A Terror-rific Spirited 13th (ToT fans have lots to fear)...

BrerJon

BrerJon

Well-Known Member
egg said:
Here's my second point. You might say the castle works in California, so why doesn't it work in Hong Kong? Well, in a park full of history, legacy, and tradition, built by Walt himself over 60 years ago... the original castle can be seen as quaint. People grew up with it as a child. However, in a park built barely over a decade ago... that same castle is simply small. People don't have the same level of affection for it. SDL severly amplifies the problem, making HKDL look like the weaker of the two China parks.
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It's not the culture that makes HKDL's castle seem apologetic, it's the giant real life mountains behind it - the scale doesn't work with them at all.
 
lazyboy97o

lazyboy97o

Well-Known Member
GoofGoof said:
Is the issue the size of the new castle or the look? I've never been to HKDL so I don't know if a much larger castle will cause sight line issues in other parts of the park. As far as the look, is the surrounding area a clone of DL as well? Just trying to understand how the DL clone castle created cohesion.

I think every MK park should have a unique castle. This solves the issue for HK.
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The issue is both. The park was built with a small Castle in mind, so the cohesion comes from the scale of the park.
 
Sir_Cliff

Sir_Cliff

Well-Known Member
David2319 said:
Agreed, this has nothing to do with Iger, it has to do with the Hong Kong government wanting a castle that is very good even when compared to Shanghai, it works in Disneyland because it is historic, but that should be the only one.

Thanks, and I'm glad I said it too. It was done on the cheap and now that they are fixing it it is seen as a bad thing? Thankfully others agree that change was needed. It also sort of has a MYSTIC MANOR flair to it, so although it obviously is not as good as Cinderella Castle, it is a huge improvement and will give the park its identity.
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Completely agree.

I don't really know how we can say that it will throw off the scale of the park yet. We only have a few pieces of artwork to go by which certainly make it look very tall, but perhaps that will work in the context of the park? It's not all that wider than what they have at present and it looks far more graceful, detailed, and streamlined than what they came up with for SDL. It also seems to incorporate some vegetation and elements that echo Mystic Manor if not South-Asian architecture, which may work very nicely in the tropical setting of HKDL & help to give the park its own unique feel.

I also agree with the point that Sleeping Beauty Castle appeals in large part because of charm and nostalgia which will be largely lost on the HKDL audience. Being originally from Australia, I have to admit that one thing I used to hear a lot from people who visited DL was that they were kind of disappointed the castle was so small as they'd always imagined it to be far more elaborate.
 
DDLand

DDLand

Well-Known Member
Phil12 said:
It's a fantasy. It can be any size and the scale will be perfect.
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The best fantasy tells a story. It reinforces a set of themes that have been chosen from the area's inception.

Scale, architecture, and sight lines actually do matter. That's part of what gives the "theme" to a theme park. Without that we've got a rather bizarre collection of buildings with no point.

That's what is supposed to set Disneyland apart from Las Vegas.
 
lazyboy97o

lazyboy97o

Well-Known Member
Sir_Cliff said:
Completely agree.

I don't really know how we can say that it will throw off the scale of the park yet. We only have a few pieces of artwork to go by which certainly make it look very tall, but perhaps that will work in the context of the park? It's not all that wider than what they have at present and it looks far more graceful, detailed, and streamlined than what they came up with for SDL. It also seems to incorporate some vegetation and elements that echo Mystic Manor if not South-Asian architecture, which may work very nicely in the tropical setting of HKDL & help to give the park its own unique feel.

I also agree with the point that Sleeping Beauty Castle appeals in large part because of charm and nostalgia which will be largely lost on the HKDL audience. Being originally from Australia, I have to admit that one thing I used to hear a lot from people who visited DL was that they were kind of disappointed the castle was so small as they'd always imagined it to be far more elaborate.
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Since much of the existing castle will remain it is very easy to see the signifigant changes in height and width, so the scale and impact very easily can be understood. Not bein wider is not a positive, as it just makes it into a mess of towers and not a composed structure with a clear hierarchy of forms.
 
The Empress Lilly

The Empress Lilly

Well-Known Member
rael ramone said:
Oliver & Company is on right now on Disney Junior.

I'm about to change the channel.

Wow, is this terrible!!!! Sword & the Stone bad.... $700 non air conditioned tent bad.... Cockerell Fries bad... Soarin CGI bad... Unnecessary Security Theater bad....

Makes you appreciate Little Mermaid all the more....
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Huey Lewis alone uplifts Oliver & Company to classic status!!
nunu.gif



But yes, they served a reheated Dickens from the microwave with all the spice removed. Robbing the story of its poignancy. I was reminded of that a bit with Frozen, where it was obvious that Elsa should've been the villain, or rather, like Oliver Twist, should've been a more complex character than either hero / villain.

