A Terror-rific Spirited 13th (ToT fans have lots to fear)...

[SorcererMC]

Sadly there won't be a burst. Star Wars Land will make sure of that. Sometimes a burst and big failure is the best thing to get a company back on track but I don't think it'll be happening for Disney. We'll have Avatar and Star Wars as the only outliers and then brain dead decision after brain dead decision with rube after rube gobbling it all up.

I don't think the bubble will burst in a dramatic fashion, but I do think it could slowly deflate prior to SW and Pandora boost. There is a lot of uncertainty over the next year or two.

 

[AEfx]

This is riddled with straw man arguments. Please stop. It's fine if you are indifferent to ToT being changed, many here are not, for understandable reasons I think; it is oversimplifying to say it is 'nostalgia' and 'Iger-hate'. ToT is arguably the pinnacle of WDW attractions made in the past 20+ years - that seems to be the main objection to these plans.

There is no straw man, this thread is riddled with everything I mentioned. But if it makes you feel better to pretend it's not there, whatever floats your boat.

 

[AEfx]

I don't think the bubble will burst in a dramatic fashion, but I do think it could slowly deflate prior to SW and Pandora boost. There is a lot of uncertainty over the next year or two.

Not among the general folks booking vacations that keep those parks filled. They have kept coming all these past years when things became stale. Yeah the studios are a mess but really, at the moment pretty much the same attractions are running as have always been. The backlot tour isn't missed.

 

[marni1971]

Not among the general folks booking vacations that keep those parks filled. They have kept coming all these past years when things became stale. Yeah the studios are a mess but really, at the moment pretty much the same attractions are running as have always been. The backlot tour isn't missed.

DHS capacity is currently precarious at best. Attendence being down for the third gate is probably a good thing.

 

[NearTheEars]

That's why he rejected Universal, per insiders on OU and other articles as they were just going to replace Terminator with Avatar and not build a land and James Cameron threw a fit as he wanted a full fledge land like Potter. But in the end, I think no matter how physical impressive the land may be, it won't justify the cost overruns and the level of maintenance and the rampant theft of the glowing plants in the parks.

You think people will rip them out of the ground? Well, I guess that wouldn't be too surprising. Look at the walls in the queues. Not sure why board people feel the need to destroy things.

 

[SorcererMC]

more complex than "Bob Iger wakes up every day looking for ways to terrorize us!" And I'm sorry, people that post things like "I went to bed so upset last night and when I got up it was all I could think about!" need some help.

how many crazy, irrational things have been posted about Iger in particular in this thread, you are lying to yourself.

I think there is more to this than "Bob Iger is trying to ruin lives!"

But, just because I'm not leaping to conclusions about Disney executives wanting to ruin my life

All caricatures of the opposing viewpoint = definition of straw man. If it makes you feel better to pretend that there aren't valid reasons to object ToT being changed, whatever floats your boat. Again, it's fine if you disagree, but it's erroneous/ disingenuous to mischaracterize why there is so much objection to it.

 

[fgmnt]

I still have trouble wrapping my head around the logic for this in the Florida park. They have 3 shows in the park that opened in 1992 OR EARLIER, one of the other 4 rides besides ToT is themed based on another licensing agreement, and 70% of the park is under construction, but management has decided to spend the money to change a ride and provide a lateral move at best in terms of improving park capacity and overall guest satisfaction. I guess I am ignorant to all of the details, but there has to be a very perfect storm of external factors for this to make financial sense in the short or long term.

What happened to the company that was happy to tuck its tail between its legs and sit on plans for for 3-4 years on a sure hit like an SWL, but wants to change the icon of one of its 6 domestic main gates without seeing how it's going to work out at DCA? Say guest satisfaction surveys really tank GOTGMB. Are the Bobs going to push it through in Florida anyway? Are they going to shut down the tower before they even open SWL?

 

[PizzaPlanet]

GotG replacing ToT is pretty bad... but it could be worse. We could have Splash be rethemed to Zootopia

That would be the last straw for me.

