A Spirited Valentine ...

ford91exploder

ford91exploder

Resident Curmudgeon
The Empress Lilly said:
Droids and stormtroopers make for cheap and easy AAs.

Not that I expect BE to be a cheap attraction, just that this could've influenced going into an AA-heavy direction.
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Never fear there will be lots of MAGICal Screens instead.
MerlinTheGoat said:
I criticize both Disney and Universal for that. The Navi ride has video screens (a couple anyways given the short length), and I wish there had been a lot more animatronics (i'm doubtful we'll ever see either Disney or Universal build another attraction with anything close to the quantity of animatronics from Disney's classic 60's-90's E tickets).

However I will diverge from your usual negativity to doll out some praise for Navi River. In a lot of areas it reminds me of what imagineers used to be capable of. I've found it more immersive and entertaining than anything WDW has built since Kilimanjaro Safari and Dinosaur. I enjoy the ride quite a bit. It's not some insane and technically sophisticated new E ticket (like Forbidden Journey), but it has an uncompromising attention to detail and artistry I feel hasn't been seen in a long time from a WDW ride.

And to be accurate, unlike Gringotts/Kong/Ratatouille, 95% of Navi River is actually physical. Navi's screens are relatively small compared with the theater sized projection rooms for Gringotts, Soarin, POTC Shanghai and Flight of Passage. They are layered with multiple "cells" and have 3-dimensional depth too (similar to the queue screens for Gringotts and FJ). There are no empty spaces surrounding the screens, they completely framed them with detailed physical scenery. My wish for more animatronics still stands. But truly, I can't really say there are "too many screens" when there aren't actually very many, there are just too few animatronics. But there is a LOT of physical scenery, the VAST majority of the ride IS comprised of real setpieces. They are very detailed too, with perfectly done lighting and no visible backstage elements (no mechanical crap all over the place like in Little Mermaid that shouldn't be seen, they even covered the ceiling with foliage). The effects that comprise the scenes are technically "simple" in terms of how they work, but the ride was clearly designed by talented artists who knew their trade well.

Again I wish Navi River was longer (10 minutes at least would have been good) and had more animatronics. But honestly I still can't help but really enjoy the ride. It has been a while since a Disney ride made me feel the way Navi River has.
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Never said ride was not enjoyable but with 31 or more screens on the river ride the double standard shown by Disney fanbois is quite amusing. As at UNI screens are the spawn of Satan. And yet Pandora's two rides are screen based and it's MAGICal
 
MerlinTheGoat

MerlinTheGoat

Well-Known Member
If i'm not mistaken, the last Disney ride to have a sizable population of quality AA's was Sinbad at Tokyo Disneysea built in 2001 (and it has been far longer for WDW, Splash Mountain i'd say). Sizable meaning reaching well into the double digits, and quality meaning ones that are more complex than the simplistic moving figures seen in the classic Fantasyland dark rides (something closer to the figures in POTC, Spaceship Earth, World of Motion etc).

Is there a good reason to believe the rumors about the Star Wars ride having tons of AA's? It's hard to imagine the current Disney leadership doing it. I don't doubt there being a small handful, but the alleged triple digit figure? I find that extremely sketchy, unless someone respectable like '74, Martin, articos, tirian etc etc has confirmed this...
 
Kman101

Kman101

Well-Known Member
Casper Gutman said:
Screens are tools, and they can be deployed effectively, particularly in concert with AAs. The trouble is, there aren't a lot of great examples of the two media being mixed well. Kong? River Journey? Both are a series of screens and then a fancy robot. SWL Escape ride might integrate them well, and I thought this was the direction the Mickey ride was headed before the recent dispiriting news.

So, what's the best existing example of the integration of screens and AAs? I'm not a huge fan of Forbidden Journey, but is that it? Was Timekeeper the pinnacle? Is Hong Kong's PoC the only truly great example of the mixture?

I also think that, if Kong is a screen ride, River Journey is a screen ride. RJ hides the edges a bit better, but it's a difference of degree, not of kind.
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I don't consider Kong or River Journey a "screen ride" but if you do and other's do, I'm not going to argue against it, but I don't think they are. They use screens but you aren't stuck in front of a screen. But I guess they could be considered "screen rides". I think RJ does a good job using the screens to enhance the ride. IMO of course.
 
MerlinTheGoat

MerlinTheGoat

Well-Known Member
ford91exploder said:
Never said ride was not enjoyable but with 31 or more screens on the river ride the double standard shown by Disney fanbois is quite amusing. As at UNI screens are the spawn of Satan. And yet Pandora's two rides are screen based and it's MAGICal
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31? Where'd you get that figure? The quantity is in the single digits, only about 5 by my count, and not very large screens either. If you want to stretch it to 6, there is one area with some very small frog shadow silhouettes behind physical leaves over the boats (the leaves also move with the silhouettes).

Around 95% of the ride is comprised of very detailed and quality physical sets. The ride unquestionably needed more animatronics (and more length, my primary complaint), but it is NOT wall-to-wall video screens like Toy Story Mania. Navi River has a far higher ratio of physical sets to screens than even Gringotts or Kong. I'm not defending screens, even if they are well executed in Navi River (as far as screens go, still not my thing and i'm an AA person all the way). But they are honestly a rather insignificant chunk of the ride.

Flight of Passage didn't really impress me. I don't technically dislike simulators, but I don't consider them valid substitutes for an actual ride (would prefer the third attraction they cut). It's a very good and enjoyable simulator, and I might ride if I can snag a fastpass. But not the amazing earth shattering experience some were claiming. I wasn't hyped and expected a good simulator, that expectation was met pretty much exactly. Navi River was far more special to me IMO. It's no Splash Mountain or Spaceship Earth and absolutely has flaws, but within its own scope it did remind me of that old classic Disney "magic" (quality) I find so rare in newer attractions.
 
