A Spirited Valentine ...

Nubs70

Nubs70

Well-Known Member
ford91exploder said:
Never fear there will be lots of MAGICal Screens instead.


Never said ride was not enjoyable but with 31 or more screens on the river ride the double standard shown by Disney fanbois is quite amusing. As at UNI screens are the spawn of Satan. And yet Pandora's two rides are screen based and it's MAGICal
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But do the amount of screens make you want to puke from the disconnect between screen movement and physical movement?
 
ford91exploder

ford91exploder

Resident Curmudgeon
Nubs70 said:
But do the amount of screens make you want to puke from the disconnect between screen movement and physical movement?
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Depends if the synchronization is correct or not, if Sync is correct no number of screens will cause illness, If sync is off one will do the job quite nicely.

Ideally motion should be controlled by time code in the video. So in the event of a video dropout or glitch motion will track on screen events.
 
yensidtlaw1969

yensidtlaw1969

Well-Known Member
ford91exploder said:
Never fear there will be lots of MAGICal Screens instead.


Never said ride was not enjoyable but with 31 or more screens on the river ride the double standard shown by Disney fanbois is quite amusing. As at UNI screens are the spawn of Satan. And yet Pandora's two rides are screen based and it's MAGICal
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I'd hardly call the River Journey a "Screen BASED" Ride -- it does feature them, but in the context of an environment in which the vast majority is tangible. I agree that the use of screens to depict the Pandora wildlife is disappointing and unfortunate, but credit where credit is due. Seeing at least some of those creatures in animatronic form would have made a considerable difference, but the environment is rich and real.

Compare to something like Gringotts -- some great physical environment work, but too frequently the meat of the scene is a giant white wall with Projection. I can't think of the last time Universal did physical work like NRJ. Even Forbidden Journey does not have as high a ratio of sets to screens. Turn off the projectors and most of the NRJ sets are still there.
 
ford91exploder

ford91exploder

Resident Curmudgeon
yensidtlaw1969 said:
I'd hardly call the River Journey a "Screen BASED" Ride -- it does feature them, but in the context of an environment in which the vast majority is tangible. I agree that the use of screens to depict the Pandora wildlife is disappointing and unfortunate, but credit where credit is due. Seeing at least some of those creatures in animatronic form would have made a considerable difference, but the environment is rich and real.

Compare to something like Gringotts -- some great physical environment work, but too frequently the meat of the scene is a giant white wall with Projection. I can't think of the last time Universal did physical work like NRJ. Even Forbidden Journey does not have as high a ratio of sets to screens. Turn off the projectors and most of the NRJ sets are still there.
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What's seen at Gringotts is the heart of the problem with screens, NO ONE ever thinks to put multiple projectors and or easily replaceable flat panels in place so when the inevitable failure occurs there is a huge hole in the show which cannot be fixed without taking the ride offline. A second projector could be managed by the ride operator with an A/B switch. of course that presupposes that maintenance will replace the failed projector when the park closes.

Now from all accounts WDI has done a great job in having the background degrade gracefully if they go offline and I don't see how NRJ could have been done WITHOUT the use of screens to simulate the deep forests of Pandora. Just like Hogwarts Express could not be done without screens.
 
Mike S

Mike S

Well-Known Member
MerlinTheGoat said:
I criticize both Disney and Universal for that. The Navi ride has video screens (a couple anyways given the short length), and I wish there had been a lot more animatronics (i'm doubtful we'll ever see either Disney or Universal build another attraction with anything close to the quantity of animatronics from Disney's classic 60's-90's E tickets).

However I will diverge from your usual negativity to doll out some praise for Navi River. In a lot of areas it reminds me of what imagineers used to be capable of. I've found it more immersive and entertaining than anything WDW has built since Kilimanjaro Safari and Dinosaur. I enjoy the ride quite a bit. It's not some insane and technically sophisticated new E ticket (like Forbidden Journey), but it has an uncompromising attention to detail and artistry I feel hasn't been seen in a long time from a WDW ride.

And to be accurate, unlike Gringotts/Kong/Ratatouille, 95% of Navi River is actually physical. Navi's screens are relatively small compared with the theater sized projection rooms for Gringotts, Soarin, POTC Shanghai and Flight of Passage. They are layered with multiple "cells" and have 3-dimensional depth too (similar to the queue screens for Gringotts and FJ). There are no empty spaces surrounding the screens, they completely framed them with detailed physical scenery. My wish for more animatronics still stands. But truly, I can't really say there are "too many screens" when there aren't actually very many, there are just too few animatronics. But there is a LOT of physical scenery, the VAST majority of the ride IS comprised of real setpieces. They are very detailed too, with perfectly done lighting and no visible backstage elements (no mechanical crap all over the place like in Little Mermaid that shouldn't be seen, they even covered the ceiling with foliage). The effects that comprise the scenes are technically "simple" in terms of how they work, but the ride was clearly designed by talented artists who knew their trade well.

Again I wish Navi River was longer (10 minutes at least would have been good) and had more animatronics. But honestly I still can't help but really enjoy the ride. It has been a while since a Disney ride made me feel the way Navi River has.
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For me Flight of Passage was the star while the River was just ok. Should've been longer but whatever, we still have our amazing E Ticket so it's nothing like NFL all over again.
 
yensidtlaw1969

yensidtlaw1969

Well-Known Member
ford91exploder said:
What's seen at Gringotts is the heart of the problem with screens, NO ONE ever thinks to put multiple projectors and or easily replaceable flat panels in place so when the inevitable failure occurs there is a huge hole in the show which cannot be fixed without taking the ride offline. A second projector could be managed by the ride operator with an A/B switch. of course that presupposes that maintenance will replace the failed projector when the park closes.

