A Spirited Perfect Ten

[ChrisFL]

I went to the Epcot Gluttony and Wine Festival on Sunday....rain on and off all day made it interesting.

Ducked into France during one storm to catch the movie...and though I watch it at least once a year...this time it REALLY hit me how old it is. I guess since we can't say anymore about how Norway's film was also severely outdated, Impressions de France stands alone as a relic of a far gone era if I was to guess. I'd love to candidly ask all of the France CM's, I'm sure 90% of whom weren't even born when the movie was filmed how bad it seems to them.

They need to keep the music and the style of narration and shoot some modern scenes...keep the castles, landscapes, etc. footage.

 

[DisneyOutsider]

But NOW you have to make the experience commensurate with the price, I can see catering to the wealthy if the price AND service and amenity levels were both on the upswing but whats happening at WDW is service and amenities are being relentlessly cut while prices are increasing at double digit rates.

It seems Disney is shooting for the 'One and Done' market assuming since it's DISNEY they will pay any price irrespective of the services provided.

Yeah, I'd like to get more for what I pay for the on-site resorts, but regardless of whether the level of service ever catches up to the price or not, WDW is definitely a luxury product. We know they can still rake it in without filling up their resorts. I think that they've already proven that demand for their parks is pretty close to un-shakeable, and I think that they are fully prepared to price out another level of consumers, for better or for worse.

 

[ford91exploder]

Yeah, I'd like to get more for what I pay for the on-site resorts, but regardless of whether the level of service ever catches up to the price or not, WDW is definitely a luxury product. We know they can still rake it in without filling up their resorts. I think that they've already proven that demand for their parks is pretty close to un-shakeable, and I think that they are fully prepared to price out another level of consumers, for better or for worse.

The key is the 'luxury' market expects a certain level of service, WDW once delivered that level of service but no longer, Look at the HUGE discounts they offer in the UK and Latin America all to get the 'one and done' traveller there which contributes to the crowding this is not a sustainable business model in my opinion.

 

[ford91exploder]

On the other hand, if you price the product so that it becomes a high end luxury experience frequented by the rich, demand becomes rather inelastic.

Trouble is it's a Motel 6 experience priced at Waldorf Astoria levels, Yes it's a luxury to travel to WDW but the WDW experience is no longer a luxury experience and/or the place to be seen if you were anyone that was not always the case at one time WDW was indeed one of the places on the east coast to 'be seen'.

 

[raymusiccity]

On the other hand, if you price the product so that it becomes a high end luxury experience frequented by the rich, demand becomes rather inelastic.

Agreed. Plus, there's always the 'economic discrimination' that should be factored in as well.
People always get around to the price point where your clientele start trashing the park, ala the non-lamented 'Grad Nights' ! You can't have admission resembling 'Six Flags' on a Saturday night.

 

[michmousefan]

Good article/rant by Jason Cochran on the unstoppable price increases from the Mouse:
http://www.frommers.com/community/blogs/arthur-frommer-online/_one-percenting-of-disney-loses-wins

Sadly, I think his conclusions aren't that farfetched.

 

[scout68]

Spirit?
SPIRIT!



spirit...?





Spirit !?!?





spirit.

 

[Hakunamatata]

Good lord people. Let the man enjoy his time in seclusion.

 

[scout68]

Lighten up.

My guess is he will return when he wants.

I do however like to picture the cat hovering over his keyboard as a painter would stare down his canvas prepped and ready to parry and lunge his way to a blazing entrance.

 

[Nubs70]

So... clarifying before the Aliens get me (Cue @Cesar R M for the meme)

.... What I meant was Disney using FP+ to start to manage its staffing and cut back on labor hours. Rides arent fully staffed, lines get long despite lower attendance.

Its a theory at the moment but one of the more plausable ones....

And long lines during low attendance puts more people on the street buying food and merch.

 

[Goofyernmost]

Look up the Forbes CLEWI (cost of living extremely well index). This measures pricing increase in luxury goods. It has indeed outpaced inflation for the past 25 years, however nowhere near the level of increases in pricing that WDW tickets and hotel rooms have risen. However, looking at the income growth of the top 1%, even those CLEWI levels are a pittance. So, yes, @Gooyernmost, WDW is a luxury item and shouldn't be judged by cost of living increase rates. But compared to most every other luxury item over the past 25 years, WDW is far outpacing in price increases. Still doesn't seem to stop people from willing to pay the gouging.

Higher demand? If it's something that you are willing to spend money on, then there is no limit or ceiling until people no longer what to spend that much. Completely dictated by demand vs. limited supply. One also has to figure in that the original prices were ridiculously low. That automatically makes the percentage of increase to get to the proper rate much higher.

