A Terror-rific Spirited 13th (ToT fans have lots to fear)...

[Sped2424]

Can't say I see that but I do agree with your stance on Moana being better for Tokyo DisneySea than Frozen now.

A Polynesia expansion for TDS now THAT is the stuff of dreams :,)

 

[The Empress Lilly]

Technically it was one of the first to be expanded.

I've always been meaning to ask you one day.

What was originally planned for the Caribbean Plaza corner?

 

[Sped2424]

#Moana4AnimalKingdom

Disagree why not get a nice poly expansion for the magic kingdom. Adventureland has been dying for a new eticket anyways and I would love to go on a boat in moanas ocean anytime. Especially if that would lead to the realm of monsters.

 

[DDLand]

No, it's not. This is not Walt's park in Anaheim. People need to stop using Disneyland to justify what Hong Kong has. Hong Kong adapted hardly any of the classic Disney elements that make the castle complimentary or fitting. From an MK style fantasyland, a lack of Fantasy Faire/Matterhorn, lifted mega attractions from far beyond Walt's death. There is no NoS, no Tiki room, no charmingly dilapidated Tomorrowland. The castle Walt built was for a much, much smaller charming park. They didn't build that park in Hong Kong. Nor did they bother to bring in any of the more recent elements that help compliment or continue to make it fit. The only thing in the style of the charming castle added after the park was built is autopia, now that's leaving too.

There is no cohesion, they are rejecting what came before because what came before was cheap, not befitting of the setting it was in and purely for cost savings.

Nothing is cohesive about an undersized Bavarian style castle at the end of a properly proportioned Main Street in a Victorian colonial China with a tropical mountainous back drop. It's being rejected because it was never an idea to begin with, it was inappropriate cloning.

So yes it's rewriting history, but the narrative was botched from the start.

Tellingly the only photo that has been used to justify it is taken 50 meters out and cuts out Main Street entirely. It doesn't work in person and fully framing the castle to make it seem like it works isn't justification that the original designers knew what they were doing or were bound by cost savings.

So reject away, shame away, but good riddance to a castle that was inappropriately stolen from Anaheim!

This is not to say the new castle doesn't end up looking awful, but this is in defense that I wanted that castle replaced the moment I first stepped into that park years ago.

No it's not Walt's Park. It was never designed to be.

Yet there's common DNA that was imbedded in Hong Kong from the start. Extremely similar charming Main Streets grace both sister parks. The Fantasylands, while different, both draw on European architecture. Lands that aren't optimized to have castles soaring over them.

I didn't intend to to turn this into opposing the change because of Disneyland, that was a response to those simply suggesting that Disneyland Park's castle was a result of only financial constraints. Though Disneyland does present interesting lessons that can be extended to Hong Kong.

When this is all said and done, this castle will likely be twice as tall. It will incorporate disparate architectural styles. It will leak into other lands visually. It will be imposing in a park that was not designed to be imposing.

Look again at the architectural choices. Those are inseparably connected to the theme and outcome. Anything that deviates from the pre-established values cannot support the themes. As the central point and first thing guests see when entering Hong Kong Disneyland, it sets the tone and is an important design anchor in multiple lands.

Everything from Fantasyland, Tomorrowland, Main Street, and even Adventureland will be effected. This will have a cascade effect that will be far more than just a new castle.

It makes sense because artists and designers took elements and blended them into a story. You can nitpick the story, but blurring the design and choices of the original designers will only lead to artistic chaos. The replacement or strange growth will only leave the park's purpose all the more muddied.

There's nothing wrong with improving upon a castle that was clearly less than adequate when it was built. It's far from a shame. You seem to like to keep inferior stuff just because of its cheap quality. Of perhaps you enjoy celebrating inferiority?

You amuse me.

If following and respecting a set of themes in a theme park makes me someone who celebrates "inferiority" I suppose so. Of course looking at the concept art and comparing it to anything Herb Ryman designed, I wouldn't be talking about "inferior" if I were you.

 

[the.dreamfinder]

Just want to point out that Cinderella Castle was shortened by 15 or so feet for Tokyo Disneyland.

 

[marni1971]

I've always been meaning to ask you one day.

What was originally planned for the Caribbean Plaza corner?

I've never seen anything planned for that corner pre 1972. Everything has it blank. Thunder Messa would have taken the strain (and the attention) in that area by the mid 70s.

Prior to the Plaza, the land ended at the Tiki entrance. Guest flow was directed through the (uncovered and easier to navigate) breezeway to exit outside the CBJ. The railroad was also further east that it is now, making the area within the berm even smaller.

 

[cdd89]

Concerned by the further extension to F&W operating dates next year announced today.

