A Spirited Perfect Ten

[ThemeParkJunkee]

There is no way in Hades that TWDC considers it acceptable for little or no growth to occur in the Orlando Parks that are not the MK. They want a captive audience at a destination resort where their hotels, themed shopping mall, water parks and theme parks serve to distribute guest in a manner in which all guests feel "value" to the point that they continue to make this their vacation destination.

Perhaps they have an acceptable downturn in attendance allowed during construction as long as the resort as a whole has increases in both attendance and revenue (revenue largely a function of price increases BTW). I think they hope to re-distribute an ever growing guest level among the venues over time to give guests a "perceived value" (no ridiculous overcrowding at a price point they will accept). In order for this to occur, all parks need to have some redeeming value to the repeat guest. That cannot be achieved without improvements to EP and the yet unnamed park formerly known as DHS.

 

[Bairstow]

There is no way in Hades that TWDC considers it acceptable for little or no growth to occur in the Orlando Parks that are not the MK. They want a captive audience at a destination resort where their hotels, themed shopping mall, water parks and theme parks serve to distribute guest in a manner in which all guests feel "value" to the point that they continue to make this their vacation destination.

Perhaps they have an acceptable downturn in attendance allowed during construction as long as the resort as a whole has increases in both attendance and revenue (revenue largely a function of price increases BTW). I think they hope to re-distribute an ever growing guest level among the venues over time to give guests a "perceived value" (no ridiculous overcrowding at a price point they will accept). In order for this to occur, all parks need to have some redeeming value to the repeat guest. That cannot be achieved without improvements to EP and the yet unnamed park formerly known as DHS.

...but the data shows that attendance to all of these parks is growing without significant improvements, and with rises in costs.

 

[Cesar R M]

Why can't Disney have this out all the time? Those were actually really cool!!!

"cost cutting" for sure.

 

[doctornick]

There is no way in Hades that TWDC considers it acceptable for little or no growth to occur in the Orlando Parks that are not the MK.

I dunno. Their actions seem to suggest they are fine with that as long as revenues hit their targets.

 

[Cesar R M]

View attachment 95723

Attendance from 1992-2014. Epcot/DHS/DAK simply are not growing and certainly not at the rate of MK.

Though to be fair, MK was already slipping attendance wise before 2001 and didnt show its current growth curve until the travel parkets bounced back, 2004-ish.

Simply put, the all the parks were close in attendance 20 years ago. Now they're nowhere close to one another.

theline for epcot is.. sad..

 

[PhotoDave219]

14% growth in 20 years is not growth, IMO.

 

[Cesar R M]

What are Disney's core objectives then?

clearly magicbands, stockbuybacks, cost cuts, bow to their new chinese overlords, meet and greets and themed bathrooms.

 

[Cesar R M]

Agreed, and this, in my opinion, is when the whole house of cards could come undone. TDO's business model is based on the idea that you never leave their property - don't rent a car, don't eat off site, don't sleep offsite. If, however, Universal eventually becomes compelling enough for enough people, those people then rent a car. When the benefit of DME evaporates, one begins to then question Disney's room rates. And, once you are offsite, the value of the dining plan disappears, and instead of a trickle, Disney could see it losing large amounts of money quickly.

That said, we haven't seen this happen (yet, at least). And, on some level, I think many of Disney's guests are too dumb to connect these dots anyway.

or they just lack information.
It took me a lot of research for my first trip for WDW.
And still, I only scratched the surface.
When people search "Disney World". They usually only get information explicitly of Disney World. not of the other attractions of parks.

 

[Cesar R M]

Oh...... you're one of the "Disney is a business" crowd. Here and thought you were better than that.

you welcome dave.. photo credits to @Mike S

 

[ThemeParkJunkee]

I dunno. Their actions seem to suggest they are fine with that as long as revenues hit their targets.

The other points of my post included the acknowledgement that revenue increases were largely due to park entry increases as well as merch and menu price increases (supported by earnings calls quotes from Iger and Staggs). I also noted the concept of "perceived guest value". The entire tiered ticket pricing as well as more above average attendance days at MK indicate that WDW needs to and wants to keep guests onsite while spreading them out more. I am sure they fervently hope that "Disney Springs" will keep them spending and spending but many guests prefer in park experiences. Perceived value per Disney's terms include the elusive 8-9 "attractions" per day in the parks. How does that translate to a half shuttered DHS (or whatever they end up calling it). Perhaps, lowering the price of park-hoppers will work in the short term. IDK. I am speculating based on all the factors and threads I have been reading.

