A Spirited Perfect Ten

[Goofyernmost]

People may say Disney has gone to far but until they stop going to the resorts they will continue to raise prices. I haven't been to the parks since they started the up charges for a good seat to watch the parades and cupcakes but it sounds like people will pay the extra money on top admission prices to get in the park. People will continue to go.

Just a note on that. I don't understand all the angst about the price increases. In 1970 I bought a brand new car for $3200.00. Think you can get one for that now? Prices go up and life goes on. Especially in a place like WDW or any of the other parks which are not even close to being a necessity. If we don't have enough money to go, we just don't go. Everyone lives on. When enough people stop going then you will see the prices drop, but, don't expect that to happen real soon.

 

[hopemax]

Just a note on that. I don't understand all the angst about the price increases. In 1970 I bought a brand new car for $3200.00. Think you can get one for that now? Prices go up and life goes on. Especially in a place like WDW or any of the other parks which are not even close to being a necessity. If we don't have enough money to go, we just don't go. Everyone lives on. When enough people stop going then you will see the prices drop, but, don't expect that to happen real soon.

Your $3200 1970 dollars are CPI adjusted to now $19,655 (and yes, you can buy a new car for that). Based on tonight's rate of $521 for a MK view room at the Contemporary Tower you could stay 37 nights. (19655/521)

Contemporary wasn't open in 1970, but using 1971 rates, the most expensive room cost $44, so you would have been able to stay 72 nights. (3200/44)

Yes, prices go up, inflation happens. But your 1970 self could have stayed TWICE as long at the Contemporary for the equivalent value of money in your wallet. You don't see the difference?

 

[1023]

News I cared about. Or noticed anyway.

Disney and Hasbro launch Playmation Marvels Avengers.

The Playmation Marvel’s Avengers Starter Pack has a suggested retail price of $119.99 and is available in the United States and Canada at mass and specialty retailers, such as Amazon.com, Best Buy, Game Stop, Target, Toys “R” Us, and Walmart, as well as select Disney Store locations and DisneyStore.com. Additional Playmation Marvel’s Avengers connected toys compatible with the Starter Pack, such as Smart Figures and the Prowler Bot are also sold separately.

Families that are coming to the Disney Store to pick up Playmation Marvel’s Avengers (either from pre-orders or to purchase that day), will be given the opportunity to participate in a personalized pick-up ceremony taking place in select Disney Stores across the United States and Canada beginning now through the holidays. When guests purchase Playmation Marvel’s Avengers, JARVIS will make an announcement in-store thanking guests for choosing to help the Avengers in their fight against Ultron.

As always, Link below:

http://www.businesswire.com/news/ho...ation-Heralds-Play-Kids-Families#.VhNCoKI4KTo

*1023*

 

[hopemax]

Or since this latest discussion is concerning admission, for a little more fun with numbers, in 1971 your $3200 would have bought 365 days of 11-adventure booklets ($5.75) and still be able to buy an additional 1223 E-tickets - 3 or 4 per day (because you always had to buy more), so you'd have 7 or 8 E-tickets per day.

While today the $19,665 would buy you 187 days entry to the MK. (yes, I am comparing one day prices, because that was your only option in 1971)

 

[gonzoWDW]

It's a good idea. What makes it difficult is rides such as Space Mountain, which have variable capacity (they can add or subtract ride vehicles at will, up to a point). So for those rides, you don't know how many minutes = how many people, except on the very busiest days when the ride is running at full capacity.

There is some evidence that Disney uses projected attendance levels to tell the ride staff how many vehicles to run on these rides each morning. That's why it can take slightly less time to complete a touring plan at a crowd level '6' (on our scale) versus a '5'.

Ah, good point. I didn't think they would remove ride vehicles except for maintenance, but I guess an excess of vehicles can probably cause load/unload delays. Now that you mention it, I would be very surprised if Disney did not use attendance level projections to optimize the wait and load/unload times, and to set staffing and ride vehicle availability plans.

Guess the only way to get close to figuring out the actual crowd levels would be get into the IE department and see the files in their computers.

 

[lentesta]

The other factor that may be driving things hire? Staffing levels. If the rides are properly staffed, then you're going to get long lines and blow this up… That would be another reasonable explanation as to why things are abnormally high over the summer and into the fall.

Put on your tin-foil hats, kids. This is where I go all "conspiracy theory" on y'all.

