A Spirited Perfect Ten

Goofyernmost

Well-Known Member
how the hell a Frozen M&G is a E?
or Dumbo?

someone already mentioned what the most qualifications were for each ranking ticket. so no idea why you say "based on popularity".
Read it again Cesar, I didn't say it was, I said based on just popularity, it would be an "E". Why because try and get a FP for Frozen. And Dumbo's popularity was so high that they had to double it's capacity. It was more to illustrate that we, as individuals, should not be attempting to make a general statement about what is a "E" or what isn't. We can, however, decide what we personally think is a must do. However, the E ticket has not existed now for 33 years. It is dead and buried along with most of the people that had any idea how it was arrived at.

There is no current definition and it is completely dependent on personal likes or dislikes. Disney at the time created popularity on specific attractions by assigning that label to whatever they chose to do it with. We don't know the internal thinking or guidelines so why do we keep thinking that we do.
 

Funmeister

Well-Known Member
Anyone happen to know if the distance from International Gateway to Norway and the distance from the maingate to Norway are comparable? This could get really ugly at park opening.

Edit: The way it is laid out they will probably funnel IG traffic into traffic from the maingate.
 

asianway

Well-Known Member
Anyone happen to know if the distance from International Gateway to Norway and the distance from the maingate to Norway are comparable? This could get really ugly at park opening.

Edit: The way it is laid out they will probably funnel IG traffic into traffic from the maingate.
IG slightly closer no? Standing at the WS plaza I think it's closer to IG than front
 

Funmeister

Well-Known Member
IG slightly closer no? Standing at the WS plaza I think it's closer to IG than front

It appears that IG is a little closer. If they allow guests to go towards Test Track and cut through the Odyssey to Mexico they may have a chance. They could also merge guests with IG traffic at Mexico. They could always put up a rope where both crowds merge and then let them go together. We had to do that on occasion to prevent guests from running to Splash and BTM in the mornings.

Pointless for IG guests to go the other way around WS.
 

englanddg

One Little Spark...
Nope. Oddly, I traced the path on Google Earth.

I would have thought the IG was closer...but...

IG to Norway is 3589 feet, going through France, and front gate (starting from the turnstyles) to Norway is 2668 feet.

Edit - I just did it from IG to Norway going through UK instead, and it is a bit shorter at 2553 feet.
 

ChrisFL

Premium Member
Read it again Cesar, I didn't say it was, I said based on just popularity, it would be an "E". Why because try and get a FP for Frozen. And Dumbo's popularity was so high that they had to double it's capacity. It was more to illustrate that we, as individuals, should not be attempting to make a general statement about what is a "E" or what isn't. We can, however, decide what we personally think is a must do. However, the E ticket has not existed now for 33 years. It is dead and buried along with most of the people that had any idea how it was arrived at.

There is no current definition and it is completely dependent on personal likes or dislikes. Disney at the time created popularity on specific attractions by assigning that label to whatever they chose to do it with. We don't know the internal thinking or guidelines so why do we keep thinking that we do.

Hall of Presidents was an E-ticket
 

Mike S

Well-Known Member
Agreed, but most people would never guess that it was an E-ticket
Sadly yes. Last time I saw HoP though there was a pretty big audience, biggest I've seen I think but I'm not sure. Big applause at the end as well.

ETA: Is it just me or are both HoP and AA kept in great condition? Never noticed glaring problems with either of them. A rarity in today's WDW.
 

Funmeister

Well-Known Member
Nope. Oddly, I traced the path on Google Earth.

I would have thought the IG was closer...but...

IG to Norway is 3589 feet, going through France, and front gate (starting from the turnstyles) to Norway is 2668 feet.

Edit - I just did it from IG to Norway going through UK instead, and it is a bit shorter at 2553 feet.

Thanks for doing that.

Let the fastest guest(s) win!
 

George

Liker of Things
Premium Member
Nope. Oddly, I traced the path on Google Earth.

I would have thought the IG was closer...but...

IG to Norway is 3589 feet, going through France, and front gate (starting from the turnstyles) to Norway is 2668 feet.

Edit - I just did it from IG to Norway going through UK instead, and it is a bit shorter at 2553 feet.

Had those pegged as almost exactly the same. Good work.
 

flynnibus

Premium Member
I'm not sure I follow.

Is there anything fundamentally wrong with running four theme parks of differing size, purpose, and popularity?

What if you ran a store on a very very very busy street... and the stores on both sides of you are busting at the seams busy... while your store remains at just 30% capacity... and not nearly the # of people are entering your store as your neighbors. Do you think you are doing a good job?

Don't forget... EPCOT has capacity OUT THE WAZOO - but TWDC can't get it utilized even tho they have enough people on property to make the MK bulge. The other parks are similar, but not with same kind of glut of capacity Epcot has.

A healthy resort would have all of the capacity optimized and you are retaining your guests as long as possible (so you extract as much as possible from them). Lopsided utilization is not healthy.
 

flynnibus

Premium Member
They cannot grow attendance at the other parks without a serious investment of capital in new attractions.
That's not "easy", that's expensive, and if Disney knew that the return on that investment would pay for itself (it probably wouldn't) they would have begun the builds-outs.

It is within their ability.. they just know its EASIER to just raise prices and get the same short-term effect.. without any spending at all. Why invest when you can just increase prices over and over?

It's not that the ROI isn't feasible.. it's that they have an even easier out because of their legacy.

It's growth when they continue to reduce operating costs yet increase admission and concession prices.
The goal is not to increase park attendance indefinitely; the goal is to maximize return on the existing infrastructure and available market. They're doing that.