Yes, the six year old must also be able to understand the movie. But Stitch managed character development, the Lion King and New Groove too.
 
FigmentJedi

FigmentJedi

Well-Known Member
Oliver and Company is just the Disney Renaissance's equivalent to Bolt: The forgettable talking animals in New York movie that ended up overshadowing the far superior films that came right before them (Great Mouse Detective and Meet the Robinsons) that were the real start of Disney getting their act together after a period of darkness but most people don't acknowledge them
 
Animaniac93-98

Animaniac93-98

Well-Known Member
Quinnmac000 said:
I'm surprised no one talking about The Terror Plot on Disneyland Paris.

http://deadline.com/2016/11/disneyl...ttack-targets-suspects-in-custody-1201859772/
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Since the suspects are in custody, no guests have been harmed and no property has been damaged, I don't see what there is to talk about at this time beyond the usual "what if?" speculation.

I would guess these kinds of plots are developed more often than we would like to think, but are mostly prevented due to the work of police and the private and public security measures put into place.
 
GiveMeTheMusic

GiveMeTheMusic

Well-Known Member
Animaniac93-98 said:
Since the suspects are in custody, no guests have been harmed and no property has been damaged, I don't see what there is to talk about at this time beyond the usual "what if?" speculation.

I would guess these kinds of plots are developed more often than we would like to think, but are mostly prevented due to the work of police and the private and public security measures put into place.
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But FEAR! FEAR FEAR FEAR!!
 
Sir_Cliff

Sir_Cliff

Well-Known Member
Animaniac93-98 said:
I would guess these kinds of plots are developed more often than we would like to think, but are mostly prevented due to the work of police and the private and public security measures put into place.
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Yeah, I'm sure there have been plenty of plots against DL and WDW hatched that no-one knows about. Living in Europe at the moment, it's sadly something that's always in the back of your mind but you can't let it stop you from doing things.
 
Phil12

Phil12

Well-Known Member
DDLand said:
The best fantasy tells a story. It reinforces a set of themes that have been chosen from the area's inception.

Scale, architecture, and sight lines actually do matter. That's part of what gives the "theme" to a theme park. Without that we've got a rather bizarre collection of buildings with no point.

That's what is supposed to set Disneyland apart from Las Vegas.
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You're right about the story. A good writer can make anything fit anywhere. And let's be honest here. Walt would have made the DL castle much bigger if he had had the time, money and land. But the cold hard facts of reality dictated that he had to settle for a dinky castle. Of course Roy didn't have those constraints with the MK castle. Your "theme" explanation is dubious.
 
ChrisFL

ChrisFL

Premium Member
Phil12 said:
You're right about the story. A good writer can make anything fit anywhere. And let's be honest here. Walt would have made the DL castle much bigger if he had had the time, money and land. But the cold hard facts of reality dictated that he had to settle for a dinky castle. Of course Roy didn't have those constraints with the MK castle. Your "theme" explanation is dubious.
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Agreed, especially after checking the original Disneyland sketch that Walt and Herb Ryman drew up

6.jpg
 
DDLand

DDLand

Well-Known Member
Phil12 said:
You're right about the story. A good writer can make anything fit anywhere. And let's be honest here. Walt would have made the DL castle much bigger if he had had the time, money and land. But the cold hard facts of reality dictated that he had to settle for a dinky castle. Of course Roy didn't have those constraints with the MK castle. Your "theme" explanation is dubious.
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This has nothing to do with good writing. Is anyone saying that Disney couldn't create a Park with a large castle that would fit in cohesively and tell the story that it was intended to? Of course not.

This has everything to do with going back and trying to rewrite what has already been written. This is like a filmmaker capturing footage in the arctic and using CGI to place a palm tree on the landscape after the fact. It's entirely possible to do, but makes little sense and immediately clashes with what was already there.

It's wrong, and any audience would know it.

As an aside, I would also add that the narrative surrounding Disneyland points to Sleeping Beauty Castle being small as a deliberate decision. It was supposed to be something intimate and not intimidating; something that would immediately make guests feel at home.

While some might say that was spin, and it likely was, it succeeded on all accounts. It has remained beloved for over 60 years. I'd also advise looking at New Orleans Square. That land followed in the same mold of intimate environments that invite guests to explore and feel comfortable. This was a land added far later, and yet bolstered and respected the existing creations and lends credence to a deliberate choice on Sleeping Beauty Castle.

I'd also add that with each decision Walt Disney and his team took in the 1950s and 1960s, they complemented what was already there. Especially the Matterhorn. The perfect complement.

This choice in Hong Kong is far from a complement, it is an utter of rejection of all that has come before in that park. It's a shame.
 
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