Casper Gutman

Casper Gutman

Well-Known Member
Kman101 said:
I don't consider Kong or River Journey a "screen ride" but if you do and other's do, I'm not going to argue against it, but I don't think they are. They use screens but you aren't stuck in front of a screen. But I guess they could be considered "screen rides". I think RJ does a good job using the screens to enhance the ride. IMO of course.
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Nah, I dislike the designation "screen ride" unless it's a simulator - I'd just like to see a consistent application of the term.

Most of all, I'd like to see screens well integrated with other elements, ala MM.
 
Bocabear

Bocabear

Well-Known Member
My chief complaint with the River Journey is not the screens at all. I agree they were beautifully integrated, there is a ton of eye candy on the ride...and that's all a plus. My complaint is in the length of the ride and the apparent complete lack of storytelling ...It's a journey but to where? you are already in Pandora... it seems ponderous... merely a ride though a pretty set, when it should have some sort of a " journey" feel to it...We have already established we are in Pandora...... And it seems a huge missed opportunity to not have included the Spirit tree thing as a major set piece... Like taking a journey from the base camp down river to the Spirit tree...
I will say again, it is pretty, but I think we all came off thinking.. "pretty"...was about it. More like Small World and less like Pirates....and I think it needed to be more like Pirates... More epic... a real journey...
 
ford91exploder

ford91exploder

Resident Curmudgeon
MerlinTheGoat said:
31? Where'd you get that figure? The quantity is in the single digits, only about 5 by my count, and not very large screens either. If you want to stretch it to 6, there is one area with some very small frog shadow silhouettes behind physical leaves over the boats (the leaves also move with the silhouettes).

Around 95% of the ride is comprised of very detailed and quality physical sets. The ride unquestionably needed more animatronics (and more length, my primary complaint), but it is NOT wall-to-wall video screens like Toy Story Mania. Navi River has a far higher ratio of physical sets to screens than even Gringotts or Kong. I'm not defending screens, even if they are well executed in Navi River (as far as screens go, still not my thing and i'm an AA person all the way). But they are honestly a rather insignificant chunk of the ride.

Flight of Passage didn't really impress me. I don't technically dislike simulators, but I don't consider them valid substitutes for an actual ride (would prefer the third attraction they cut). It's a very good and enjoyable simulator, and I might ride if I can snag a fastpass. But not the amazing earth shattering experience some were claiming. I wasn't hyped and expected a good simulator, that expectation was met pretty much exactly. Navi River was far more special to me IMO. It's no Splash Mountain or Spaceship Earth and absolutely has flaws, but within its own scope it did remind me of that old classic Disney "magic" (quality) I find so rare in newer attractions.
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My issue is with the double standard WRT screen usage

Nav'i river ride is a well executed ride that uses lots of screens the count from the insiders is 31 but as you say only 6 can be identified as such which is a testament to the designers who made them 'invisible'

FoP just another simulator ride. Imagine it done Sum of All Thrills style with a kuka arm providing the motion, You could even guide your Banshee...

Yes a low capacity ride at best, i'm tired of 'good enough for tourists' mindset seen at WDW. Today the Safari would never get the green light. Everest would have never been considered

Im sick of the mindset which throws a single AA at an attraction and calls it done. Buzz, Bug, TSMM, now NRJ

Its really obvious that Disney is now creatively bankrupt.
 
ford91exploder

ford91exploder

Resident Curmudgeon
Bocabear said:
My chief complaint with the River Journey is not the screens at all. I agree they were beautifully integrated, there is a ton of eye candy on the ride...and that's all a plus. My complaint is in the length of the ride and the apparent complete lack of storytelling ...It's a journey but to where? you are already in Pandora... it seems ponderous... merely a ride though a pretty set, when it should have some sort of a " journey" feel to it...We have already established we are in Pandora...... And it seems a huge missed opportunity to not have included the Spirit tree thing as a major set piece... Like taking a journey from the base camp down river to the Spirit tree...
I will say again, it is pretty, but I think we all came off thinking.. "pretty"...was about it. More like Small World and less like Pirates....and I think it needed to be more like Pirates... More epic... a real journey...
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Its as ive said frequently Disney is now creatively bankrupt because its CEO is completely berift of imagination or creativity and has actively chased away those who are creative or sympathetic to the creative mind.

He's pre-ghost Scrooge concerned only with the accumulation of personal wealth.

Nothing he's done benefits disney long term. He's the guy who borrows your car and runs it out of oil and gas. And leaves you with the repair bill.
 
brb1006

brb1006

Well-Known Member
MerlinTheGoat said:
If i'm not mistaken, the last Disney ride to have a sizable population of quality AA's was Sinbad at Tokyo Disneysea built in 2001 (and it has been far longer for WDW, Splash Mountain i'd say). Sizable meaning reaching well into the double digits, and quality meaning ones that are more complex than the simplistic moving figures seen in the classic Fantasyland dark rides (something closer to the figures in POTC, Spaceship Earth, World of Motion etc).

Is there a good reason to believe the rumors about the Star Wars ride having tons of AA's? It's hard to imagine the current Disney leadership doing it. I don't doubt there being a small handful, but the alleged triple digit figure? I find that extremely sketchy, unless someone respectable like '74, Martin, articos, tirian etc etc has confirmed this...
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And boy did it look amazing

 

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