Reduce cost by reducing offerings.. and raise prices... keep doing so until the camel's back breaks. That's not a bottomless well.
 

flynnibus

Premium Member
... you might, but it hasn't, because growing attendance at the second-tier parks is not one of the core objectives of Disney's strategy.

dope.jpg


What planet do you live on? You really think Disney wants the higher operation cost of running one park at stress levels, while still having to run all the overhead of other parks at lackluster levels?

The parks are insane costs to run... once you open the door you want the maximum return on that spend. Your own narrative falls flat in front of Disney actually trying to do things like extend days at DCA, DAK, etc with more evening entertainment.

Greater attendance and retention in each of the parks = higher capacity for the resort. Higher capacity for the resort = greater potential revenue. More balanced utilization = best efficiency and greater margins.
 

the.dreamfinder

Well-Known Member
A lawsuit by former NCAA athletes against the networks who broadcast their games, including ABC/ESPN, over player compensation was thrown out today. What's really unfortunate here is the lawyers representing the players chose the broadcast networks over the lack of compensation due to the player's "amateur" status as opposed to the NCAA and the colleges themselves. It's all in how you set up the battle, not in how much you want to fight it.
http://variety.com/2015/biz/news/ju...ek-payment-from-espn-broadcasters-1201512745/
 

ThemeParkJunkee

Well-Known Member
My daughter was just today, able to let people know that her company was working on a "Star Wars" mobile game. She has kept it under wraps for quite some time. Can't believe she couldn't tell her mom. Apparently the story broke today in the news. I wonder if they had any advance information regarding the new movie. It is showing up in Google as a top story.
 

doctornick

Well-Known Member
Y'know, I think the points about Epcot's capacity are quite good. While I'm one who things that Epcot is in better shape than both DHS and DAK currently -- it's problems are thematic, but there are plenty of stuff to do and see still -- the point that the park can handle far more guests is interesting. It is indeed a huge park in terms of space and encouraging more guests to go there and for longer would make sense for all of WDW. Epcot is particularly good at monetizing guests with the food/drink/shopping so you would think that the folks in Burbank would see potential there that is unrealized.

I'm strongly an advocate of putting more rides in WS. I think that would really help to spread crowds around and "encourage" people to walk around the lagoon and maybe shop/eat on the way because something catches their eye. Putting something like Mt. Fuji in Japan (or building Switzerland with the Matterhorn or putting in an Italy or Germany boat ride) would be a great addition. And, quite frankly, having more attractions that would draw in adults makes sense with potential beverage sales which is such high margin.

Disney really should make it their goal to get Epcot to 15M guests and there's no reason they shouldn't be able to do so.
 

Bairstow

Well-Known Member
First of all, cute image macro.
It's nice to see that quickmeme is still in service.

It is within their ability.. they just know its EASIER to just raise prices and get the same short-term effect.. without any spending at all. Why invest when you can just increase prices over and over?

Why indeed?
Whatever they're doing, it's working just fine.
Perhaps you believe Disney could have made more money overall had they invested to the extent Universal has during the same time period.
That may or may not be true, but the hard fact is that Disney chose not to and expanded their business greatly on that decision.
This hasn't been a short-term strategy or effect, either. Disney has slowed expansion and been steadily raising prices for over a decade with great success.

It's not that the ROI isn't feasible.. it's that they have an even easier out because of their legacy.



Reduce cost by reducing offerings.. and raise prices... keep doing so until the camel's back breaks. That's not a bottomless well.

No, but since all we have to go by is the numbers, we're not at the bottom of the well or at the point at which the camel's back breaks- whichever metaphor you liked better.

A lot of people thought Disney's attendance would crest when they raised the single-park admission for the Magic Kingdom above $75
These people were wrong.
A lot of people thought Disney's attendance would crest when Disney closed attractions at the Studios without having new ones ready.
These people were wrong.
A lot of people thought Disney's attendance would crest when they raised the single-park admission for the Magic Kingdom above $100.
We'll see if they're wrong, but given Disney's recent survey efforts exploring date-dependent raises in prices, it would seem that the bottom of the well is still no where in sight.


View attachment 95757

What planet do you live on? You really think Disney wants the higher operation cost of running one park at stress levels, while still having to run all the overhead of other parks at lackluster levels?

The parks are insane costs to run... once you open the door you want the maximum return on that spend. Your own narrative falls flat in front of Disney actually trying to do things like extend days at DCA, DAK, etc with more evening entertainment.

Greater attendance and retention in each of the parks = higher capacity for the resort. Higher capacity for the resort = greater potential revenue. More balanced utilization = best efficiency and greater margins.

Raising park attendance equally across the parks is not one of Disney's core goals.
Selling park admission is.
If the Magic Kingdom is the shiny, popular park that drives the multiday hopper ticket sales for the rest of them, that's all they need.
The data we have from TEA doesn't reflect how many of the "first-click" admissions are for multi-day hoppers, but the impression I get is that this is still the most popular ticket type Disney sells. As long as the overhead from the second-tier parks is enough to justify people buying the multipark tickets and booking an on-property resort stay, Disney is getting what it wants.

The bottom line is that while a lot of people on this forum enjoy giving themselves an ego trip by imagining that they know how to run Disney's park division better than Disney does, the company employs hundreds of analysts and strategists far more educated in these matters and has access to much better and more detailed data than the fans do. In light of the company's record attendance numbers and profits, I listen to voices on this forum second guessing this success, and am not persuaded.
 

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