RSoxNo1
Well-Known Member
I think @marni1971 could.Do you think you could pull off a muscle top?
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A Spirited Valentine ...
- Thread starter WDW1974
- Start date
BrianLo
Well-Known Member
I sure hope it's about as far from their radar as possible.
They have a solid 2 and a half parks in various states of disrepair. Even after this round of investments two parks (AK and DHS) will be too light on attractions. Epcot will have some untouched attractions needing attention and MK will arguably be 2-3 people eaters short of the capacity they need.
There is also 3-4 other resorts far more ready to build another gate that Disney has been way too skittish on. I'd say WDW is about 5th or 6th in line.
Is there a plot of land earmarked? Ya, probably. But, I imagine that's as far as it goes.
solidyne
Well-Known Member
We're already getting a fifth gate. It's being built right over top of the third!
BrianLo
Well-Known Member
If we're using the Universal system, the fifth gate was built in 1995.
bclane
Well-Known Member
I like the idea of a Disney Villians park for a future 5th gate.
UpAllNight
Well-Known Member
I find it easier to spend 2 full days in Epcot, Animal Kingdom and Magic Kingdom than I do at Universal Studios.
Some of it is largely down to crowds, but if you turn up to Universal Studios early you can blitz through the first half of the park really easy, and there's nothing in the second half of the park. So the rest of the morning, afternoon and evening is multiple rerides. Disney do shows so much better than Universal and that helps bulk out the days. I also find there's more side streets, winding paths and smaller attractions to explore at Disney. In Epcot there's the unique shops, menus and entertainment in world showcase. In AK the animal exhibits.
Many won't agree but I find screen based rides, in general, to be less re rideable. Obviously there's exceptions....I could live on the Spider-Man ride. I love FJ but my body needs a rest after a few goes. But at US once I've been on Fallon, Despicable Me, Simpsons once, despite enjoying them, I have no desire to do them again.
DHS is another story altogether. That parks a disgrace and is saved by Tower of Terror and a good line up of nighttime offerings to keep people sticking around. We turned up just after opening & were greeted by 120 minute waits for Rock n Rollercoaster & 90 min Midway Mania....so just the 20 year old shows to keep us occupied until our fast passes then.
Some of it is largely down to crowds, but if you turn up to Universal Studios early you can blitz through the first half of the park really easy, and there's nothing in the second half of the park. So the rest of the morning, afternoon and evening is multiple rerides. Disney do shows so much better than Universal and that helps bulk out the days. I also find there's more side streets, winding paths and smaller attractions to explore at Disney. In Epcot there's the unique shops, menus and entertainment in world showcase. In AK the animal exhibits.
Many won't agree but I find screen based rides, in general, to be less re rideable. Obviously there's exceptions....I could live on the Spider-Man ride. I love FJ but my body needs a rest after a few goes. But at US once I've been on Fallon, Despicable Me, Simpsons once, despite enjoying them, I have no desire to do them again.
DHS is another story altogether. That parks a disgrace and is saved by Tower of Terror and a good line up of nighttime offerings to keep people sticking around. We turned up just after opening & were greeted by 120 minute waits for Rock n Rollercoaster & 90 min Midway Mania....so just the 20 year old shows to keep us occupied until our fast passes then.
ford91exploder
Resident Curmudgeon
That’s the magic of Disneyland. You might come to Disneyland for Mickey Mouse but it’s the dinosaurs that you stay for.
I’ll soon be headed to Walt Disney World to visit the cousins of these Disneyland Railroad dinosaurs at Epcot (expect some Walt Disney World posts here soon!). The last-minute trip is to catch a final ride on a couple attractions Disney is closing to make way for new experiences. At Epcot, a Guardians of the Galaxy-themed ride will be installed in the current Universe of Energy pavilion, where the dinos serve as a major scene in a ride about our planet’s energy. It’s a shame that Disney is seemingly no longer interested in creating attractions that both entertain and educate their guests through extraordinary experiences, but at least these guys continue to live on at Disneyland.
At least the DL crowd gets it. "Go for Mickey, stay for the dinosaurs". Just when DL re-opens its dinorama, looking better than ever with new effects, the WDW version - the superior one - is on the brink of being destroyed.
Why oh why did these barbarians have to take over our parks?
