A Spirited Valentine ...

[the.dreamfinder]

And I'm sure it will be kept alive. I'm just done being angry about it.

In the same boat with you there. Acceptance and pushing for a better future with a positive vision of what theme parks can be is the healthiest approach.

 

[The Empress Lilly]

Re Fifth Gate talk:
So, whether a fifth gate should, or should not, be built hinges on two important points.

First, the offerings and capacity of theme parks. A couple pages ago someone asked if Discovery Cove is a full day experience, it is. Discovery Cove happens to be the best theme park right now in Orlando because it is thematically consistent throughout and asks its guests to slow down and deeply engage with its offerings. If you were to 'park commando' Discovery Cove, you would be done well before closing, but you'd miss so much. Discovery Cove is about slowly absorbing everything around you and being rewarded for those special little things scattered throughout the areas like the walking and the snorkeling paths. This is not a park where you can or should be checking your phone, aside from using it to take pictures. Discovery Cove is very much in the tradition of the classic Disney theme parks of olde.

This is in contrast to the current parks that are heavily predicated on forcing guests to become 'park commandos' with attraction line ups that are heavy on the thrills and/or low on capacity. With the decision to close The Great Movie Ride at DHS, it appears that at the heart of Disney's thinking is the belief that the problem with pre redo DHS was stale offerings with large swaths of the park not pulling in enough revenue, not capacity. I know I'm preaching to the choir on this, but swapping TGMR for Mickey is so pigheaded because the park needs to compensate for losing all the backlot attractions AND the massive crowds SWGE will attract to the park. The revenue/staleness problem is solved, but capacity hasn't been increased or has seen a net decline.

If Disney continues to build its parks the way they have, they will need a fifth gate in the 2020's. Folks crow about the half day/full day issue, but the Magic Kingdom and EPCOT Center are/were two day parks. Disney won't need to build a fifth gate in Florida provided they invest in the capacity and design of parks that each have two days worth of offerings for guests. IP isn't the solution to Disney's problems, creating guest efficient, thematically rich spaces that demand your full attention are. That's the key to WWoHP's continued success and the real test for SNW and SWGE.

Second, what's the theme? IP multiplex parks are great in the short term. They allow their owners to be responsive to the popular properties that guest want to see in the parks. However, these spaces either are built on the cheap using interchangeable assests like theaters or simulators, as in the case with DM and Simpsons, or give guests thematic whiplash as they move from land to land. Theme parks that are just that, parks predicated on a theme with a clear and understandable thesis, succeed in the long term because they can be spaces that generations of guests can share. That's why a still underbuilt park like DAK gets as much love as it does because guests clearly understand what it's about and can engage with it to whatever level of depth they choose. How many guests could tell you IoA is a theme park celebrating works on the printed page? Despite Epcot's decline over the past 20 years, people still know what it's about and would likely welcome its return to form over turning it into MK 2.0 long term. Disney used to fight for generations of guests to add to their multi generation spaces. The UNI/IP multiplex model can only really focus on one generation at a time or lest it be seen as stale.

The discussion around the 5th and 3rd gates is so telling because no one can offer a better answer than "villains park" or "they have the rights to x y and z".

So, unless something changes, we're going to put into a future where these gates will have to be built, yet they will be thematically inert spaces entirely dependent on IP de jour. This is bad business and it's not the theme parks people who enjoy them deserve.

Additionally, there's a whole lot more to it than that, like urban planning which both resorts are handling very poorly, but that's enough for a lazy Saturday morning.

Ha! You write a single sentence sarcastic comment decrying the latest TDO nonsense and you get 4000 likes. And then you write a super thoughtful and insightful long essay and three people read it and two give it a like.

(But do we all insist the hardcore Disney fans have long attention spans and long for edutainment rather than the easy instant thrill... )

 

[ford91exploder]

Succession provide a chance to change things. This conversation needs to be kept alive.

The only problem is that there is no sucession, As long as Wall S loves Iger he's staying as the BoD will make it more than worthwhile not to leave,

The only hope of prying Iger free from Disney is a stock price crash and that would have all kinds of negative knock on effects on the parks

Other that i dont see him out till 2022-3

 

[Kman101]

And I'm sure it will be kept alive. I'm just done being angry about it.

That's where I'm at. We were fighting a losing battle lol

 

[lazyboy97o]

There are 4 stages of the Disney fan community: initial outcry, prolonged pessimism, experiencing the attraction, loving the attraction. Check GotG:MB and FEA

This has what to do with his post?

So, what Universal's always been and Shanghai Disneyland?

Universal Studios has never been a cultural icon like Disneyland or EPCOT Center.

The organizational mess that is Shanghai Disneyland very much comes out of the Universal model that is overly focused on a few marquee attractions.

 

[Nj4mwc]

I find it easier to spend 2 full days in Epcot, Animal Kingdom and Magic Kingdom than I do at Universal Studios.

