fi Plot that they haven't revealed with shocking plot twists meant to shock you with. You can enjoy it, sure. Compared to alot of the schlock that's out there Lost has the scent of quality that can be alluring. But I definitely wouldn't call anyone out and say that Lost is only a Thinking Man's show, because again...I can show you some REALLY messed up Charcters trying to survive extreme situations.

There are alot of shows that Engage and Provoke Thought out there, and Lost may be one of them, but one of the best by no means. Again, maybe for American Mainstream Television it's gold. For me? I hold more against it because it gets away with much more acclaim than I'd give it.

OK. I'm convinced. Lost isn't for you. Perhaps reruns of the Golden Girls?
(since some other poster put that one on my mind and not because I love Betty White!)

It's not that I didn't try and like it. I tried! I was the one in the Family who insisted we watch it the First Season. I just hold my writers accountable for actually giving us some kind of reason. Characters interacting and plot twists are well and good, but at the end of the day It needed much more meat.

And I prefer MASH.
:lol:

Alright...somebody get me a phonebook. I gotta give Anime-boy a good beatin'.

Lost is almost a perfect show to me. Multi-layer plot. Great characters. Superb writing. Give me more than two seasons, but have an ending in sight to make sure to get the whole story told.
Love it.

My pet peeve...killing a show in mid story. I am STILL trying to figure out what would have happened to the folks in Deadwood! (Won't even go into my Firefly pains....)

I see the Multi-Layer Plot. I see the great characters (Well. I only saw two great characters...Matthew Fox and Locke. But maybe that's because I think one is awesome and the other one is Howard Hughes and has great delivery. :lol

But my problem is that it may be flashy, but overall all I see is a Drama (Comedy?) Action show on an island with a loose Sci-Fi story in the background to insure that when ratings drop we can start telling the story again to get viewers back.

Maybe the Human Drama is good, but I'm too far gone: I've seen much more deep/emotional/meaningful stories and conflicts in shows that make Lost's back-and-forth pretty shallow to me.

You obviously do not understand business...

Lost being the story it is couldn't of had all the answers by season 2. Darlton did not have a series end date by season 2 thus the filler effect.. Now that there is an end date set, 2010, after 6 full seasons, they know where to land the arch. We are on the downward slope hence the forward development. Tighter script, more engaging sequences all to eventually end the show in 2010.

No, it's because I understand. If they finished the show in Two Seasons with Two Seasons of STRONG episodes, they'd be out of Cash and Lost would be done. Make an Easy backstory, and just allude to it. Make it random enough to insure people want the answers, make the acting good enough that people will watch, and then drag the plot out whenever they stop watching to make it look like we've been going linear the whole time.

I see Business Conspiracy in everything My Friend.
:lol:

As I have told many in the past, Lost is for viewers who like to be engaged, challenged, and think.... Sit-com, one hour dramas that are self-containing story arch's don't need to give you clues because they are too simplistic. At the end of the show there has been a conclusion.

You can have your Cake and eat it too. REALLY good stories Conclude their story, but begin a second one at the end. You get a cliffhanger, and you feel like you have a clue what's going on at the same time.

But with Lost...all I can say is that the Cake is a Lie.
:lookaroun

 

[Wilt Dasney]

There is NO excuse in writing a TV show that you should ask of your viewers to watch more than four seasons to understand the story. At Season Two they dropped the ball and didn't live up to their end of the bargain: I watched TWO WHOLE SEASONS, and got no fulfillment whatsoever. Even if it's engaging, REALLY good WRITING should give you at least some clue to an overarching plot, not just a million clues to a bigger picture that will be revealed when at a time THEY choose.

I think the name of the show says a lot about the approach. The characters are obviously lost on an island, but they're also personally lost as individuals, not really understanding their own lives and destinies. Now some of them are temporally lost as well with this time travel business. And I think part of the point is for viewers to be a little lost when they try to make it all make sense. :lol:

Basically, I think the idea is to watch all these people grope their way through weird situations they don't understand. Someone said earlier it's more about interest in the characters than understanding what's going on, and I think that's probably true. The writers have decided that the best way to present the story is by having the viewers be as lost as the characters in any given moment, so their "aha's" are the viewers' too.

Once you have all the answers, the show becomes...Found. :shrug:

Whether or not this is all "great" storytelling is in the eye of the beholder, I guess, but it seems like the show has been pretty consistent with its approach.

