Kman101
Well-Known Member
Since I can't like this twice, I'm quoting it to say I want to like it twice and 100% agree with you.
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A Spirited Valentine ...
- Thread starter WDW1974
- Start date
Since I can't like this twice, I'm quoting it to say I want to like it twice and 100% agree with you.
whylightbulb
Well-Known Member
After riding FOP for myself I'm still baffled by the praise it receives by nearly everyone that experiences it. I feel like the gas they must be using to put riders in a state of trance and believe this is more than just another simulator attraction must not have worked on me for some reason. In all honesty I have been questioning my own sanity and discernment as a result of my impressions of the experience and how it vastly differs from nearly everyone else.
Let me first state that at least I agree with most regarding the queue, especially the Lab segment. You really couldn't ask for more regarding that portion of the attraction. The set up and the build up is executed quite nicely. Where it begins to fail for me is just after the wall comes down and, low and behold, I'm staring at another large-format screen. I look to my left and right, without having to strain in any way, and I see rows of simulator platforms taking me consciously out of the illusion. Yes the video quality is fantastic and yes the 3D is well done without being "in your face" but that's all it is - another 3D simulator with an annoying way to sit.
I felt no connection with the content, the music was pleasant but not memorable like Soaring for instance, the wind and water effects were "been there done that," and the breathing element was more annoying to me than anything else. Sorry but halfway through I found myself thinking, "is this over yet."
To me Star Tours is a much more effective simulator than FOP. One reason is because I'm enclosed in the cabin and the motion/visual connection is more realistic. I don't have a point of reference to take me out of the illusion and every element in the cabin including sound, animation, lighting, and effects feels like they support the experience rather than having been added as an ancillary addition.
For example, in FOP there is a blower, meant to simulate wind, located in the center of the handle bar assembly of the Link Chair. It took me two seconds to feel it and see where it was coming from. On top of that there was no discernible variation on its intensity and direction as you would have if you were actually flying. Granted that would be an expensive and somewhat complex effect to achieve but it is absolutely doable and should have been done considering the budget this attraction received. Blowers located on the sides of the Link Chairs pointed at adjacent chairs as well as blowers located on the floor, all programmed with variable intensity and pulse and synced with visuals would have raised the experience up several notches. How it reads to me in its current form is having a fan in my face.
To me, in order to call this a "game changer" as so many have, it has to be more than another simulator with some technical upgrades. When all is said and done it is just another simulator with an uncomfortable seating arrangement, a six DOF (maybe there are more axis of motion but I didn't notice) base with a more aggressive motion profile than Soaring, a high quality video, and the same old tired effects (the breathing was the only new addition and I found it to be more annoying rather than adding to the immersion).
The danger for me here is we are now sending the message to Disney that all they have to do is give us a large-format screen with a great queue and throw some water and air in our face and we will go crazy for it! Even if you love FOP, how happy will you be to see three or four more attractions just like it instead of full on immersive dark rides? Thank the lord for Alcatraz in Star Wars Land. FOP to me is a huge, lazy cop out. I'm not saying there is no technical innovation and that it was a simple project, I'm saying that all the effort should have instead gone into something we haven't seen before and that this is not worthy of the first true WDW E-ticket in over a decade.
Kman101
Well-Known Member
I'm not going to dislike it for fear of more screen rides. It's a great simulator. But different opinions make the world go 'round. It's not for everyone. Most on here aren't really calling it a "game changer". And why do you need a connection with the material? I haven't seen the movie Avatar and thought the rides and land were extremely well done.
whylightbulb
Well-Known Member
When I refer to a connection with the material I'm referring to the attraction's mythology and environment. I was sold up to the point before siting in the Link Chair. It was after the movie started that I felt like I was just sitting in a theater on an uncomfortable seat with a fan blowing in my face, not on a "Link Chair" connecting me to my avatar and flying through Pandora. I can suspend disbelief for a lot of attractions and enjoy the theatrical immersion but this did not allow me to do so. For the record I did enjoy the River Journey even though it has its flaws such as its length and disappointing ending.