<start of tin foil section>

What if the September crowds were engineered by Disney to justify the upcoming tiered pricing scheme? Like "We have to raise prices to keep crowds low - you saw September!"

It wouldn't take much to do this. You tell the security folks at bag check "Hey, be extra thorough today, and don't worry about the backup." Then the first thing people see when they get off the ferry/monorail is a huge line, and they think it's more crowded than it should be.

You tell ride staffers to be extra careful in checking seat belts, regardless of how it affects ride dispatch time, or you take a few extra vehicles offline for maintenance, and bam, longer waits at the attractions.

It's completely doable, and it could be done in a couple-paragraph email. Who's going to argue against extra security? Who's going to argue against extra ride safety?

<end of tin foil section>

 

[lazyboy97o]

Put on your tin-foil hats, kids. This is where I go all "conspiracy theory" on y'all.

<start of tin foil section>

What if the September crowds were engineered by Disney to justify the upcoming tiered pricing scheme? Like "We have to raise prices to keep crowds low - you saw September!"

It wouldn't take much to do this. You tell the security folks at bag check "Hey, be extra thorough today, and don't worry about the backup." Then the first thing people see when they get off the ferry/monorail is a huge line, and they think it's more crowded than it should be.

You tell ride staffers to be extra careful in checking seat belts, regardless of how it affects ride dispatch time, or you take a few extra vehicles offline for maintenance, and bam, longer waits at the attractions.

It's completely doable, and it could be done in a couple-paragraph email. Who's going to argue against extra security? Who's going to argue against extra ride safety?

<end of tin foil section>

I also noticed you mentioned earlier that the sell out threshold for Mickey's Not So a scary Halloween Party was dropped from 25,000 to 20,000. Not something you typically do when bursting at the seams. That too would have been impacted by such a tin foil thought and would also have a direct impact on the party experience. It also helps the crowded image by creating more sell outs that are reached sooner.

 

[automation85]

I'd say you are on to something, Len, except that would only explain september. As we have recently seen, the overall crowd levels are increasing across the board.

The trade-off with attractions is always throughput versus thrill, and the traditional high throughput/capacity attractions just aren't being built like they used to. Compound that with the fact that disney hasn't really added attraction capacity to the first three parks since 1994 and DAK since everest, and we see how this trend is their own doing.

Inflating wait times on a level 1 day to become a 4, may make some sense, but to make every day feel like a 9, you are just asking for issues. As much as we question the mental prowess of TDO, I would hope they would know better than to add that much stress to a guest's vacation. Then again...

 

[Skyway]

When enough people stop going then you will see the prices drop, but, don't expect that to happen real soon.

We can debate until we're blue in the face about whether Disney is pricing out the middle class, Americans are using credit to buy things they can't afford, etc.

But I don't think any of us can dispute that WDW had never been busier. The past decade of price hikes have done NOTHING to deter visitors.

Now think about it. What if today Disney were to say "Those folks who posted on WDWMagic back in 2008 were absolutely right! We should have never increased a 1-Day ticket past $75 ! That was crazy of us! Why didn't we listen to them? So starting today, we are going to roll back prices to 2008 prices. A 1-Day ticket is once again $75."

What would WDW crowds looks like if they cut prices by 25% or more today? It would be sheer madness.

If Disney can still pack their parks AND make a boatload of money, why would they stop?

 

[scout68]

We can debate until we're blue in the face about whether Disney is pricing out the middle class, Americans are using credit to buy things they can't afford, etc...


...If Disney can still pack their parks AND make a boatload of money, why would they stop?

Perhaps they should spend some of the money to maintain said boats or dare I say purchase a few new ones.

 

[flynnibus]

Put on your tin-foil hats, kids. This is where I go all "conspiracy theory" on y'all.

<start of tin foil section>

What if the September crowds were engineered by Disney to justify the upcoming tiered pricing scheme? Like "We have to raise prices to keep crowds low - you saw September!"

It wouldn't take much to do this. You tell the security folks at bag check "Hey, be extra thorough today, and don't worry about the backup." Then the first thing people see when they get off the ferry/monorail is a huge line, and they think it's more crowded than it should be.

You tell ride staffers to be extra careful in checking seat belts, regardless of how it affects ride dispatch time, or you take a few extra vehicles offline for maintenance, and bam, longer waits at the attractions.

It's completely doable, and it could be done in a couple-paragraph email. Who's going to argue against extra security? Who's going to argue against extra ride safety?