 

[EpcotServo]

but it seems like the show has been pretty consistent with its approach.

Yep, I will give it that.

And yeah, the LOST thing. Their LOST in their lives. Yeah...got it.
:lol:

 

[AREM]

There is NO excuse in writing a TV show that you should ask of your viewers to watch more than four seasons to understand the story. At Season Two they dropped the ball and didn't live up to their end of the bargain: I watched TWO WHOLE SEASONS, and got no fulfillment whatsoever. Even if it's engaging, REALLY good WRITING should give you at least some clue to an overarching plot, not just a million clues to a bigger picture that will be revealed when at a time THEY choose.

If they REALLY cared about the story, then we would've seen the Season Finale a LONG time ago. You can't tell a "supposedly" Episodic Story like a sitcom.

You, sir, have just lost your place in Heaven.

Can I ask why? (I guess I just did)

Cause I ADORE the Golden Girls. One of the funniest shows. Ever. Its up there with Will and Grace.

Newbie here just dropping in, but I think this show keeps getting better and better. IDK how this show keeps topping each episode after episode. I can't wait to see this weeks episode! IDK what I am going to do when I am at Disney in March and LOST is on!!

Out of the mouths of newbies. Brilliant stuff. I love you already. LOL

Alright...somebody get me a phonebook. I gotta give Anime-boy a good beatin'.

Lost is almost a perfect show to me. Multi-layer plot. Great characters. Superb writing. Give me more than two seasons, but have an ending in sight to make sure to get the whole story told.
Love it.

My pet peeve...killing a show in mid story. I am STILL trying to figure out what would have happened to the folks in Deadwood! (Won't even go into my Firefly pains....)

.................and with that, you are now officially my favorite person.

I'll grab his adress. You grab the club.

Newbie here, too, and just wanted to chime in that I think Lost is one of the best shows I've ever watched. Characters I love (or love to hate...Michael, Jack at time) and a story that has never to me seemed to not know where it was going, even if I didn't always know.
The X-Files is one of my top shows ever, but more for the Scully/Mulder dynamic and the other characters and less for the mythology storyline which season-by-season got less and less compelling, until at the end it was just a mess. I even loved Doggit and Reyes and think the show could have continued if they'd just axed Scully/Mulder rather than having Scully hang around and continuously tease about Mulder coming back. Whole episodes about him where he didn't even appear except as an e-mail? Oh brother.
For reference, my other top shows would be Buffy, Angel, The Shield, Star Trek: Deep Space Nine and The Sopranos. Yes, I like continuing stories.

.........once again, out of the mouths of newbies.

I ADORED DS9. One of the best Star Trek series. But Voyager was still better. :drevil:

Janeway and Seven were always my favs. They kicked it so hard.

And yeah, the LOST thing. Their LOST in their lives. Yeah...got it.
:lol:

You, sir, need to be shot.

:wave:

 

[EpcotServo]

You, sir, have just lost your place in Heaven.

"I don't know where Jazz is going. Maybe it's going to Hell."
-Thelonious Monk

.................and with that, you are now officially my favorite person.

I'll grab his adress. You grab the club.

Killing me won't make what I say any different.

(You can't stop the Signal. )

You, sir, need to be shot.

:wave:

I haven't REALLY slammed Lost or it's viewers...If I need be shot it's because there's no place for someone trying to get people to expand their horizons.

 

[AREM]

I am only joking!

*sharpens axe*

 

[Lee]

(You can't stop the Signal. )

And with that....Servo earns a point and much slack. Well played, sir.


Dammit....he knows my weak spot....

 

[WDW1974]

You can be unexpected and have shocking twists and do things you'll never see coming and STILL have a basic clue as to what's going on. I think it's more than unfair to make viewers watch more than TWO WHOLE SEASONS with nothing but twists and no real story development.

I'd, obviously, totally disagree with your POV. There was nothing but story development, especially the first two years as we figured out exactly who these people were. I'd also argue that the bigger twists have come later (excepting that amazing opening to season 2).

Look, clearly Lost isn't your thing and I respect that. Just like say anime isn't mine.

At some point it just comes down to tastes ... and I think when it comes to Lost you have bad taste.

I prefer to think during shows about Moral Conflicts between the characters and emotional development and resolution.