 

[Phil12]

Except you're wrong. Many changes went for the worse.. see Stitch. or Were redone for the cheap and bad.. (Test track v2, Imagination v2)

I agree with you 100%. Sometimes these changes turn out to be absolutely horrible and no doubt there is risk involved. However, I don't think that is reason enough not to reinvigorate a 22 year old attraction. The generation of the original DHS has ended and it's time for a new generation to begin IMO.

 

[Quinnmac000]

GotG replacing ToT is pretty bad... but it could be worse. We could have Splash be rethemed to Zootopia

Smarter idea which would've made sense was to change Pandora to a full fledge Zootopia...a little too late for that.

 

[AEfx]

All caricatures of the opposing viewpoint = definition of straw man. If it makes you feel better to pretend that there aren't valid reasons to object ToT being changed, whatever floats your boat. Again, it's fine if you disagree, but it's erroneous/ disingenuous to mischaracterize why there is so much objection to it.

I never said that there were not valid reasons for people to be upset. Please stop putting words in my mouth because you want someone to argue with about this. What I have been discussing in this thread are the automatic assumptions that a lot of folks are making about the why it is happening. I believe people are jumping to conclusions on that matter, with no real evidence other than that same old din of evil old Darth Iger.

As I have said, I'd prefer it to stay as-is. I'm not particularly jazzed about GoG period. It was an okay movie. When the next one comes out, I probably won't see it until it comes out on video. That said, because I can separate my intellectual understanding and perception from my preferences, and given that indeed Twilight Zone is in the process of being rebooted as a television franchise, and apparently some (or all? no one seems sure) agreements are up for renewal in 2018, I believe it's deeper than Iger's "vanity" project or part of his "reign of terror" over WDW fans. I don't think they are "breaking" what already works just to stroke his ego.

 

[GoofGoof]

When Johnny Depp was put into Pirates some folks here thought the world was coming to an end. Same thing was true for the M.C. Escher staircase in HM and removal or changes in the signs and dolls in SM. It does matter how big or small the changes are, some folks will find fault. I've learned that the critics are soon forgotten. Perhaps they resign themselves to the changes or they realize they were wrong. I seldom hear people complain about Depp in Pirates nor the ghosts riding home with you in HM. I also think that some of these critics are just embarrassed once they see what a success attractions such as Frozen Ever After have become. I guess it's just the nature of some folks to complain about things over which they have no control

The bottom line is they're going to dump the Twilight Zone. No one is saying that you have to get on board and like the change. You can join the group that will say, "I remember when GotG was perfect back when it was the Twilight Zone". That's fine with me. You've made up your mind that any change will be an abomination.

All I can say is that I expect you are going to be very disappointed. For me, I look forward to the change and I think they'll do a great job.

Please go back and read what I actually wrote. I am not a doom and gloom person here who loses their mind over every little change and constantly complains. If anything I lean towards the pixie dust side still. I didn't have a problem with adding Starbucks in the Bakery on Main Street, I don't have any issues with Avatar in AK (looking forward to it opening soon), I enjoyed a cold beer at BoG in MK (and enjoyed using the Tangled Toilets just after) I actually think FLE overall is pretty decent (Mine Train is a little short but still a huge upgrade over Snow White), I never got the love for Mr Toad (Pooh is a better fit even if the ride itself could be a little better) and I have even come somewhat around to various IPs in EPCOT World Showcase (although I think Frozen would have been better served with a bigger ride with more capacity). You have to be careful in these discussions with quickly labeling all posters as being one extreme or the other. There are plenty of folks here somewhere in the middle. Not everyone here is complaining just to complain. Not in this case.

All that being said, I don't view this as a minor change. It's not just the ride but a whole land being impacted. This isn't just adding Groot in a bell hop costume to the end of the ride. I never said ANY change they made would be an abomination, just this particular change. If they removed everything Twilight Zone IP from the ride but kept the ride itself and the exterior mostly the same I would be more on board. There are probably some creative ways to work a backstory without using the Twilight Zone IP. Then the ride would be "freshened up" without defacing the iconic show building and destroying a whole land that actually works in a park in desperate need of more of everything.