Kman101
Well-Known Member
Understood. You have a fair review though. It won't be for everyone. I do worry to a certain extent about them thinking a screen only is the way to go but for now I'm not overly concerned, at least they gave us River Journey, which sort of just ... ends and it could be longer I agree on those but it is beautiful and immersive. Believe me, I prefer sets and animatronics but for a screen based ride I think FOP is well done.
UpAllNight
Well-Known Member
I think a lot of additions over the next few years will be done so with bridging the perception gap that Disneys rides are antiques and Universal is the place to go for technologically awesome rides. I think this perception has damaged Disneys reputation within some quarters....and it is one that I personally hear a fair bit.
lazyboy97o
Well-Known Member
Sort of related, but I don't think people realize that more and more, the CG and layout/plans are one in the same. This looks like a screenshot from Sketchup (so not really a rendering) and easily could have been used to generate the plan from last week.
lazyboy97o
Well-Known Member
There seems to be this growing conflation in the theme park fan community between personal enjoyment and specialness/technical achievement. That to enjoy something new means it has to have been something amazing and special, and so experiences that are not all that innovate get hyped up as a game change when they are at best slightly iterative or even just typical.
Kman101
Well-Known Member
I'd argue very few on here are calling FOP a "game changer", and I don't really care what people are saying anywhere else. Some have but it isn't. It's a fun and well done simulator but that's what all it is, a simulator. But the experience is well done. Something finally gets mostly universal praise ... just because it isn't for some doesn't mean the ride isn't good.
jakeman
Well-Known Member
Your point is well taken and I'll back off as what I'm trying to accomplish isn't working.
It's unfortunate that such repetition of dishonesty is tolerated around here. It lowers the quality and validity of the conversations as a whole.
However, persistent rebuttal by the same source seems to have the same effect, which baffles me, but apparently it is what it is here.
I'll admit I occasionally get carried away in attempting to regulate such falsities and should be more cognizant of my own affect on the dialogue.
Apologies all around.
doctornick
Well-Known Member
I think your first sentance is absolutely correct, but I would take the exact opposite conclusion from that premise. I think far far too many people argue that something has to be a "technical achievement" or "ground breaking" in order to be a high quality ride and very enjoyable. We're constantly seeing people dismiss rides unless they are using some unique or innovated system.
Personally, I don't care. Given me decades old tech as long as the execution is top notch. A good story, good music, proper immersion -- that's more important than trying to be the "latest and greatest". That doesn't mean new stuff shouldn't be done, but it isn't the end all be all.
I haven't ridden FoP yet, but from everything I've seen, it doesn't sound like it does anything that's particularly groundbreaking. What it does do apparently is very high quality integration of all of the components to be more immersive than your typical simulator/flying theater. People are impressed because of how convincing it is and for that I think WDI should be complemented for how well they achieved their goal. That doesn't make it a "game changer" just a high quality ride, which is really all that should be important.
flyerjab
Well-Known Member
The term game changer is interesting to me as it completely depends upon any given individual's definition. Some mean game changer from a technical point of view or what is going on behind what we the riders are experiencing. Others might say game changer in terms of the fact that 95% of the people coming my off of the ride are in awe of what they experienced regardless of the technical prowess of the ride. Others might say game changer by the simple fact that the ride will draw enough people to DAK that it is now a full day park, or that next year's unofficial TEA numbers ranks DAK on par with Epcot (just an example, I have no evidence that will happen).
I have no issues with @whylightbulb's opinion of FoP. He didn't care for it as the masses in general seem to. And that does not make him wrong. I think that his lens and mine for viewing this ride are different, but that is also fine as we are individuals with our own points of view. However, I will say that I completely disagree with most of what he said regarding FoP. It was a game-changing experience for me. We are going back in July and I am counting the days until I ride this again. I can only say that the entire ride experience for me was phenomenal. I love Star Tours and Soarin', but I have never been swept up in those rides like I was for FoP. I have never felt that type of flying sensation before, and I typically only yell on roller coasters. There were actually moments when I had to remind myself that I was on a simulator attraction and not really flying, it was that good to me. I think it was game-changing for me in that I never thought a simulator ride could be that exhilarating of an experience. It is also a game changer for me in that it will permanently impact how we tour the parks. DAK will now be a full day at least, if not more now for our family. I am not in construction nor do I pretend to understand the complexities of some of these rides. But my definition of a game-changer does not include technically advanced. But that is just me.