And I don't understand how anyone who has watched the show doesn't see all of the above in every episode.

For two seasons it was just Gilligan's Island with a loose Sci-fi Plot that they haven't revealed with shocking plot twists meant to shock you with. You can enjoy it, sure. Compared to alot of the schlock that's out there Lost has the scent of quality that can be alluring. But I definitely wouldn't call anyone out and say that Lost is only a Thinking Man's show, because again...I can show you some REALLY messed up Charcters trying to survive extreme situations.

Again, obviously it wasn't your cup of plum wine and that's fine ... but it absolutely is a thinking man's show because it engages you and isn't the kind of show you can watch in a half-a$$ed manner like say tonight's CSI Miami and still see where things are going.

Lost works because it does things right on so many levels, but since you gave up on it after two seasons (and season 2 was really great) I'm wondering why I am even going back and forth at this point.

There are alot of shows that Engage and Provoke Thought out there, and Lost may be one of them, but one of the best by no means. Again, maybe for American Mainstream Television it's gold. For me? I hold more against it because it gets away with much more acclaim than I'd give it.

Well, I live in America and watch mostly mainstream TV, and enjoy the show greatly. I also think it doesn't get nearly the acclaim it deserves because it is an acquired taste. How Michael Emerson didn't win an Emmy last year, I dunno. I still can't believe that shows like 2 1/2 Men (essentially the same fart, drinking and ______ jokes week in and week out) and CSI are hits. But then I realize that most folks want to shut their minds off when they turn on the magic box and sit there eating ... I dunno ... say cake.

I'd like to say more but G4 is running the final episode of last year right now and I wanna see if I missed a polar bear somewhere.

 

[WDW1974]

Cause I ADORE the Golden Girls. One of the funniest shows. Ever. Its up there with Will and Grace.

It was funny ... and got Marc Cherry his big break. But I don't miss the empty facades at TPFKaTD-MGMS. And I think Will and Grace was funnier ... more groundbreaking really. But I do love Betty White ... she has been great on so many shows.

I ADORED DS9. One of the best Star Trek series. But Voyager was still better. :drevil:

Janeway and Seven were always my favs. They kicked it so hard.

I enjoyed both ... but got progressively more bored with each ... I think they overdid the franchise and damn near killed it. I couldn't even make it through more than 4-5 episodes of Enterprise.

JJ's reboot looks fantastic though.

 

[WDW1974]

Hey, where'd the island go?

 

[marsrunner]

Hey, where'd the island go?

There is no island.

Oh, wait, wrong show that doesn't give you all the answers.

 

[Since1976]

Alright, clearly EpcotServo gave up on LOST too soon, and I'll allow him that. I gave up on the show HEROES after a season and a half, and there's nothing you could do to convince me the show has gotten better in the interim, short of telling me that everything from the Season 1 finale on was a bad, bad dream.

That said (and I'm really reaching to keep this thread back on topic), I have a sick feeling that Universal will create a theme park attraction based on HEROES before Disney even thinks about their hot property LOST.

 

[Phonedave]

And I prefer MASH.
:lol:

Oh, I hope that was not a crack MASH is my show. I don't know why, but it just works for me. Maybe partly because deep in my brain, I know I would love to be in their situation. No worries about housing, food, cothing, etc. They are in a situation where they just have to do their job. Yet, they get to complain about it. Of course there is the ever present nagging little problem of you could be killed, but death never really scared me, so how bad can that be.

MASH is about the only show in syndication that I watch on a regular basis.

-dave

 

[Phonedave]

I still can't believe that shows like 2 1/2 Men (essentially the same fart, drinking and ______ jokes week in and week out)

And attractive women, lets not forget the attractive women.

-dave

 

[EpcotServo]

And with that....Servo earns a point and much slack. Well played, sir.


Dammit....he knows my weak spot....

:lol:

Watching Star Trek: The Next Generation last night made me realize that even though I love continuous-story shows, I have a huge soft spot for shows like Star Trek/Firefly/Cowboy Bebop with a set of great characters on a Spaceship that learn something every week and then keep on flying to the next planet, and the next...

Look, clearly Lost isn't your thing and I respect that. Just like say anime isn't mine.

At some point it just comes down to tastes ... and I think when it comes to Lost you have bad taste.

