TalkingHead
Well-Known Member
The reader comments on the Washington Post article are depressing but also illustrative of why Disney can get away with its pricing strategies.
-
Welcome to the WDWMAGIC.COM Forums!
Please take a look around, and feel free to sign up and join the community.
A Spirited Perfect Ten
- Thread starter WDW1974
- Start date
flyerjab
Well-Known Member
I read this article and found it rather interesting, as it poses a situation analogous to what many people have said for the past however many years regarding the shrinking middle-class of this country.
I am going to quote the last section of the article:
***With gilded offerings like that, Disney clearly has something going for it, and few expect the park will lose its luster with American vacationers anytime soon. If anything, the ascending prices could help solve another of Disney’s problems, by thinning its snaking lines and relentless crowds.
But that hasn’t stopped some Disney lovers from mourning a time when the magic of parks like Disneyland, the “happiest place on Earth,” was something nearly everyone could enjoy.
“As a business professor, it’s the right strategy,” said Smith, the University of South Carolina professor. “But as a kid who started there with his first job at 16, steeped in the tradition? It does make me sad that something that was set up by Walt, who wanted all families to be able to spend time together in a fun atmosphere and be able to afford it, is going by the wayside.”***
Regarding the first sentence I underlined, I was thinking this the moment that I first saw the possible adjusted price hikes throughout a given year. People complain constantly about how absolutely crowded the parks are, especially MK. I can attest to it myself as on one trip two years ago, we walked in and got as far as TL and decided it wasn't worth it, turned around, and went right back to the pool at the resort. This would be the best way for Disney to thin out the crowds: push the ticket prices up during extreme periods of park attendance. Cut out a part of the visitors that refuse to pay that much money to go to MK…and oh yeah, maybe they will spend more time at the other 3 less visited parks. Maybe the MK will be less crowded, but at less of a cost to The Mouse because the visitors still going are paying more to enter. This is where you get to profitability vs. the overall guest experience. As of now, my family would still be able to afford it, but I know that there are many others that can't. It will be fascinating to see if this will work if implemented. But yes, in the end it is a beneficially cost-effective way for the company to help trim down the crowds a bit at the MK - monetized crowd control. It would be interesting to see what numbers/trends @lentesta would come up with.
Regarding the second underlined sentence, I am no Disney historian, but I have perused the forums enough to have learned a thing or two about him. Walt was no business man of the Modern World, so-to-speak. And he really, truly seemed to care about the people, wanting them to have the most extraordinary experience possible when visiting Disneyland. If only the world could be run that way. I have come to accept the fact that the classically trained people that run this mega-corporation that is TWDC of today, will always play the word game. They speak of decisions made with the best of intentions for their guests. In the end though, it is mostly to drive up profits, add value to the stock to keep shareholders happy, and to extend profit margins to insane distances. And of course, we live in America, so this will continue to be the mode in which this company will operate.
I still think, however, that middle-class families can afford an enjoyable vacation in WDW. I just feel like their focus has switched as of late. It is almost like the 'powers that be' realized that this company has spent the majority of its existence catering to the middle-class and suddenly thought, "wait a minute, maybe there is an entire other level of clientele that we haven't really tapped into yet," as the middle class slowly dissolves into yesteryear. Suddenly, you have a Four Seasons on site that sells $100 T-shirts (not exaggerating), deluxe resorts with room rates higher than those in the Four Seasons, Golden Oak homes, Poly bungalows that can cost upwards of $3000/night (I still can't believe that, but on our Mother's Day trip, there clearly were people in them) and soon-to-be WL cabins that will probably boast similar price points as the bungalows, not to mention the up-charge events, or the up-charge event within an up-charge event. To me, the past few years have felt like a light switch went on in Iger's head, with a little voice commanding him to start catering to the 1%.
I don't necessarily agree with the main point of the article regarding the middle-class being priced out. To me, it seems as though they are being ignored, or put on hold for the current time. I just don't know how much longer it will last for Iger and his team. At some moment in the future, things will turn, especially with UNI adding a new deluxe water park, another on site property, kong and who knows what else. I hope it can be successfully navigated but TWDC has become a thousand-headed monster. WDW especially seems to be challenged in a way that may prove difficult to ascertain some type of victory aside from bringing in gobs of money. We are asking the largest resort in the world to offer an inexpensive (or not too expensive) experience that still feels unique and special to each visitor. With over 19 million visitors at the MK in 2014 alone, it almost seems an impossibility. At least the forums should always have something to talk about.
I am going to quote the last section of the article:
***With gilded offerings like that, Disney clearly has something going for it, and few expect the park will lose its luster with American vacationers anytime soon. If anything, the ascending prices could help solve another of Disney’s problems, by thinning its snaking lines and relentless crowds.