 

[Goofyernmost]

That's true. We are due for the Stock Market to take a dive - 1993, 2001, 2007/08/09. I was spoiled when I went back to Disney as an adult. September 2005 it was walk on to every ride - zero wait times.

When I look at what I see in the losses that I have taken just in the last two months in the market, I am hard pressed to believe that it isn't here now. It is spending my money even faster then I can.

 

[Goofyernmost]

The key is the 'luxury' market expects a certain level of service, WDW once delivered that level of service but no longer, Look at the HUGE discounts they offer in the UK and Latin America all to get the 'one and done' traveller there which contributes to the crowding this is not a sustainable business model in my opinion.

That is true for most luxury items, but, does not apply to a resort like WDW or any Disney park. They offer an experience not 14 carat gold fixtures. They offer an experience that is not available all over. It is a limited supply and a massive demand. That's what determines the price in a capitalistic system. Yet, everyone seems to not want a socialistic state, but, are always upset about capitalism. Gotta make up our minds here folks.

 

[Cesar R M]

No, thats 8-9 rides, attractions and experiences.

yes, but that would end in 6 rides + 3 "experiences" (aka fireworks + 2 parades).
even less if you count "experiences" as meet and greets.

 

[Cesar R M]

I covered that Cesar, inflation is pushed out there often. The problem is that inflation is not a relevant measurement when it comes to this. Inflation is measured by what it costs to maintain life when looked at as cost of living. In fact, I don't know if they still do, but, for a long while the costs of utilities, like gas and heating oil wasn't even in the discussion. Why? I don't know since it was a major part of what it costs us to live. So the cost of living index was way under reported, but, it made the government look good even though it was killing the rest of us.

Even if included, cost of living is just that. What it cost us to maintain life. Not what it costs us to maintain all the extra perks of life, just life itself. As much as I like Disney parks, I would be hard pressed to claim that without them I would literally die. Theme Parks and resorts are classified as luxury, unnecessary expense and therefore cannot be compared with the cost of living. Since it isn't required to maintain life, it is free to deal with what the market will bear. Apparently, judging from the crowd sizes, it is bearing quite well.

you're forgetting the culture of DEBT, CREDIT CARD and LEASING.

Before, it was pretty hard to get CC's or some sort of payment solution.
So I'm pretty sure most people now have to pay in parts and not in a single chunk of the days of "before".
Hence why people are still allowed to go to WDW for weeks.
Instead of saving, they now go into debt for the trip.
I dont think that will be sustainable in the long run.

 

[Cesar R M]

So... clarifying before the Aliens get me (Cue @Cesar R M for the meme)

.... What I meant was Disney using FP+ to start to manage its staffing and cut back on labor hours. Rides arent fully staffed, lines get long despite lower attendance.

Its a theory at the moment but one of the more plausable ones....

...aliens..

And long lines during low attendance puts more people on the street buying food and merch.

thats implying they have money left to buy said merch.

I remember parentsof4 also mentioning the declining of the merch sales.. and hence why the infamous magicband technique was born.

 

[Nubs70]

...aliens..

thats implying they have money left to buy said merch.

I remember parentsof4 also mentioning the declining of the merch sales.. and hence why the infamous magicband technique was born.

Exactly, if lines are too long, are bored, whiny kids, just wave the Magic Band and put your happiness on the credit card.

 

[Goofyernmost]

you're forgetting the culture of DEBT, CREDIT CARD and LEASING.

Before, it was pretty hard to get CC's or some sort of payment solution.
So I'm pretty sure most people now have to pay in parts and not in a single chunk of the days of "before".
Hence why people are still allowed to go to WDW for weeks.
Instead of saving, they now go into debt for the trip.
I dont think that will be sustainable in the long run.

It may not have been the norm, but, believe me, CC's were available and they were used to their max even back then. People went in debt back then too. Maybe not as many, but, then again there were as many people that went to places like WDW comparatively. It doesn't seem like it's sustainable, but, it has been going on for at least 4 decades now with a few personal disasters, but, it still drives the economy to a huge degree.

 

[SJN1279]

The only way to get Spirit to return is to retire this thread, and come up with a new one for random discussion.

 

[space42]

It may not have been the norm, but, believe me, CC's were available and they were used to their max even back then. People went in debt back then too. Maybe not as many, but, then again there were as many people that went to places like WDW comparatively. It doesn't seem like it's sustainable, but, it has been going on for at least 4 decades now with a few personal disasters, but, it still drives the economy to a huge degree.

My 'middle class' family took many trips in the 70's - 80's and always stayed on site. We didn't have to max out the credit cards to do so.

I was able to afford trips on my own starting in the late 80's working part time and payed in cash. I stay at Ft. Wilderness.