I have no issues with @whylightbulb's opinion of FoP. He didn't care for it as the masses in general seem to. And that does not make him wrong. I think that his lens and mine for viewing this ride are different, but that is also fine as we are individuals with our own points of view. However, I will say that I completely disagree with most of what he said regarding FoP. It was a game-changing experience for me. We are going back in July and I am counting the days until I ride this again. I can only say that the entire ride experience for me was phenomenal. I love Star Tours and Soarin', but I have never been swept up in those rides like I was for FoP. I have never felt that type of flying sensation before, and I typically only yell on roller coasters. There were actually moments when I had to remind myself that I was on a simulator attraction and not really flying, it was that good to me. I think it was game-changing for me in that I never thought a simulator ride could be that exhilarating of an experience. It is also a game changer for me in that it will permanently impact how we tour the parks. DAK will now be a full day at least, if not more now for our family. I am not in construction nor do I pretend to understand the complexities of some of these rides. But my definition of a game-changer does not include technically advanced. But that is just me.
Mike S
Well-Known Member
Bowser Airship ride that goes through Mario Kart? YES PLEASE!!!
DK looks wonderful. I still hope Zelda is saved for its own land. Not a fan of the theater show from this plan.
Can't wait.
flyerjab
Well-Known Member
Well said doc!
Something else I took from this ride. There is an elegance or beauty to it that really stands out. That moment halfway through where your banshee perches inside the cave when the bioluminescence activates along with the scent is a poignant moment. And I thought the music was also beautiful and well down from that moment through to the end of the ride.
Kman101
Well-Known Member
But to be fair, he DOES post a lot of the same rhetoric that's often proven as false. I'm not bashing ford, I do like and agree with him sometimes (he does have a few solid points that sometimes get lost in his rhetoric but I think a lot of it is a bit overdone, and overexaggerated to make his point, JMO) but we get it. We know how he feels. He's certainly welcome to express that, like we all are ...
And I think people need to understand what bashing is. What you've done isn't bashing of him, IMHO. And I think ford can speak for himself, if he had problems he'd speak up, doesn't need anyone to do it for him.
But I guess we should move on from it.
ford91exploder
Resident Curmudgeon
Technologically awesome means nothing if the immersion and storytelling are not there.
Its why Peter Pan is still popular even though its basically a chairlift over some scale models. It immerses you and tells a story with a well defined beginning and end
whylightbulb
Well-Known Member
You are not alone in your assessment of this ride. The group I rode with stated they would be willing to wait in a three or four hour line to experience it again. I am more than dumbfounded at the overall response but that of course doesn't make anyone wrong regarding their opinion. That being said, I as a designer of visitor attractions always look for specific reasons for audience reactions to any given ride or show. This one astounds me because I cannot pinpoint what makes this special in any way. With the exception of the beautiful video and media quality this was not much different than BTF/Simpsons in 3D. For me though there was nothing interesting in terms of the content either so that was the final nail in the coffin.
I am one that believes strongly that technology alone does not account for the success of an attraction but is merely a tool to deliver the experience. This is one of the reasons I'm not a fan of Test Track, Mission Space, and most of the other recent additions to WDW in the past twenty years. FOP reads to me like merely a technology upgrade from Soaring with little substance. There was no emotional connection to any character or to the environment itself. As nice as the queue is it left me emotionally cold and I didn't care what happened on the screen during the ride. More importantly, I didn't even feel like I was flying but more that I was hunched forward on an uncomfortable chair looking at a screen. I compare that to how I can let myself go and suspend disbelief when riding Star Tours where the 3D adds to the realism, the motion is effective, the music is exhilarating (it's not really fair comparing John Williams' Star Wars music I know but it is a factor), and there are other show elements incorporated like animatronics. What does this ride add to the lineup of WDW attractions that hasn't been done before?
The answer to that question can be subjective in many ways and that is what is frustrating me as a designer for the first time in my career. Obviously FOP is offering a lot of people something new that I just didn't see on my first ride. I intend to ride it again and give it another chance.
Kman101
Well-Known Member
That was a great moment. I loved stopping and just taking it in. Very well executed overall.