I like the F&W festival and make a point of visiting for it. (I also enjoy restaurant fairs all over the world, and the food quality (though not the absolute pricing) trounces Epcot F&W all over). But it comes with major disadvantages and I'm sure I'm preaching to the converted but anyway:

1) World Showcase at night is one of the nicer experiences at WDW - but with F&W it's pretty much intolerable.
2) "Drunk Around the World" shirts - where on earth do people buy these things because I saw hundreds of them on my last visit. They must be expensive because the people wearing them must be billionaires to manage to get drunk around the world showcase.
3) Additional trash cans disrupt the aesthetic of World Showcase.

I'm guessing impulse sales on booze is the key driver for extending operating dates. But I think the longer the event runs, the lower the food quality becomes. Each additional operating day represents thousands of additional units of each ingredient in any particular dish...

 

[BrerJon]

2) "Drunk Around the World" shirts - where on earth do people buy these things because I saw hundreds of them on my last visit. They must be expensive because the people wearing them must be billionaires to manage to get drunk around the world showcase.

You can get some form of alcohol at most stops for around $5, so 11 countries plus a few booths, you can do the circuit for less than $100, which if you're on a long pass anyway it's just like paying for a regular admission day.

Besides, many Americans are only used to drinking watered-down rat wee like Bud Light, so it doesn't take much more than an encounter with a couple of unfamiliar German brews for them to be rolling around the promenade.

 

[BrianLo]

No it's not Walt's Park. It was never designed to be.

Yet there's common DNA that was imbedded in Hong Kong from the start. Extremely similar charming Main Streets grace both sister parks. The Fantasylands, while different, both draw on European architecture. Lands that aren't optimized to have castles soaring over them.

I didn't intend to to turn this into opposing the change because of Disneyland, that was a response to those simply suggesting that Disneyland Park's castle was a result of only financial constraints. Though Disneyland does present interesting lessons that can be extended to Hong Kong.

When this is all said and done, this castle will likely be twice as tall. It will incorporate disparate architectural styles. It will leak into other lands visually. It will be imposing in a park that was not designed to be imposing.

Look again at the architectural choices. Those are inseparably connected to the theme and outcome. Anything that deviates from the pre-established values cannot support the themes. As the central point and first thing guests see when entering Hong Kong Disneyland, it sets the tone and is an important design anchor in multiple lands.

Everything from Fantasyland, Tomorrowland, Main Street, and even Adventureland will be effected. This will have a cascade effect that will be far more than just a new castle.

It makes sense because artists and designers took elements and blended them into a story. You can nitpick the story, but blurring the design and choices of the original designers will only lead to artistic chaos. The replacement or strange growth will only leave the park's purpose all the more muddied.

I don't disagree with your points, but what you are talking about is challenges that the designers must respect as opposed to inherent reasons not to do something.

Walt was equally constrained by his park's hub design when he too added a looming structure to the central focus of his park with the Matterhorn. It's up to the designers of this enlarged castle to make it fit... at least this time they are designing something and not copy and pasting.

As far as muddling goes, the park was muddled when the designers were forced to adapt their plans to fit a squat 50 year old castle for pure budgetary reasons. The designers always wanted something larger, now they are finally getting to do so. It's a potential chance to unmuddle something, but that's up to them to make the correct calls.

In terms of the actual product, as I mentioned I'm just making the case to enlarge the castle. The current size doesn't work. I know it, Disney knows it, the HK public knows it and especially the HK gov are upset by it. What they are choosing to do is another discussion. Another solution could have been adding a Matterhorn-like attraction to make something a bit more commanding. I know the mish mash SDL esque castle is subjectively not some people's thing. But it's really only time and nostalgia that makes a Bavarian castle at the end of Marcelane not a mish mash in the first place.

The only sight line they have to worry about is tomorrowland (which is having major work as part of this roadmap). MK's fantasyland was designed for a looming castle. Main Street survived the Matterhorn. Adventureland is too forested for it to be seen and every other offering is outside the train berm.

 

[spacemt354]

But it's really only time and nostalgia that makes a Bavarian castle at the end of Marcelane not a mish mash in the first place.

^ This 100%.

Look again at the architectural choices. Those are inseparably connected to the theme and outcome. Anything that deviates from the pre-established values cannot support the themes. As the central point and first thing guests see when entering Hong Kong Disneyland, it sets the tone and is an important design anchor in multiple lands.

Everything from Fantasyland, Tomorrowland, Main Street, and even Adventureland will be effected. This will have a cascade effect that will be far more than just a new castle.

It makes sense because artists and designers took elements and blended them into a story. You can nitpick the story, but blurring the design and choices of the original designers will only lead to artistic chaos. The replacement or strange growth will only leave the park's purpose all the more muddied.