No, everyone has Good Taste. It's just a matter of if the things in your good taste are in range of other peoples.

My good taste has long skewed towards the obscure, so Lost just falls naturally at the outer reaches.
:lol:

Lost works because it does things right on so many levels, but since you gave up on it after two seasons (and season 2 was really great) I'm wondering why I am even going back and forth at this point.

Alright, clearly EpcotServo gave up on LOST too soon, and I'll allow him that. I gave up on the show HEROES after a season and a half, and there's nothing you could do to convince me the show has gotten better in the interim, short of telling me that everything from the Season 1 finale on was a bad, bad dream.

That said (and I'm really reaching to keep this thread back on topic), I have a sick feeling that Universal will create a theme park attraction based on HEROES before Disney even thinks about their hot property LOST.

You guys: But that's two seasons?!?!?

Me: BUT that's TWO SEASONS...

:lol:

Like I said, maybe it's just me, but I like much, much more in a season of a show. I think America bogs it's shows down with so many commercials that a even a show like Lost gets more advertising done in a season than actual storytelling. You see in other countries a 30 Minute program will run 26 minutes with ONE commercial break, and a hour program will run in the 55 Minute Mark. In America? 24 Minutes normally with at least four commercial breaks, and around 44 46 minutes. That's LOTS of show time lost to Subway commercials.
:brick:

Ok, Off topic there...just had to get that off my chest. And I'll give Lost one thing: It isn't Heroes.

:hurl:

Well, I live in America and watch mostly mainstream TV, and enjoy the show greatly. I also think it doesn't get nearly the acclaim it deserves because it is an acquired taste. How Michael Emerson didn't win an Emmy last year, I dunno. I still can't believe that shows like 2 1/2 Men (essentially the same fart, drinking and ______ jokes week in and week out) and CSI are hits. But then I realize that most folks want to shut their minds off when they turn on the magic box and sit there eating ... I dunno ... say cake.

Absolutely. To pull a Star Trek, We're not so different you and I. (Episode 9, Balance of Terror :lol

The only difference is that you say "Get LOST" I say "Go global, there's a world of television out there"

Oh, I hope that was not a crack MASH is my show. I don't know why, but it just works for me. Maybe partly because deep in my brain, I know I would love to be in their situation. No worries about housing, food, cothing, etc. They are in a situation where they just have to do their job. Yet, they get to complain about it. Of course there is the ever present nagging little problem of you could be killed, but death never really scared me, so how bad can that be.

MASH is about the only show in syndication that I watch on a regular basis.

-dave

No crack, MASH is a great source of comedic inspiration!
:sohappy:



OK, as a last aside I'd like to make another sad observation that might get a few to see where I'm coming from here.

On one of MY shows last night, one of my favorite characters died. It isn't a "Flash Forward" and there's nothing to bring him back. In season one, A MAJOR character died. Not because it'd be shocking or a twist, or because he wasn't important. He was very important, and he meant alot to several characters. As I'm sure you can imagine, this is indeed a twist in the emotional sense: These characters have to move on, even I have to move on. One of them was just SECONDS away from saving his life, but he was too late. Can you imagine the emotions and conflict that that character has right now? It may be animated, but I'd take it against any "mainstream" show and bet that it's smarter television.

Here's the Kicker. Why I bring this up. Let's go back in time to BEFORE this show came on that night, and let's take a clinical look at how two shows were advertised right before it came on.

ADVERTISEMENT 1 - LOST
A well put together and highly dramatized series of clips from Season 1.

ADVERTISEMENT 2 - MY SHOW
A clip from an ENTIRELY DIFFERENT older animated show, with the AUDIO REMOVED, and audio inserted of an Opera Singer or MEN BELCHING.

How is that fair? It's not. Even though the content is just as good, if not more serious or complicated, but one gets an actual commercial and the other one gets almost downright insulted, as if trying to make anything that comes on during the block like it HAS to inherently be some crazy cartoon with random obscene stuff happening.

Again, how is this fair?

How?

Why is seriously entertaining and intelligent content getting second class treatment?








If YOU know the answer, write it down! We want to hear it! So get working on those ideas and let us know. Here's how!

Put it in a self-addressed envelope, then burn it with a lighter and pretend like your soul hasn't learned an upsetting truth about yourself and the world! You'll be glad you did.

 

[Kamikaze]

Why are you still posting?