ETA: I'm just using my MBA stuff a little here.

 

[Cesar R M]

Better attractions will bring people to Animal Kingdom and Studios parks with little controversy but for some reason new attractions at Epcot make Epcot fans mad. They like their oversized science project/world's fair park.

Well.... there is a huge difference in "adding new attractions" with "replacing old attractions for a half assed re-theme that doesn't fit"

 

[Cesar R M]

I believe NYE last year started phase closure at Epcot (there is a possibility I am wrong, but as a female I claim that can't ever really happen ). Total attendance for that day was less than 100k

Dont give me that please.. Its scaring me... as I am planning in going to NYE event at either Epcot or MK on this year. D:

IT WAS MISERABLE.... I will not be going to the next Millennium event at EPCOT...

*1023*

I'm confused. You were planning in getting your grand grand grandsons to bring your casket to the next millenium event at NYE? (if there isn't a Metro2033/Fallout type cataclysm of course)

 

[PhotoDave219]

Dont give me that please.. Its scaring me... as I am planning in going to NYE event at either Epcot or MK on this year. D:

Epcot is the better choice, IMO.

Kingdom is bedlam from noontime on.

 

[flynnibus]

@Bairstow your mentality of just focusing on the outcome right now and nothing else is the definition of a blind folower. The consequence of such thinking is you'll never adapt, you'll never lead, and you'll never expand. Its also the line of thought that leads companies that were great... To eventually fail because they are stubborn and not believe anything but what they used to do.

I cant even articulate how dangerous such thinking is. Selling all your organs will deliever great financial results too.. Doesnt mean its the way forward to fund your future

 

[AEfx]

14% growth in 20 years is not growth, IMO.

Which 14% are you referring to? If it's the one I mentioned, it's the percentage more of admissions being sold in Orlando to the 7 major parks from 2009 to 2014.

 

[PhotoDave219]

View attachment 95765
you welcome dave.. photo credits to @Mike S

Generally, anyone who falls back on that mentality gets put on ignore. And rightfuly so.

Of course "Disney is a Business"... what else have we been discussing primarily in this thread? Why else does Parentsof4 go to the effort to make some seriously researched charts? Hell, Why do I?

 

[Cesar R M]

The concept of those mountains are much more "Disney" to me than what they're doing in Norway and I'll stand by that.

That's certainly news to me. I can't imagine who would hate seeing those things looming over World Showcase. Just last trip I was imagining it as I looked at Japan. It sure would be awesome.

Agree!

what is happening at Norway is nothing "Disney". It just screams "Bean counters on the cheap and Wall Street Goons/Mafia throwing dumb ideas"

 

[PhotoDave219]

Which 14% are you referring to? If it's the one I mentioned, it's the percentage more of admissions being sold in Orlando to the 7 major parks from 2009 to 2014.

Sorry, Epcot. Refer to one of the charts i posted earlier.

From 1992-2014 (22 Years), Epcot showed 14% attendance growth.

 

[AEfx]

Sorry, Epcot. Refer to one of the charts i posted earlier.

From 1992-2014 (22 Years), Epcot showed 14% attendance growth.

Gotchya.

With so many flying around I think this is what I imagine the inside of @ParentsOf4 's brain looks like, though I presume they are much more orderly LOL.

 

[Cesar R M]

Read it again Cesar, I didn't say it was, I said based on just popularity, it would be an "E". Why because try and get a FP for Frozen. And Dumbo's popularity was so high that they had to double it's capacity. It was more to illustrate that we, as individuals, should not be attempting to make a general statement about what is a "E" or what isn't. We can, however, decide what we personally think is a must do. However, the E ticket has not existed now for 33 years. It is dead and buried along with most of the people that had any idea how it was arrived at.

There is no current definition and it is completely dependent on personal likes or dislikes. Disney at the time created popularity on specific attractions by assigning that label to whatever they chose to do it with. We don't know the internal thinking or guidelines so why do we keep thinking that we do.

popularity? or more like lack of CAPACITY in the park?

It is within their ability.. they just know its EASIER to just raise prices and get the same short-term effect.. without any spending at all. Why invest when you can just increase prices over and over?

It's not that the ROI isn't feasible.. it's that they have an even easier out because of their legacy.



Reduce cost by reducing offerings.. and raise prices... keep doing so until the camel's back breaks. That's not a bottomless well.

I wonder if they're doing this on purpose just to see how much the people can handle.. before bailing and quitting (aka all board investors and Bob bailing out and cashing their bonus, calling it a job well done)