Artistic chaos is having a Bavarian Castle at the end of a turn of the century Main Street, and a tropical mountain range as the backdrop.

I'm not the biggest fan of the new castle's design - but I'm willing to give it the benefit of the doubt - especially if it allows the new designers to potentially rewrite and establish a better narrative for the park as a whole.

 

[BrianLo]

^ This 100%.

Artistic chaos is having a Bavarian Castle at the end of a turn of the century Main Street, and a tropical mountain range as the backdrop.

And I didn't mean for it to be only a negative. Disneyland is one of the biggest mish-mashes of things Walt liked or was playing around with. That's what I love about it.

 

[spacemt354]

And I didn't mean for it to be only a negative. Disneyland is one of the biggest mish-mashes of things Walt liked. That's what I love about it.

Oh absolutely - same here!

 

[The_Jobu]

But I enjoyed Oliver & Company

Spoiler: Shhhh...

It's my favourite

 

[Cesar R M]

Disagree why not get a nice poly expansion for the magic kingdom. Adventureland has been dying for a new eticket anyways and I would love to go on a boat in moanas ocean anytime. Especially if that would lead to the realm of monsters.

because you dont want more people into MK, you want to distribute the crowds.

 

[lazyboy97o]

As far as muddling goes, the park was muddled when the designers were forced to adapt their plans to fit a squat 50 year old castle for pure budgetary reasons. The designers always wanted something larger, now they are finally getting to do so. It's a potential chance to unmuddle something, but that's up to them to make the correct calls.

Every design project has constrains and making it work is the role of the designers. There are always other ideas. Tom Morris had even already previously explored a larger version of Sleeping Beauty Castle if being larger was so important. There is also an irony of the argument that this is more inline with original intent when Morris has just been let go and Weis intentially reject the argument of size and patterned Hollywood Blvd and the Chinese Theater after Disneyland.

But it's really only time and nostalgia that makes a Bavarian castle at the end of Marcelane not a mish mash in the first place.

Artistic chaos is having a Bavarian Castle at the end of a turn of the century Main Street, and a tropical mountain range as the backdrop.

There is nothing chaotic, anachronistic or contradictory about the image of Main Street, USA and Sleeping Beauty Castle. Neuschwanstein is Victorian just like the rest of the Street. Romanesque Revival is exactly the sort of stately style fitting for the type of civic landmark for which Sleeping Beauty Castle is analogous.

The only sight line they have to worry about is tomorrowland (which is having major work as part of this roadmap). MK's fantasyland was designed for a looming castle. Main Street survived the Matterhorn. Adventureland is too forested for it to be seen and every other offering is outside the train berm.

Scale is not just vertical, it is also horizontal. Fantasyland may borrow some of the Magic Kingdom's styling, but it's hardly a looming place looking for something more nor is it the horizontal expanse of the Magic Kingdom. The courtyard and it's organization will all be impacted. Scale is also not just about what is visible at once and shouldn't change with each new view, the beyond the berm expansions don't just ignore that the Castle and Main Street are smaller.

 

[Mike S]

because you dont want more people into MK, you want to distribute the crowds.

Well it doesn't really work anywhere else as well as Adventureland.

 

[Phil12]

And I didn't mean for it to be only a negative. Disneyland is one of the biggest mish-mashes of things Walt liked or was playing around with. That's what I love about it.

You've hit the nail on the head! Disneyland's theme is a mish-mash of things Walt liked. There has never been any real coherent theme. I guess it's the nature of designers to desire to categorize and prioritize all things to fit their own mindset so as to calm their nerves.

As I've said before, it's up to the writers and concept guys to make things fit in any park. Just as The Haunted Mansion appears in different lands in different parks, Disney routinely takes off the shelf rides and slaps a veneer upon them to make them fit as appropriate. That's the magic.

 

[Phil12]

EveryThere is nothing chaotic, anachronistic or contradictory about the image of Main Street, USA and Sleeping Beauty Castle. Neuschwanstein is Victorian just like the rest of the Street. Romanesque Revival is exactly the sort of stately style fitting for the type of civic landmark for which Sleeping Beauty Castle is analogous.

Every average main street in the USA has a castle. Sorry but civic landmarks are not analogous to an old world castle, except to your way of thinking.

 

[Christian Fronckowiak]

Well it doesn't really work anywhere else as well as Adventureland.

It could wait to open after the other expansions which would hopefully draw some of the crowds out of Magic Kingdom.

 

[Mike S]

It could wait to open after the other expansions which would hopefully draw some of the crowds out of Magic Kingdom.

If it would happen at all that's the most likely scenario. I never said otherwise.

Unless Disney wants to give MK a special 50th present...