But that hasn’t stopped some Disney lovers from mourning a time when the magic of parks like Disneyland, the “happiest place on Earth,” was something nearly everyone could enjoy.
“As a business professor, it’s the right strategy,” said Smith, the University of South Carolina professor. “But as a kid who started there with his first job at 16, steeped in the tradition? It does make me sad that something that was set up by Walt, who wanted all families to be able to spend time together in a fun atmosphere and be able to afford it, is going by the wayside.”***
Regarding the first sentence I underlined, I was thinking this the moment that I first saw the possible adjusted price hikes throughout a given year. People complain constantly about how absolutely crowded the parks are, especially MK. I can attest to it myself as on one trip two years ago, we walked in and got as far as TL and decided it wasn't worth it, turned around, and went right back to the pool at the resort. This would be the best way for Disney to thin out the crowds: push the ticket prices up during extreme periods of park attendance. Cut out a part of the visitors that refuse to pay that much money to go to MK…and oh yeah, maybe they will spend more time at the other 3 less visited parks. Maybe the MK will be less crowded, but at less of a cost to The Mouse because the visitors still going are paying more to enter. This is where you get to profitability vs. the overall guest experience. As of now, my family would still be able to afford it, but I know that there are many others that can't. It will be fascinating to see if this will work if implemented. But yes, in the end it is a beneficially cost-effective way for the company to help trim down the crowds a bit at the MK - monetized crowd control. It would be interesting to see what numbers/trends @lentesta would come up with.
Regarding the second underlined sentence, I am no Disney historian, but I have perused the forums enough to have learned a thing or two about him. Walt was no business man of the Modern World, so-to-speak. And he really, truly seemed to care about the people, wanting them to have the most extraordinary experience possible when visiting Disneyland. If only the world could be run that way. I have come to accept the fact that the classically trained people that run this mega-corporation that is TWDC of today, will always play the word game. They speak of decisions made with the best of intentions for their guests. In the end though, it is mostly to drive up profits, add value to the stock to keep shareholders happy, and to extend profit margins to insane distances. And of course, we live in America, so this will continue to be the mode in which this company will operate.
I still think, however, that middle-class families can afford an enjoyable vacation in WDW. I just feel like their focus has switched as of late. It is almost like the 'powers that be' realized that this company has spent the majority of its existence catering to the middle-class and suddenly thought, "wait a minute, maybe there is an entire other level of clientele that we haven't really tapped into yet," as the middle class slowly dissolves into yesteryear. Suddenly, you have a Four Seasons on site that sells $100 T-shirts (not exaggerating), deluxe resorts with room rates higher than those in the Four Seasons, Golden Oak homes, Poly bungalows that can cost upwards of $3000/night (I still can't believe that, but on our Mother's Day trip, there clearly were people in them) and soon-to-be WL cabins that will probably boast similar price points as the bungalows, not to mention the up-charge events, or the up-charge event within an up-charge event. To me, the past few years have felt like a light switch went on in Iger's head, with a little voice commanding him to start catering to the 1%.
I don't necessarily agree with the main point of the article regarding the middle-class being priced out. To me, it seems as though they are being ignored, or put on hold for the current time. I just don't know how much longer it will last for Iger and his team. At some moment in the future, things will turn, especially with UNI adding a new deluxe water park, another on site property, kong and who knows what else. I hope it can be successfully navigated but TWDC has become a thousand-headed monster. WDW especially seems to be challenged in a way that may prove difficult to ascertain some type of victory aside from bringing in gobs of money. We are asking the largest resort in the world to offer an inexpensive (or not too expensive) experience that still feels unique and special to each visitor. With over 19 million visitors at the MK in 2014 alone, it almost seems an impossibility. At least the forums should always have something to talk about.
Last edited:
Mike S
Well-Known Member
$15 for EPCOT Center or $90 for Epcot? I'm gonna have to think about that one...........
MerlinTheGoat
Well-Known Member
Oh be quiet you smelly old Disney World hater. I think I speak for all of us (at least the mature and intelligent of us Di$ney fans) by saying I absolutely can't wait for the next opportunity to get skunk farted on by Figment. And I look forward to waiting in line for 20 hours to see Elsa and Olaf. Now if only they'd replace American Adventure with Woody and Buzz's American Adventure (music by Randy Newman).
Goofyernmost
Well-Known Member
Here's the 1983 pricing:
Goofyernmost
Well-Known Member
Everyone does need to remember and factor in, that even though the daily rates were very low, the multi-day tickets were only for two parks. The cost of a multi-day ticket now is about $60.00* a day for a ten day any park pass. That difference is a whole lot less shocking. Plus you didn't have an option back then you bought a ticket it was for two parks whether you wanted to go to both or not. Basically the exact same price per ticket.
