A Spirited Perfect Ten

ThemeParkJunkee

Well-Known Member
Thanks Dave...I technically never posted the link or identifiable information for her protection. However, she is part of the reason I follow these boards and they are suggesting a trip to China. I suggested she not go and the Chinese Americans (three top people) go instead. I think they would rather she go to Vancouver.
 

PhotoDave219

Well-Known Member
Thanks Dave...I technically never posted the link or identifiable information for her protection. However, she is part of the reason I follow these boards and they are suggesting a trip to China. I suggested she not go and the Chinese Americans (three top people) go instead. I think they would rather she go to Vancouver.

Exactly. Plus it was announced today. She cant get in any trouble.
 

WDW1974

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
More Spirited TEA Musings:

I had a lot of time to think today, most of it not about theme parks but a bit was, and I think the point about Disney largely being a failure for not taking advantage of the 19 million Guests the MK gets to visit its other parks is really a key issues that NEVER gets talked about when these annual number releases become Twit fodder.

How is TDO not an abject failure for neglecting the resort year in and year out?

From a capacity standpoint EPCOT can fit tens of thousands of more Guests into it daily. And because of a smart layout, provided the Promenade is not full of festival kiosks, it can be a comfortable 'more' ... And that doesn't include all the dead areas that have been removed ... let's see we have the entire WoL pavilion, we have the second level of Imagination, we have a chunk of Innoventions, we have the Odyssey complex, we have the World Showplace, we have numerous retail locations in the U.K., in Canada, in France ... that are no longer open.

And the 'answers' for EPCOT right now are a third theater for Soarin and a toon replacement for Maelstrom.

I could go into all the ways The Disney-MGM Studios have been butchered. Or how DAK needs to keep expanding the best park at WDW. But why?

It's all about that Kingdom, bout that Kingdom, no where else (sung to the beat of one of @Lee's pop faves ''All about that bass.'').

WDW has six gates in the swamps along with a mall/lifestyle center and those 30,000 plus rooms. What the TEA numbers make absolutely clear is that looking at the WDW Resort as the standalone resort it believes it is (Universal? Disney knows not of what you speak? Sea World? Of couurse I can see all of the World from the beach at the Poly if I just sit on the patio of one of those 20 bungalow/huts. I Drive?Are you asking me if I have a license?) can only be described as a staggeringly underperforming asset of The Walt Disney Company. Just look at the numbers. You have a mall that needs to be reinvented yet again. And five of the six gates are glaring examples of Disney failing to capture and capitalize the VERY Guests it already has staying on its property and in its own owned and operated resorts.

Sure, the MK is doing great. No argument there. Nothing to debate. Some here might state that it's current often ghetto state is because it's a victim of its own success. As the resort is currently managed, the MK can only be viewed as the vibrant beating heart that it is. You know what the rest of the gates are? Well, you know that staleness that I have talked about ... that going out of business vibe that lingers in the air like the stench of desperation? Those are the rotting limbs that are on the body of the WDW Resort.

So, WDW Co., how far are you going to get when the only thing people are interested in is the myth of Dizzy World and the majestic fiberglass castle?

I guess to a certain extent I am a business person because I've never looked at these numbers quite the way I did this year. And if you work in P&R and the people above retail managers like George Kalogridis, then you should be very concerned. Not by all the great stuff your true only competitor in the market is is coming up with on an annual basis, but by the fact you can't get your own (already bought) customers that most of your resort is worth their time and vacation dollars.

Talk about lost opportunity. Do they even see it as they shutter more parts of more parks and limit offerings and just raise prices to make up for the New Disney Difference?

Long term, that just isn't going to work. And looking out just 3-4 years from now ... folks, let me put it this way: when you find yourself in a well after you ask yourself ''How did I get here?'' you might want to ready yourself for the inevitable SPLAT!
 
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WDW1974

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
I asked Joe Rohde about this at the 2013 D23 Expo and he explicitly said that as a "for-profit" institution the Chinese government is "less willing" to give Pandas. Sounds like it's not happening any time soon.

