A Spirited Valentine ...

No Name

No Name

Well-Known Member
the.dreamfinder said:
Re Fifth Gate talk:
So, whether a fifth gate should, or should not, be built hinges on two important points.

First, the offerings and capacity of theme parks. A couple pages ago someone asked if Discovery Cove is a full day experience, it is. Discovery Cove happens to be the best theme park right now in Orlando because it is thematically consistent throughout and asks its guests to slow down and deeply engage with its offerings. If you were to 'park commando' Discovery Cove, you would be done well before closing, but you'd miss so much. Discovery Cove is about slowly absorbing everything around you and being rewarded for those special little things scattered throughout the areas like the walking and the snorkeling paths. This is not a park where you can or should be checking your phone, aside from using it to take pictures. Discovery Cove is very much in the tradition of the classic Disney theme parks of olde.

This is in contrast to the current parks that are heavily predicated on forcing guests to become 'park commandos' with attraction line ups that are heavy on the thrills and/or low on capacity. With the decision to close The Great Movie Ride at DHS, it appears that at the heart of Disney's thinking is the belief that the problem with pre redo DHS was stale offerings with large swaths of the park not pulling in enough revenue, not capacity. I know I'm preaching to the choir on this, but swapping TGMR for Mickey is so pigheaded because the park needs to compensate for losing all the backlot attractions AND the massive crowds SWGE will attract to the park. The revenue/staleness problem is solved, but capacity hasn't been increased or has seen a net decline.

If Disney continues to build its parks the way they have, they will need a fifth gate in the 2020's. Folks crow about the half day/full day issue, but the Magic Kingdom and EPCOT Center are/were two day parks. Disney won't need to build a fifth gate in Florida provided they invest in the capacity and design of parks that each have two days worth of offerings for guests. IP isn't the solution to Disney's problems, creating guest efficient, thematically rich spaces that demand your full attention are. That's the key to WWoHP's continued success and the real test for SNW and SWGE.

Second, what's the theme? IP multiplex parks are great in the short term. They allow their owners to be responsive to the popular properties that guest want to see in the parks. However, these spaces either are built on the cheap using interchangeable assests like theaters or simulators, as is the case with DM and Simpsons, or give guests thematic whiplash as they move from land to land. Theme parks are just that, parks predicated on a theme with a clear and understandable thesis. Theme Parks succeed in the long term because they can be spaces that generations of guests can share. That's why a still underbuilt park like DAK gets as much love as it does because guests clearly understand what it's about and can engage with it to whatever level of depth they choose. How many guests could tell you IoA is a theme park celebrating works on the printed page? Despite Epcot's decline over the past 20 years, people still know what it's about and would likely welcome its return to form over turning it into MK 2.0. Disney used to fight for new generations of guests to add to their multi-generation spaces. The UNI/IP multiplex model can only really focus on one generation at a time or lest it be seen as stale.

The discussion around the 5th and 3rd gates is so telling because no one can offer a better answer than "villains park" or "they have the rights to x y and z".

So, unless something changes, we're going to be put into a future where these gates will have to be built, yet they will be thematically inert spaces entirely dependent on IP de jour. This is bad business and it's not the theme parks people who enjoy them deserve.

Additionally, there's a whole lot more to it than that, like urban planning which both resorts are handling very poorly, but that's enough for a lazy Saturday morning.
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I usually simply like a post if it's good. But this is so good that it deserves a reply saying, "this is so good."

becca_ said:
https://twitter.com/ORLParkPass/status/893570955938861056

Anyone know of any truth to this tweet?
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That would make my day if true. Obviously it's only temporary, but temporary is better than nothing.
 
ford91exploder

ford91exploder

Resident Curmudgeon
AJH219 said:
There's no reason SoAT can't be re-opened. Its practically been sitting un-touched since it closed last fall.
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Why other than financial reasons it was shut down after losing sponsorship was a complete mystery to me, it would have made sense if Raytheon owned the Kuka arms, But since it appears Disney owns or leases the hardware just more financial engineering from TDO.

SoaT was massively popular and for us at least a 'Must Do'.
 
ford91exploder

ford91exploder

Resident Curmudgeon
the.dreamfinder said:
In the same boat with you there. Acceptance and pushing for a better future with a positive vision of what theme parks can be is the healthiest approach.
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Yet unrealistic based on TDO's actions in the recent past, The more realistic path is to refuse to give TDO money and roast them on every public forum one can find. Sadly the 'Starve the Beast' approach is the only one with any realistic chance of changing TDO's behavior.

In the meantime there are the Japanese parks to visit. And the wonder that is Japan outside the parks and sadly it costs LESS to travel to Japan and stay in a real 4 star hotel than it does for the equivalent time in da swamps..

Yes you give Disney a small amount of money that way but in that case you are giving Disney tens of dollars as opposed to thousands of dollars.
 
mimitchi33

mimitchi33

Well-Known Member
The_Jobu said:
SImpsons land does have some really nice attention to details. Like the Bort license plates in the gift shop. The bad cheque names on the cash register. The El Barto graffiti.
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I was actually tempted to buy the Bort Keychain during my last trip.
As for a possible fifth gate, my guess would go to an American equivlent of Tokyo DisneySea, Disney's America, or something related to Walt's visions in some way.
 
RSoxNo1

RSoxNo1

Well-Known Member
BrianLo said:
I sure hope it's about as far from their radar as possible.