Some of it is largely down to crowds, but if you turn up to Universal Studios early you can blitz through the first half of the park really easy, and there's nothing in the second half of the park. So the rest of the morning, afternoon and evening is multiple rerides. Disney do shows so much better than Universal and that helps bulk out the days. I also find there's more side streets, winding paths and smaller attractions to explore at Disney. In Epcot there's the unique shops, menus and entertainment in world showcase. In AK the animal exhibits.

Many won't agree but I find screen based rides, in general, to be less re rideable. Obviously there's exceptions....I could live on the Spider-Man ride. I love FJ but my body needs a rest after a few goes. But at US once I've been on Fallon, Despicable Me, Simpsons once, despite enjoying them, I have no desire to do them again.

DHS is another story altogether. That parks a disgrace and is saved by Tower of Terror and a good line up of nighttime offerings to keep people sticking around. We turned up just after opening & were greeted by 120 minute waits for Rock n Rollercoaster & 90 min Midway Mania....so just the 20 year old shows to keep us occupied until our fast passes then.

I could spend the rest of my life in Moe's Tavern drinking Duff with no reason to ever leave

 

[The_Jobu]

I could spend the rest of my life in Moe's Tavern drinking Duff with no reason to ever leave

SImpsons land does have some really nice attention to details. Like the Bort license plates in the gift shop. The bad cheque names on the cash register. The El Barto graffiti.

 

[the.dreamfinder]

The organizational mess that is Shanghai Disneyland very much comes out of the Universal model that is overly focused on a few marquee attractions.

I know you were there opening week, but did you see any older guests at the park? And if so, what was their level of engagement with the park?

 

[Kman101]

I like Springfield enough for what it is. Moe's is great. Kwik-E-Mart is great. It's just a small area stretched out on a street. Selfishly I'd like to have had a bit more but they did a nice job with what they had.

 

[Nubs70]

With all this 5th gate talk for Disney, does anyone think TDO has plans, even loose ideas for a 5th? Or are they just trying to get their "stuff" together before they even think about it?

They need to shut DHS, crash construction timelines to complete construction in earliest possible fashion, then reopen as a complete park. WDW needs to stop these never ending closure/partial park syndrome.

 

[becca_]

https://twitter.com/ORLParkPass/status/893570955938861056

Anyone know of any truth to this tweet?

 

[Mike S]

Universal Studios has never been a cultural icon like Disneyland or EPCOT Center.

The organizational mess that is Shanghai Disneyland very much comes out of the Universal model that is overly focused on a few marquee attractions.

That's kind of the point I was making, hence why I bolded the "thematically inert space dependent on IP" bit. That was always Uni's schtick and always will be.

 

[MisterPenguin]

They need to shut DHS, crash construction timelines to complete construction in earliest possible fashion, then reopen as a complete park. WDW needs to stop these never ending closure/partial park syndrome.

So that the same folks slamming WDW for a half-day park can slam WDW for laying off hundreds of employees?

https://twitter.com/ORLParkPass/status/893570955938861056

Anyone know of any truth to this tweet?

If it is true, then they can rename 'Innoventions' to 'Innovention.'

 

[brb1006]

Nintendo is so powerful as a brand that the announcement of Super Nintendo World in JAPAN was covered by most media in the world. Even Disney can't get that kind of coverage unless its a new park opening. The NES Classic also proved that its not just a nerd phenomenon as the NES Classic demand totally eclipsed what a "geek" product would command.

Last, remember the reaction the Japanese prime minister got when he popped out of the pipe a la Mario at the 2016 Olympic closing ceremony?

Not to mention how dedicated the Earthbound fanbase is. Never underestimate the power of Nintendo, especially with the existence of Super Smash Brothers.

 

[brb1006]

 

[lazyboy97o]

I know you were there opening week, but did you see any older guests at the park? And if so, what was their level of engagement with the park?

Given the Chinese love of taking pictures, my not speaking the language and the general circumstances of my visit, any comment would probably verge on baseless speculation.

 

[BrianLo]

So, what Universal's always been and Shanghai Disneyland?

Shanghai isn't thematically inert. The resort is awkwardly laid out and there are clearly one too many expansion pads seperating oversized lands, but there are many many excellent well themed areas that are not dictated by the Ip's they do or in some cases do not contain.

 

[BlindChow]

SImpsons land does have some really nice attention to details. Like the Bort license plates in the gift shop.

Speaking of which, I saw this the other day...

 

[trainplane3]

https://twitter.com/ORLParkPass/status/893570955938861056

Anyone know of any truth to this tweet?

Huh. In my mind, I think I'll take that as a sign of "We don't know what we're doing for the FW overhaul, so we'll open something in the mean time". If that would be true, then that means the construction of overhauled FW is delayed? I would've expected CC to be empty, not gutted, by now.

I'll won't complain, might as well use it if it's still there.

 

[MaximumEd]

Hope that doesn't mean a delay, but there's plenty of other stuff they could work on. Part of me would rather see them swoop in and finish the "new and improved" FW in one whack than stretching it out one pavilion at a time for the next 5+ years. Won't happen, though.