It's been talked about a bit. But, no, it's not going to happen and I don't get the fixation with them. Of course that's because I've actually lived in China and seen them all over. They tend to be lazy and sleep most of the day or eat bamboo in the back of an exhibit.

If they spent 15 hours a day online, they might even qualify as a Disney fanboi!
 

Nubs70

Well-Known Member
We'll have to see how that plays out..... What with all the FIFA people getting hit with RICO in the indictments...
And if I remember correctly, this indictment is over a sum of $150 MM. The US AG is perusing and seeking to extradite foreign nationals over $150 MM. I wonder the lengths the AG would to if the sum involved was $300, $400 or say even $800 MM?
 
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PhotoDave219

Well-Known Member
OK, so I'm shocked this hasn't become a topic yet.

Apparently after China was done infiltrating the highest levels of the Disney Corporation, they went for some slightly bigger fish...

http://www.cnn.com/2015/06/04/politics/federal-agency-hacked-personnel-management/index.html

I think the Disney/China thing is more about cultural misunderstandings snowballing out of control and neither side willing to give an inch. I think that it will eventually work out, it just may not be the triumph Mr. Iger is hoping for. They need some serious high level negotiations to resolve thats going on there. Maybe a chart would help them?

Anyways.... These days, one would think that if you had data you Absolutely wanted no one to hack or break into, you'd keep it on a small, internal network that is not connected to the outside world. Networking everything together and making every computer accessible is not the best of ideas.
 

PhotoDave219

Well-Known Member
It's been talked about a bit. But, no, it's not going to happen and I don't get the fixation with them. Of course that's because I've actually lived in China and seen them all over. They tend to be lazy and sleep most of the day or eat bamboo in the back of an exhibit.

If they spent 15 hours a day online, they might even qualify as a Disney fanboi!

And if you've ever seen the Panda Cam from the National Zoo, thats EXACTLY what they do.
 

PhotoDave219

Well-Known Member
And if I remember correctly, this indictment is over a sum of $150 MM. The US AG is perusing and seeking to extradite foreign nationals over $150 MM. I wonder the lengths the AG would to if the sum involved was $300, $400 or say even 800 MM?

Excellent question.
 

WDW1974

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
I think it might be the opposite. I imagine a significant chunk of people might start their days at AK or DHS before heading to MK in the afternoon to take advantage of the later operating hours and entertainment. I'd also imagine the same for Epcot, especially for the dinner rush in World Showcase and evening music/IllumiNations.

On an unrelated thing related to news/reporters/corporate ownership, I thought @WDW1974 and a few others might get a kick out of this article that I stumbled upon today (it's from Dec 2014 but still an interesting read). While it has a lot of gossipy stuff related to Meet the Press, there are some interesting nuggets on the corporate maneuvers and lobbying that take place. Keep in mind these are the same people supposedly unbiasedly reporting the "news."

http://www.washingtonian.com/articles/people/how-david-gregory-lost-his-job/

People here (and largely in the real world) have an amazing lack of knowledge and sophistication about how media and journalism work in 21st century America. And when you try and explain it, they all think they know more because they read something somewhere or because of something they believe as a basic tenet of their own lives simply isn't true.

It's worse in the 'net era with sites like Huffington Post, Daily Beast and Buzzfeed, where almost anyone can get anything placed provided they have a connection/agenda/something to offer. Of course, if you the wrong person/company/organization off than that story winds up 'cleansed' from the 'net (go read that Gawker, not a great site either but they nailed a competitor who had it coming, piece on working at the HuffPo that I put up yesterday).

This isn't how any of this is supposed to work. Any of it. But you also shouldn't be arguing about ''asset allocation'' over someone's life at an American Top One Percent hospital either, but we're willing to accept anything as a society ever since the 'evildoers' attacked us on 9/11.
 