<end of tin foil section>

I dunno about manufactured crowds... but I certainly can see 'not caring about crowds' when the business would value operating with the least cost possible that allows things to get crowded, but not so crowded things cause a ruckus. Which is why I've poo'd on Dave using your wait times as indicators of attendance. All it takes is Disney slow-boating attractions through reduced staffing, lower intensity, or resistance to running more ride vehicles to make make attractions have longer lines.

Disney isn't incentivized to give you the lowest possible wait time. Just 'low enough' to keep the magic total ride count where it needs to be.

 

[SYRIK2000]

Put on your tin-foil hats, kids. This is where I go all "conspiracy theory" on y'all.

<start of tin foil section>

What if the September crowds were engineered by Disney to justify the upcoming tiered pricing scheme? Like "We have to raise prices to keep crowds low - you saw September!"

It wouldn't take much to do this. You tell the security folks at bag check "Hey, be extra thorough today, and don't worry about the backup." Then the first thing people see when they get off the ferry/monorail is a huge line, and they think it's more crowded than it should be.

You tell ride staffers to be extra careful in checking seat belts, regardless of how it affects ride dispatch time, or you take a few extra vehicles offline for maintenance, and bam, longer waits at the attractions.

It's completely doable, and it could be done in a couple-paragraph email. Who's going to argue against extra security? Who's going to argue against extra ride safety?

<end of tin foil section>

Len Testa in a tin foil hat? Isn't this one of the signs of the Apocalypse?

We should all probably be listening.

 

[PhotoDave219]

Put on your tin-foil hats, kids. This is where I go all "conspiracy theory" on y'all.

<start of tin foil section>

What if the September crowds were engineered by Disney to justify the upcoming tiered pricing scheme? Like "We have to raise prices to keep crowds low - you saw September!"

It wouldn't take much to do this. You tell the security folks at bag check "Hey, be extra thorough today, and don't worry about the backup." Then the first thing people see when they get off the ferry/monorail is a huge line, and they think it's more crowded than it should be.

You tell ride staffers to be extra careful in checking seat belts, regardless of how it affects ride dispatch time, or you take a few extra vehicles offline for maintenance, and bam, longer waits at the attractions.

It's completely doable, and it could be done in a couple-paragraph email. Who's going to argue against extra security? Who's going to argue against extra ride safety?

<end of tin foil section>

Heh. I'll message you later.....

 

[ford91exploder]

I also noticed you mentioned earlier that the sell out threshold for Mickey's Not So a scary Halloween Party was dropped from 25,000 to 20,000. Not something you typically do when bursting at the seams. That too would have been impacted by such a tin foil thought and would also have a direct impact on the party experience. It also helps the crowded image by creating more sell outs that are reached sooner.

The key is advanced ticket sales, Yes they cannot record the money as revenue until the ticket is redeemed but they CAN collect the float interest on the prepayment 69.95 x 20,000 is 1.399 Million dollars the interest per day on that sum is not inconsiderable even if only 75% are pre-sold that's a good chunk of interest income, Same reason DDP is now 'pay in full at reservation booking' instead of an add on which you could add up to 24 hours before your arrival at WDW.

Sadly just more 'financial engineering' instead of concentrating on the guest experience.

 

[ford91exploder]

Your $3200 1970 dollars are CPI adjusted to now $19,655 (and yes, you can buy a new car for that). Based on tonight's rate of $521 for a MK view room at the Contemporary Tower you could stay 37 nights. (19655/521)

Contemporary wasn't open in 1970, but using 1971 rates, the most expensive room cost $44, so you would have been able to stay 72 nights. (3200/44)

Yes, prices go up, inflation happens. But your 1970 self could have stayed TWICE as long at the Contemporary for the equivalent value of money in your wallet. You don't see the difference?

Most people can't do math so they just look at the absolute numbers not at the equivalent purchasing power with inflation factored in.

 

[Goofyernmost]

Your $3200 1970 dollars are CPI adjusted to now $19,655 (and yes, you can buy a new car for that). Based on tonight's rate of $521 for a MK view room at the Contemporary Tower you could stay 37 nights. (19655/521)

Contemporary wasn't open in 1970, but using 1971 rates, the most expensive room cost $44, so you would have been able to stay 72 nights. (3200/44)

Yes, prices go up, inflation happens. But your 1970 self could have stayed TWICE as long at the Contemporary for the equivalent value of money in your wallet. You don't see the difference?