* I didn't take the time to look it up on the Disney site, but, it is either close or possibly less then that. The down side, no longer non-experation.
* I didn't take the time to look it up on the Disney site, but, it is either close or possibly less then that. The down side, no longer non-experation.
michmousefan
Well-Known Member
Just makes it easier to finish up on the show floor that day and head over to DL.
ford91exploder
Resident Curmudgeon
I think I'm gonna be ill...
polynesiangirl
Well-Known Member
Hahaha, the first time I read this, I read it as "20 minutes", and I was like "wow, that guy's REALLY optimistic."
MerlinTheGoat
Well-Known Member
Nah lol, 20 hours is only slightly optimistic!Hahaha, the first time I read this, I read it as "20 minutes", and I was like "wow, that guy's REALLY optimistic."
gmajew
Well-Known Member
would it not be expansion..... It is all new events or projects.
PhotoDave219
Well-Known Member
Hahaha, the first time I read this, I read it as "20 minutes", and I was like "wow, that guy's REALLY optimistic."
Yeah, you rope drop it and the posted wait will be 60-90 minutes.
Goofyernmost
Well-Known Member
In my memory it was good, but, I wouldn't classify it as great. The buildings in MK though only about 12 years old at the time, were fairly drab looking, but, the experience was great. Bare in mind that I was from Vermont and our idea of an exciting time was either watching the grass grow (when it wasn't covered with snow) or going on down to the fire station and watch them wash the firetrucks. That year, EPCOT was impossible. The lines were miles long and there was no evidence of Disney's famous ability to move people around. Attractions were limited and we decided after an hour and a half wait to see the Film in Imagination (don't remember the name off the top of my head, but, the ride wasn't open yet) we decided to pack it in and drove to the Kennedy Space Center instead.
Also, even though I was working full time, what it costs to enter was equivalent to today's prices, if not higher for us. It took months of saving and a significant amount on a credit card for us to go. I know that someone will come up with the numbers that say that it takes more hours today to get enough money to go then it did back then. I don't think that they factor in the median income was much smaller back then, but, I'm sure the averages brought it back up to what is being used for comparison. I made $150.00 per week supporting a family of 4. In the early 2000's I was still considered middle class but made almost $900.00 per week. It kinda defies all those number that are arrived at by using national averages. It wasn't always easily financed for ALL the people anymore then it is today. With so many family's today having double incomes, forced by the need to pay huge mortgages, there is still enough left to bring the family even at today's prices. Percentage wise, yes it is much higher, but, the proof is in the fact that the place is way more crowded today then it was back then. They are either printing their own money or it is available in one form or the other.
BrianLo
Well-Known Member
Finished up, was there for 3 days Sunday-Tuesday.
-Paint the Nights was excellent. Really comes together quite well when seen in person. Things like Tinkerbell on a stick work a lot more effectively than a photo would lead you to believe. The face projected characters really work well. The Mac truck is not actually a giant screen like I thought, but a series of bulbs on a string that look quite cool in reality. Much like dream lights is a step up from the electrical parade, this is another step forward. It's the best of the new offerings, which is well and good since it is the most likely to stay around the longest.
-The fireworks are a like and dislike - they are just about what you'd expect from the next splashy Steve Davidson firework spectacle. I disliked the fact they were cancelled 2/3 nights (and apparently multiple days before my visit too). They have a very, very low cancellation threshold if the one night was any indication. I only saw them one-third from being shuffled through the park and two-thirds from Rivers of America. I rushed in post-WOC as I had a funny feeling if I didn't I wouldn't see them period. You really need a vantage of the castle and Matterhorn to get a full experience though. It's nice that they essentially encourage the 9pm Fantasmic showing to stay still and just watch the fireworks from Rivers of America. If you want a spot though, especially with the first showing of Paint the Nights, you have to be there quite early.
-Fantasmic fastpass works quite well, no issue grabbing a decent standing location if you have the fast pass for it. 9 pm Fantasmic, 9:30 fireworks from Rivers of America and 11 pm paint the nights makes for the most 'enjoyable'/non-rat-race way of seeing everything.
-I enjoyed the new world of colour, it was nice to see a change. I've seen some complaints about the two sections clearly inserted by marketing, but I'll be honest, the crowd clapped the loudest for those two. They also have the most added in-audience effects, which are a new thing. Those played quite well.
In terms of other additions...
-I never experienced the Yeti, but I can't imagine he was all that far off the new Abominable Harold AA's. The Matterhorn is much improved for it, much like a working yeti would be to Everest.