Because Eisner did not fire Iger in time, he wanted to because he found while Iger had solid financial skills he was utterly berift of creativity and worse he had no respect for creatives or the creative process.
Or more likely Disney will do nothing at all
Mike S
Well-Known Member
Or if you go by ads in the U.K.
NearTheEars
Well-Known Member
I'm guessing it will look a lot like the Simpsons land. Colorful and plastic-y.
I don't expect to feel "immersed" in the world of Nintendo when walking through the area because that would be pretty hard to pull off. But the attractions themselves might do the trick.
GoofGoof
Premium Member
Agreed. That's how I was picturing it too. The rides should be a lot of fun and the characters have a lot of appeal for kids too. Even though it's probably coming off that way, I'm really not trying to be down on Nintendo land at all. I just need to see the finished product before I'll be sold on it being an epic success worthy of potentially anchoring a 3rd gate (or 4th if you go by Universal's website which is still calling VB their third park).
Mike S
Well-Known Member
It'll be way above the level of Simpsons.
the.dreamfinder
Well-Known Member
Re Fifth Gate talk:
So, whether a fifth gate should, or should not, be built hinges on two important points.
First, the offerings and capacity of theme parks. A couple pages ago someone asked if Discovery Cove is a full day experience, it is. Discovery Cove happens to be the best theme park right now in Orlando because it is thematically consistent throughout and asks its guests to slow down and deeply engage with its offerings. If you were to 'park commando' Discovery Cove, you would be done well before closing, but you'd miss so much. Discovery Cove is about slowly absorbing everything around you and being rewarded for those special little things scattered throughout the areas like the walking and the snorkeling paths. This is not a park where you can or should be checking your phone, aside from using it to take pictures. Discovery Cove is very much in the tradition of the classic Disney theme parks of olde.
This is in contrast to the current parks that are heavily predicated on forcing guests to become 'park commandos' with attraction line ups that are heavy on the thrills and/or low on capacity. With the decision to close The Great Movie Ride at DHS, it appears that at the heart of Disney's thinking is the belief that the problem with pre redo DHS was stale offerings with large swaths of the park not pulling in enough revenue, not capacity. I know I'm preaching to the choir on this, but swapping TGMR for Mickey is so pigheaded because the park needs to compensate for losing all the backlot attractions AND the massive crowds SWGE will attract to the park. The revenue/staleness problem is solved, but capacity hasn't been increased or has seen a net decline.
If Disney continues to build its parks the way they have, they will need a fifth gate in the 2020's. Folks crow about the half day/full day issue, but the Magic Kingdom and EPCOT Center are/were two day parks. Disney won't need to build a fifth gate in Florida provided they invest in the capacity and design of parks that each have two days worth of offerings for guests. IP isn't the solution to Disney's problems, creating guest efficient, thematically rich spaces that demand your full attention are. That's the key to WWoHP's continued success and the real test for SNW and SWGE.
Second, what's the theme? IP multiplex parks are great in the short term. They allow their owners to be responsive to the popular properties that guest want to see in the parks. However, these spaces either are built on the cheap using interchangeable assets like theaters or simulators, as is the case with DM and Simpsons, or give guests thematic whiplash as they move from land to land. Theme parks are just that, parks predicated on a theme with a clear and understandable thesis. Theme Parks succeed in the long term because they can be spaces that generations of guests can share. That's why a still underbuilt park like DAK gets as much love as it does because guests clearly understand what it's about and can engage with it to whatever level of depth they choose. How many guests could tell you IoA is a theme park celebrating works on the printed page? Despite Epcot's decline over the past 20 years, people still know what it's about and would likely welcome its return to form over turning it into MK 2.0. Disney used to fight for new generations of guests to add to their multi-generation spaces. The UNI/IP multiplex model can only really focus on one generation at a time or lest it be seen as stale.
The discussion around the 5th and 3rd gates is so telling because no one can offer a better answer than "villains park" or "they have the rights to x y and z".
So, unless something changes, we're going to be put into a future where these gates will have to be built, yet they will be thematically inert spaces entirely dependent on IP de jour. This is bad business and it's not the theme parks people who enjoy them deserve.
Additionally, there's a whole lot more to it than that, like urban planning which both resorts are handling very poorly, but that's enough for a lazy Saturday morning.