Interesting bunch of numbers, but, you missed the point. Minimum wage was around $1.00 per hour and an average paying job got you $175 to $300.00 per week. You might have been able to purchase a $44.00 per night room, but, unless you lived on the street and had no other expenses, you couldn't afford to stay any longer then you can now.

Also my point was, that prices rise. Even if I could buy a new car now for $19K it wasn't anymore affordable buying it for $3200. back then. (my car payment was less then $100. per month and I had all I could do to make the payment, pay the rent, buy groceries, clothing, utilities and other necessities.) Prices go up and they go up relatively uniformly. A place like Disney is anything but a necessity of life. My $3200. car was a Buick, the equivalent today is around $40K (apples to apples). People still buy Buicks but a basic $19K auto will still get you where you are going. WDW is a luxury item, just like expensive cars are a luxury item, that is why they are more expensive then basic transportation. To even compare cost of living to that is an exercise in erroneous thinking. No one requires a WDW vacation to survive, it is a pure luxury. Not everyone can afford it. Life is like that. There is no such thing as uniformly too expensive. You either can afford to partake or you cannot. There is nothing owed to anyone and that certainly is true of a Theme Park.

 

[truecoat]

People may say Disney has gone to far but until they stop going to the resorts they will continue to raise prices. I haven't been to the parks since they started the up charges for a good seat to watch the parades and cupcakes but it sounds like people will pay the extra money on top admission prices to get in the park. People will continue to go.

True but they have set them selves up for a big fall when a recession hits. It will be easier not to go to WDW when the price is so high.

 

[DisneyOutsider]

True but they have set them selves up for a big fall when a recession hits. It will be easier not to go to WDW when the price is so high.

On the other hand, if you price the product so that it becomes a high end luxury experience frequented by the rich, demand becomes rather inelastic.

 

[TeriofTerror]

Put on your tin-foil hats, kids. This is where I go all "conspiracy theory" on y'all.

<start of tin foil section>

What if the September crowds were engineered by Disney to justify the upcoming tiered pricing scheme? Like "We have to raise prices to keep crowds low - you saw September!"

It wouldn't take much to do this. You tell the security folks at bag check "Hey, be extra thorough today, and don't worry about the backup." Then the first thing people see when they get off the ferry/monorail is a huge line, and they think it's more crowded than it should be.

You tell ride staffers to be extra careful in checking seat belts, regardless of how it affects ride dispatch time, or you take a few extra vehicles offline for maintenance, and bam, longer waits at the attractions.

It's completely doable, and it could be done in a couple-paragraph email. Who's going to argue against extra security? Who's going to argue against extra ride safety?

<end of tin foil section>

Hmm... I can tell you that even though I had no bags, there were times that all guests were funneled through the bag check lines ( I was rather annoyed by this).
If nothing else, the unexpected crowds certainly highlighted the value of a good touring plan, even Sept. 5-11. I was at the front of every rope drop crowd and rode everything I wanted with little to no wait. My husband moseyed in around 11:00-12:00 and averaged around two attractions per day. I'm not kidding.
P.S. I don't think your tinfoil hat is big enough; it should encompass transportation, as well. The buses were consistently running behind (at least this was my experience at the BW) -- often 45+ minutes at opening -- and thus guests who had been waiting were told they couldn't board, and would have to wait for another bus. The closure of the Express Monorail added another level of hassle, as well.

 

[hopemax]

Interesting bunch of numbers, but, you missed the point. Minimum wage was around $1.00 per hour and an average paying job got you $175 to $300.00 per week. You might have been able to purchase a $44.00 per night room, but, unless you lived on the street and had no other expenses, you couldn't afford to stay any longer then you can now.

No, it was $1.60 in 1970. You are off by 60%. So a minimum wage employee would have worked 27.5 hours to afford one night in the most expensive room category on property. Minimum wage today is $7.25 so to afford a night in that $521 room, that would take 71.8 hours of minimum wage work. 2.6 times as much.

2nd quarter 2015, median weekly earnings in the US were $801. So they could buy 1.5 nights in the Contemporary room.

I found the stats for 1970, and it wasn't as high as you mentioned. 1970 total, median full time was $138/week although for white males it was $168. So for total, full time that would be 3.1 nights, and for a white male 3.8. Again, at least twice as long for one week's worth of work.