-Took three spins on Haunted Mansion, first day the hat-box ghost was working and looked excellent. Days 2/3 my dune buggy stopped in front of him both times, except he was in some sort of B-mode. The AA itself was working, but the projected face was frozen and obviously was not switching back and forth. It's a more obvious projection when it is static. Hopefully that gets sorted.
-Thumbs up to the emporium windows
-Thumbs up to the castle overlay. Especially at night when the lighting package makes it more reminiscent of the royal blue/purple colour pallet from the concept art. Not that an overlay should overstay its welcome, but if this one did it wouldn't be another big hat scenario.
-Soarin' in HD is MUCH improved, still a general crowd pleaser. The new land overlay is a big improvement (maybe based on how bad it was before). I think it will really look great in 5-10 years as the cedars mature.
-Other things in the resort were looking top notch. Noticeably lots of things are improved from the subs, to Space mountain's exterior to small world.
-Lots of other 60th nods from new songs by Five & Dime/Red Trolley News boys, to a segment for the Mad Tea Party. It's pervasive (but not horribly so) and feels like a real, proper celebration.
One other big like/dislike
-Carthay was awesome, first time dining there and I'd definitely recommend it. Everything was top-notch.
-Blue Bayou... probably the biggest negative of the trip. Never been before, but I wanted to do it as an end of trip experiential thing. Yes, I have heard it is questionably worth the money.
-I had a reservation (which they had difficulty finding no less), but decided to walk away after waiting in a 15 minute check in line and waiting an additional 20 minutes in the lobby for my table (which still wasn't remotely ready with the waiting lobby busting at the seems). It was no ones fault per-say and I felt for them with how busy it was, but just figured it was pretty indicative of the upcoming service that I was no longer in the mood to pay 60-odd USD for. I was pretty annoyed how initially reluctant they were to cancel and how much of a 'favour' they were doing to cancel without the fee (for the reservation they couldn't initally find in the first place). I pointed out how I was on a Fantasmic dining package that I doubted they'd actually be able to serve me in time to make the show at this point...
-On a happy note, I grabbed a fried green tomato sandwich from the hungry bear cafe, took it over to main street, watched PTN and the 10:45 Fantasmic in an excellent spot and wasn't 60 dollars in the hole. Lesson learned: don't get the dining package as it's not worth it for the current ease of seating, and try to go there for lunch when it is cheaper and you are not pressed for time. Or maybe don't go at all...
So as not to end on a negative note, the 60th was altogether quite well done. I went to TDL's 30th as well, this was even better.
BrianLo
Well-Known Member
For those playing along at home...
TDS is about to get a major expansion not preventing a 15th celebration with 3 overhauled entertainment shows and a big attraction overlay.
TDL is about to get a major expansion with other big refurbs like Pan, parade/entertainment overhauls etc.
HKDL just finished a major expansion and is opening another E-ticket next year... plus those other things @WDW1974 perpetually teases me about.
WDS just finished a major expansion last year and has some large attraction overlays coming with perhaps two other attractions coming this decade (Spidey and TSMM).
DLP is getting an aggressive enhancement plan involving 8 of their attractions.
DCA finished a major expansion this decade and had an additional major land forthcoming.
DL is having a huge 60th celebration and has a major Star Wars land incoming this decade.
SDL represents a major (albeit, slightly troubled) park.
AK is getting a major expansion, new nighttime entertainment, etc.
MK got what Disney coins a major expansion last year and parade, although nothing of substance forthcoming.
Wait... am I majorly forgetting any other parks this decade?
HauntedMansionFLA
Well-Known Member
EPCOT question ( which has been covered in the past. We know it's been bad shape, needs TLC big time and has so much potential. Future world needs the most help. They could start with the East side by replacing Ellen's Energy with something that doesn't take 45 minutes to ride. Second, turn the festival Center back into an attraction, third - move something good into Innoventions. West side - looks like the Inside out movie might be a hit ( better than Tomorrowland ). That may end up in Imagination. If disney did something with EPCOT, it would help take pressure off the MK. I'm pleased with what they are doing with DAK. Hopefully SW land comes in the new ten years.
Mike S
Well-Known Member
Isn't that just the color scheme they had back then? I remember someone here said the colors used to be more muted and not as bright so they wouldn't fade in the sun as easily or something.
lazyboy97o
Well-Known Member
The colors were more muted because the color schemes were aiming more for authenticity than cartoon.
Goofyernmost
Well-Known Member
Could be... It wasn't that it didn't look nice, because it did, but, it just seemed less vibrantly colored at the time and that might be the reason or after 12 years they might have faded. Anything is possible.