 

[flynnibus]

Wow people... I just gave up and skipped 8 pages because after 6... People still hadn't figured out to stop feeding the trolls. Get some self control and send them back into obscurity.

 

[mickEblu]

The scariest thing about the TOT rumor for DHS is that it makes you realize that now anything is fair game. Jungle Book Cruise? Wouldn't shock me at all. Just about the only things that might be safe are POTC and Mansion (excluding minor "upgrades" and seasonal overlays). So now when I hear Zootopia and Splash Mountain in the same sentence, I actually think it's possible. I have to say, that would probably be a game changer for me as well. I would not renew my AP and probably be content visiting the park once every few years.

On another note, I guess the last thing any Haunted Mansion fan wants to see is a successful Haunted Mansion movie.

 

[The Empress Lilly]

I never said that there were not valid reasons for people to be upset. Please stop putting words in my mouth because you want someone to argue with about this. What I have been discussing in this thread are the automatic assumptions that a lot of folks are making about the why it is happening. I believe people are jumping to conclusions on that matter, with no real evidence other than that same old din of evil old Darth Iger.

As I have said, I'd prefer it to stay as-is. I'm not particularly jazzed about GoG period. It was an okay movie. When the next one comes out, I probably won't see it until it comes out on video. That said, because I can separate my intellectual understanding and perception from my preferences, and given that indeed Twilight Zone is in the process of being rebooted as a television franchise, and apparently some (or all? no one seems sure) agreements are up for renewal in 2018, I believe it's deeper than Iger's "vanity" project or part of his "reign of terror" over WDW fans. I don't think they are "breaking" what already works just to stroke his ego.

But ToT can remove every reference to the TZ in one overnight shift and it would be weeks before anybody would even notice.

 

[Beholder]

I never said that there were not valid reasons for people to be upset. Please stop putting words in my mouth because you want someone to argue with about this. What I have been discussing in this thread are the automatic assumptions that a lot of folks are making about the why it is happening. I believe people are jumping to conclusions on that matter, with no real evidence other than that same old din of evil old Darth Iger.

As I have said, I'd prefer it to stay as-is. I'm not particularly jazzed about GoG period. It was an okay movie. When the next one comes out, I probably won't see it until it comes out on video. That said, because I can separate my intellectual understanding and perception from my preferences, and given that indeed Twilight Zone is in the process of being rebooted as a television franchise, and apparently some (or all? no one seems sure) agreements are up for renewal in 2018, I believe it's deeper than Iger's "vanity" project or part of his "reign of terror" over WDW fans. I don't think they are "breaking" what already works just to stroke his ego.

I've thought about the things you've said, in this post particularly, and I believe I understand and agree with the reasoning behind your "argument", and in doing so I've come to some conclusions of my own, about why perhaps "we" feel the way we do. Disney isn't a place or business that taps into our rational thought processes, it goes straight for our emotions, the significance we place on our so called memories, and the power of nastolgia alone causes me to abandon reason at times. The most enduring memories I have of my paternal grandparents are at Magic Kingdom. That alone has elevated Disney into a position of almost sanctity, completely off limits to random change, it's a keeper of sorts of some of my fondest memories. I agree that change is inevitable, necessary even, at times, but not always. I would not dare compare a world heritage site, such as the pyramid of Cheops or any number of Native American Indian Mound sites, to a theme park attraction, but only to illustrate that age alone should not be a determining factor as to wether or not an idea or structure be "updated" or altogether replaced. I know history places those sites into an entirely different context, so please don't misunderstand my intent. Again, I agree in principle of what you say, I just wanted to perhaps explain, for myself, the "why" of my position.