Now from all accounts WDI has done a great job in having the background degrade gracefully if they go offline and I don't see how NRJ could have been done WITHOUT the use of screens to simulate the deep forests of Pandora. Just like Hogwarts Express could not be done without screens.
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Having not actually ridden it yet, I find myself prepared to like the projections that *push the forest back* beyond the walls of the attraction, since they seem to have built sufficient forest for the Projection to be a sweetener rather than the substance. My main and perhaps only apprehension is the lacking amount of physical fauna among the flora. Who would argue the success of the attraction if even half of the projected animals were instead dimensional -- animated figures if not full animatronics?

Another point worth discussing is that despite its insistence that they believe guests really want screens, when they do still use animatronics they feature them in a place of honor within their attractions. The Shaman and the Yeti (RIP) as the culminations of their attractions, Potato Head in the TSMM queue, Waking Olaf welcoming you to Frozenstrom - they wouldn't work this way with animatronics if they thought they were a dud to contemporary audiences.

If the persistent popularity of attractions like Mansion, Pirates, and Small World did not already make the case for the publics continued interest in the animatronic medium, consider this: That they feature new figures so prominently within their attractions betrays the notion of taste being the decision maker. It is very clearly dollars.
 
Jones14

Jones14

Well-Known Member
yensidtlaw1969 said:
I'd hardly call the River Journey a "Screen BASED" Ride -- it does feature them, but in the context of an environment in which the vast majority is tangible. I agree that the use of screens to depict the Pandora wildlife is disappointing and unfortunate, but credit where credit is due. Seeing at least some of those creatures in animatronic form would have made a considerable difference, but the environment is rich and real.

Compare to something like Gringotts -- some great physical environment work, but too frequently the meat of the scene is a giant white wall with Projection. I can't think of the last time Universal did physical work like NRJ. Even Forbidden Journey does not have as high a ratio of sets to screens. Turn off the projectors and most of the NRJ sets are still there.
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To add to that, one of the screens was broken/turned off on my latest ride, and no one in my party but me noticed because there's so much scenery around it that it faded into the background. River Journey has problems, but a lack of set pieces isn't one of them.
 
tirian

tirian

Well-Known Member
yensidtlaw1969 said:
Having not actually ridden it yet, I find myself prepared to like the projections that *push the forest back* beyond the walls of the attraction, since they seem to have built sufficient forest for the Projection to be a sweetener rather than the substance. My main and perhaps only apprehension is the lacking amount of physical fauna among the flora. Who would argue the success of the attraction if even half of the projected animals were instead dimensional -- animated figures if not full animatronics?

Another point worth discussing is that despite its insistence that they believe guests really want screens, when they do still use animatronics they feature them in a place of honor within their attractions. The Shaman and the Yeti (RIP) as the culminations of their attractions, Potato Head in the TSMM queue, Waking Olaf welcoming you to Frozenstrom - they wouldn't work this way with animatronics if they thought they were a dud to contemporary audiences.

If the persistent popularity of attractions like Mansion, Pirates, and Small World did not already make the case for the publics continued interest in the animatronic medium, consider this: That they feature new figures so prominently within their attractions betrays the notion of taste being the decision maker. It is very clearly dollars.
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That's how EPCOT Center used screens in Horizons and Imagination 1.0.

Sigh.
 
Little Green Men

Little Green Men

Well-Known Member
ford91exploder said:
My issue is with the double standard WRT screen usage

Nav'i river ride is a well executed ride that uses lots of screens the count from the insiders is 31 but as you say only 6 can be identified as such which is a testament to the designers who made them 'invisible'

FoP just another simulator ride. Imagine it done Sum of All Thrills style with a kuka arm providing the motion, You could even guide your Banshee...

Yes a low capacity ride at best, i'm tired of 'good enough for tourists' mindset seen at WDW. Today the Safari would never get the green light. Everest would have never been considered

Im sick of the mindset which throws a single AA at an attraction and calls it done. Buzz, Bug, TSMM, now NRJ

Its really obvious that Disney is now creatively bankrupt.
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I thought you hadn't been to WDW in over a year?
 
ford91exploder

ford91exploder

Resident Curmudgeon
GrandCanyonConcourse said:
I thought you hadn't been to WDW in over a year?
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There are these things called 'video recordings' allow you to see things without physically being there. Also there is this thing called the 'internet' where information is posted to be read by others...

No I have not been in posession of admission media for close to two years now, Let's see at the current price of my old premier pass (good for WDW and DL) I've saved almost 2,500 bucks... Soon to be 4,000 saved
 
jakeman

jakeman

Well-Known Member
ford91exploder said:
No I have not been in posession of admission media for close to two years now, Let's see at the current price of my old premier pass (good for WDW and DL) I've saved almost 2,500 bucks... Soon to be 4,000 saved
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What a strange addiction to be so thoroughly disgusted with a product you've not purchased it on two years yet are compelled to post about it perceived shortcomings, both very real and very fabricated.

Are there other products that have drawn your ire to this degree? Dish soaps? Break pads? A particularly offensive brand of lettuce perhaps?
 
HMF

HMF

Well-Known Member
jakeman said:
What a strange addiction to be so thoroughly disgusted with a product you've not purchased it on two years yet are compelled to post about it perceived shortcomings, both very real and very fabricated.

Are there other products that have drawn your ire to this degree? Dish soaps? Break pads? A particularly offensive brand of lettuce perhaps?
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You really don't understand the difference between Disney's former greatness and other everyday "Products''?
 

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