They have a solid 2 and a half parks in various states of disrepair. Even after this round of investments two parks (AK and DHS) will be too light on attractions. Epcot will have some untouched attractions needing attention and MK will arguably be 2-3 people eaters short of the capacity they need.

There is also 3-4 other resorts far more ready to build another gate that Disney has been way too skittish on. I'd say WDW is about 5th or 6th in line.

Is there a plot of land earmarked? Ya, probably. But, I imagine that's as far as it goes.
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I would say that Disneyland needs a 3rd park today. Disney World is 10 years worth of updates on all four parks away before they should be talking about a 5th gate.
 
WDW1974

WDW1974

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
Just a note to my 'fans' and, more importantly, to the folks here I respect and enjoy talking about Disney and the business with, but I am done with this thread. No idea what is being talked about. Probably the latest Marvel film and how Bob Iger is a much better human being than Walt Disney ever was.

Look for news, rumors, analysis, observations and opinions by yours truly in 'A Spirited 15 Rounds' coming to a MAGICal realm like this one later this week.

The starting point will be Shanghai and what, if anything, it means to WDW's future (a lot more than a poorly decided on Tron clone it seems).
 
brb1006

brb1006

Well-Known Member
Spirit's next thread coming this week is going to be good. Can't wait to hear more of his thoughts.
tenor.gif
 
NearTheEars

NearTheEars

Well-Known Member
WDW1974 said:
Just a note to my 'fans' and, more importantly, to the folks here I respect and enjoy talking about Disney and the business with, but I am done with this thread. No idea what is being talked about. Probably the latest Marvel film and how Bob Iger is a much better human being than Walt Disney ever was.

Look for news, rumors, analysis, observations and opinions by yours truly in 'A Spirited 15 Rounds' coming to a MAGICal realm like this one later this week.

The starting point will be Shanghai and what, if anything, it means to WDW's future (a lot more than a poorly decided on Tron clone it seems).
Click to expand...

Nothing over that 10 or so pages you'd probably care about. Just killing time.
 
F

floridagirl57

Active Member
the.dreamfinder said:
Re Fifth Gate talk:
So, whether a fifth gate should, or should not, be built hinges on two important points.

First, the offerings and capacity of theme parks. A couple pages ago someone asked if Discovery Cove is a full day experience, it is. Discovery Cove happens to be the best theme park right now in Orlando because it is thematically consistent throughout and asks its guests to slow down and deeply engage with its offerings. If you were to 'park commando' Discovery Cove, you would be done well before closing, but you'd miss so much. Discovery Cove is about slowly absorbing everything around you and being rewarded for those special little things scattered throughout the areas like the walking and the snorkeling paths. This is not a park where you can or should be checking your phone, aside from using it to take pictures. Discovery Cove is very much in the tradition of the classic Disney theme parks of olde.

This is in contrast to the current parks that are heavily predicated on forcing guests to become 'park commandos' with attraction line ups that are heavy on the thrills and/or low on capacity. With the decision to close The Great Movie Ride at DHS, it appears that at the heart of Disney's thinking is the belief that the problem with pre redo DHS was stale offerings with large swaths of the park not pulling in enough revenue, not capacity. I know I'm preaching to the choir on this, but swapping TGMR for Mickey is so pigheaded because the park needs to compensate for losing all the backlot attractions AND the massive crowds SWGE will attract to the park. The revenue/staleness problem is solved, but capacity hasn't been increased or has seen a net decline.

If Disney continues to build its parks the way they have, they will need a fifth gate in the 2020's. Folks crow about the half day/full day issue, but the Magic Kingdom and EPCOT Center are/were two day parks. Disney won't need to build a fifth gate in Florida provided they invest in the capacity and design of parks that each have two days worth of offerings for guests. IP isn't the solution to Disney's problems, creating guest efficient, thematically rich spaces that demand your full attention are. That's the key to WWoHP's continued success and the real test for SNW and SWGE.

Second, what's the theme? IP multiplex parks are great in the short term. They allow their owners to be responsive to the popular properties that guest want to see in the parks. However, these spaces either are built on the cheap using interchangeable assets like theaters or simulators, as is the case with DM and Simpsons, or give guests thematic whiplash as they move from land to land. Theme parks are just that, parks predicated on a theme with a clear and understandable thesis. Theme Parks succeed in the long term because they can be spaces that generations of guests can share. That's why a still underbuilt park like DAK gets as much love as it does because guests clearly understand what it's about and can engage with it to whatever level of depth they choose. How many guests could tell you IoA is a theme park celebrating works on the printed page? Despite Epcot's decline over the past 20 years, people still know what it's about and would likely welcome its return to form over turning it into MK 2.0. Disney used to fight for new generations of guests to add to their multi-generation spaces. The UNI/IP multiplex model can only really focus on one generation at a time or lest it be seen as stale.

The discussion around the 5th and 3rd gates is so telling because no one can offer a better answer than "villains park" or "they have the rights to x y and z".

So, unless something changes, we're going to be put into a future where these gates will have to be built, yet they will be thematically inert spaces entirely dependent on IP de jour. This is bad business and it's not the theme parks people who enjoy them deserve.

Additionally, there's a whole lot more to it than that, like urban planning which both resorts are handling very poorly, but that's enough for a lazy Saturday morning.
Click to expand...

I am ashamed to admit I've been to IOA several times and literally never grasped that concept. It makes so much sense now......
 

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