Thank you

 

[The Empress Lilly]

I've thought about the things you've said, in this post particularly, and I believe I understand and agree with the reasoning behind your "argument", and in doing so I've come to some conclusions of my own, about why perhaps "we" feel the way we do. Disney isn't a place or business that taps into our rational thought processes, it goes straight for our emotions, the significance we place on our so called memories, and the power of nostalgia alone causes me to abandon reason at times. The most enduring memories I have of my paternal grandparents are at Magic Kingdom. That alone has elevated Disney into a position of almost sanctity, completely off limits to random change, it's a keeper of sorts of some of my fondest memories. I agree that change is inevitable, necessary even, at times, but not always. I would not dare compare a world heritage site, such as the pyramid of Cheops or any number of Native American Indian Mound sites, to a theme park attraction, but only to illustrate that age alone should not be a determining factor as to wether or not an idea or structure be "updated" or altogether replaced. I know history places those sites into an entirely different context, so please don't misunderstand my intent. Again, I agree in principle of what you say, I just wanted to perhaps explain, for myself, the "why" of my position.

Thank you

Why wouldn't the Disney parks be world heritage sites? Disneyland is one of the most striking, most American, most famous expressions of the 20th century USA.

In Vienna they have an amusement park that dates back to 1766, some attractions date back to the 19th century. The Wurstelprater, it is considered a cultural institute, part of the cultural landscape of Vienna.


If Disney destroys its heritage, it runs the risk of losing its status as America's default amusement park, a cultural mainstay like apple pie and baseball, a rite of passage for many. Universal would wish it had the history and heritage of Disney, meanwhile Disney for its part wantonly destroys it to resemble Universal more.

 

[SorcererMC]

I never said that there were not valid reasons for people to be upset. Please stop putting words in my mouth because you want someone to argue with about this. What I have been discussing in this thread are the automatic assumptions that a lot of folks are making about the why it is happening. I believe people are jumping to conclusions on that matter, with no real evidence other than that same old din of evil old Darth Iger.

As I have said, I'd prefer it to stay as-is. I'm not particularly jazzed about GoG period. It was an okay movie. When the next one comes out, I probably won't see it until it comes out on video. That said, because I can separate my intellectual understanding and perception from my preferences, and given that indeed Twilight Zone is in the process of being rebooted as a television franchise, and apparently some (or all? no one seems sure) agreements are up for renewal in 2018, I believe it's deeper than Iger's "vanity" project or part of his "reign of terror" over WDW fans. I don't think they are "breaking" what already works just to stroke his ego.

I have no such need to argue. Your comments speak for themselves and you can have the last word. I frequently agree with you on many issues, and I truly hope that there are logical reasons for a change on this scale; I don't object at all to you making points about the status of the licensing/ franchise.

 

[lazyboy97o]

I never said that there were not valid reasons for people to be upset. Please stop putting words in my mouth because you want someone to argue with about this. What I have been discussing in this thread are the automatic assumptions that a lot of folks are making about the why it is happening. I believe people are jumping to conclusions on that matter, with no real evidence other than that same old din of evil old Darth Iger.

As I have said, I'd prefer it to stay as-is. I'm not particularly jazzed about GoG period. It was an okay movie. When the next one comes out, I probably won't see it until it comes out on video. That said, because I can separate my intellectual understanding and perception from my preferences, and given that indeed Twilight Zone is in the process of being rebooted as a television franchise, and apparently some (or all? no one seems sure) agreements are up for renewal in 2018, I believe it's deeper than Iger's "vanity" project or part of his "reign of terror" over WDW fans. I don't think they are "breaking" what already works just to stroke his ego.

You're accusing others of jumping to nonsense motivations when nobody of repute has mentioned licensing as an issue. You're essentially doing the same thing you keep ranting about.

 

[Fox&Hound]

Why wouldn't the Disney parks be world heritage sites? Disneyland is one of the most striking, most American, most famous expressions of the 20th century USA.

In Vienna they have an amusement park that dates back to 1766, some attractions date back to the 19th century. The Wurstelprater, it is considered a cultural institute, part of the cultural landscape of Vienna.


If Disney destroys its heritage, it runs the risk of losing its status as America's default amusement park, a cultural mainstay like apple pie and baseball, a rite of passage for many. Universal would wish it had the history and heritage of Disney, meanwhile Disney for its part wantonly destroys it to resemble Universal more.

Wow-beautifully stated......