So, whether a fifth gate should, or should not, be built hinges on two important points.
First, the offerings and capacity of theme parks. A couple pages ago someone asked if Discovery Cove is a full day experience, it is. Discovery Cove happens to be the best theme park right now in Orlando because it is thematically consistent throughout and asks its guests to slow down and deeply engage with its offerings. If you were to 'park commando' Discovery Cove, you would be done well before closing, but you'd miss so much. Discovery Cove is about slowly absorbing everything around you and being rewarded for those special little things scattered throughout the areas like the walking and the snorkeling paths. This is not a park where you can or should be checking your phone, aside from using it to take pictures. Discovery Cove is very much in the tradition of the classic Disney theme parks of olde.
This is in contrast to the current parks that are heavily predicated on forcing guests to become 'park commandos' with attraction line ups that are heavy on the thrills and/or low on capacity. With the decision to close The Great Movie Ride at DHS, it appears that at the heart of Disney's thinking is the belief that the problem with pre redo DHS was stale offerings with large swaths of the park not pulling in enough revenue, not capacity. I know I'm preaching to the choir on this, but swapping TGMR for Mickey is so pigheaded because the park needs to compensate for losing all the backlot attractions AND the massive crowds SWGE will attract to the park. The revenue/staleness problem is solved, but capacity hasn't been increased or has seen a net decline.
If Disney continues to build its parks the way they have, they will need a fifth gate in the 2020's. Folks crow about the half day/full day issue, but the Magic Kingdom and EPCOT Center are/were two day parks. Disney won't need to build a fifth gate in Florida provided they invest in the capacity and design of parks that each have two days worth of offerings for guests. IP isn't the solution to Disney's problems, creating guest efficient, thematically rich spaces that demand your full attention are. That's the key to WWoHP's continued success and the real test for SNW and SWGE.
Second, what's the theme? IP multiplex parks are great in the short term. They allow their owners to be responsive to the popular properties that guest want to see in the parks. However, these spaces either are built on the cheap using interchangeable assets like theaters or simulators, as is the case with DM and Simpsons, or give guests thematic whiplash as they move from land to land. Theme parks are just that, parks predicated on a theme with a clear and understandable thesis. Theme Parks succeed in the long term because they can be spaces that generations of guests can share. That's why a still underbuilt park like DAK gets as much love as it does because guests clearly understand what it's about and can engage with it to whatever level of depth they choose. How many guests could tell you IoA is a theme park celebrating works on the printed page? Despite Epcot's decline over the past 20 years, people still know what it's about and would likely welcome its return to form over turning it into MK 2.0. Disney used to fight for new generations of guests to add to their multi-generation spaces. The UNI/IP multiplex model can only really focus on one generation at a time or lest it be seen as stale.
The discussion around the 5th and 3rd gates is so telling because no one can offer a better answer than "villains park" or "they have the rights to x y and z".
So, unless something changes, we're going to be put into a future where these gates will have to be built, yet they will be thematically inert spaces entirely dependent on IP de jour. This is bad business and it's not the theme parks people who enjoy them deserve.
Additionally, there's a whole lot more to it than that, like urban planning which both resorts are handling very poorly, but that's enough for a lazy Saturday morning.
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EricsBiscuit
Well-Known Member
There are 4 stages of the Disney fan community: initial outcry, prolonged pessimism, experiencing the attraction, loving the attraction. Check GotG:MB and FEA
the.dreamfinder
Well-Known Member
Are people going to want to do those things in 20+ years?
The_Jobu
Well-Known Member
There's plenty of examples where that last bit doesn't happen.
Mike S
Well-Known Member
So, what Universal's always been and Shanghai Disneyland?
the.dreamfinder
Well-Known Member
Disney's long term success has been predicated on creating timeless spaces accesible to multiple generations of guests. They are capable of accommodating the new, only if it can be timeless.
I'm not saying the UNI model isn't valid, but it sacrifices so much.
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Mike S
Well-Known Member
Indeed it does but as I've said before I'm done fighting. The one two punch of Gaurdians and Ratatouille did it to me.
the.dreamfinder
Well-Known Member
Succession provides a chance to change things. This conversation needs to be kept alive.
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Mike S
Well-Known Member
And I'm sure it will be kept alive. I'm just done being angry about it.