WDW1974

Well-Known Member
Original Poster

WDW1974

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
Spirit, I've been following your posts since the LP days. I have found your writing style to be very entertaining and you're able to hold interest by weaving interesting stories about show business. You're a wonderful writer and you know your audience. I haven't followed you all these years for the purpose of discrediting your information. But what I and others (but I'll let them speak for themselves) are concerned about is your continual expression of opinion and wishful thinking as fact.

This probably is the last time I'll respond to you, Phil. Because despite the nice words about my writing I feel I have ample evidence that you've been trolling me (which should get you some stern words from the mods, but when Jimmy Thick is allowed to stay, I sometimes think anyone but Tom Amity is welcome here).

I make it very clear when I post something that's a fact as such. And then I offer my opinions.

The issue some seem to have (all the while claiming they have no real interest in the subject, which makes anyone with half a brain wonder why they are posting on it at all) is that when I post something that I have vetted and know to be fact as fact, that's just not good enough for people. Some people. Largely the crew of folks who no doubt liked this post of yours.

I am not changing my tune on what I am reporting unless the song changes. And, sorry Phil, the band is still playing the same one.

Let me share with you a quote from Isaac Asimov that sums up my concern in your reports about TWDC and China: "I believe in evidence. I believe in observation, measurement, and reasoning, confirmed by independent observers. I'll believe anything, no matter how wild and ridiculous, if there is evidence for it. The wilder and more ridiculous something is, however, the firmer and more solid the evidence will have to be.”

You continually criticize members that question your reports as defamers who want nothing more than to damage your reputation. Frankly, it's not about you Spirit. I just want accurate information that can be verified and vetted from multiple sources to insure its accuracy. Common sense and logic demands that information must be gained and evaluated from multiple sources in order to garner the truth. It's foolish for anyone to accept the word of one politician, one banker, one doctor, one lawyer, one priest, one rabbi or one contractor when trying to ascertain the best information.

Phil, that's all well and good. It's largely a smart way of taking in any information. Do you think I'm an idiot? (Yeah, I know, why ask?) I worked in journalism for many years. When it wasn't a sham. When you couldn't run a major news story with six sources who were all anonymous and you had to fight to use just one. I use that same methodology here. Why do you think I'm right so often? Dumb luck? Guessing? (IF so, someone really should offer to take me to Vegas!)

I think what you, and many others here, want is impossible to get. And instead of accepting it and either moving on to a different topic or a different thread, you insist on a back and forth that I simply don't have the time or desire to continue. You want to hear what Disney says. Why don't you call corporate communications and ask for a statement? They'll either laugh you off the phone or tell you it's all crazy talk and you can't believe anything you read on the Internet (unless it's PR for them by one of their paid shills or BRAND advocates).

And, BTW, why would an official statement from Disney trump something I, or any respected poster here writes? Do you truly not believe that Disney, like all major corps, tends to lie from time to time?

I'm trying to take you at face value, but I'm having a very tough time.

Everytime I offer up more damning evidence that all is not Kosher between Disney and the Chinese government, I'm told that it's not good enough, the sources are biased (every human being is biased that doesn't mean truth can't be told!), it's just all just coincidence or that I'm lying. I am many, many things but a liar isn't one of them. I'm not a Jim Hill. I don't take 10% reality and concoct the other 90% of the story to create a narrative that will entertain some fanbois and put a credential around my neck. I admit that I don't have the full story here. I doubt anyone outside of Bob Iger's closest circle does. But I flat out KNOW that I have more of it than anyone that has written about the subject on a Disney fan forum. Or in the mainstream USA press.

So, if I have 90% of a story, then I'm willing to put that out as fact and offer a very educated opinion on the remainder.

You don't have to like it, but you don't have to troll the subject either. Ask @wdwmagic. He's got literally hundreds of threads here you can enjoy and partake in or you can start one of your own. It might even be nice if he suggested it because I'm sure he hates the typical summer flareups that pop up in the heat.

Your paranoia about how you're hated by various factions seems to be very ego driven. Again, frankly, I don't care. I have no desire to meet you, talk to you or reveal your true identity. Why would I or anyone in TWDC care about some anonymous message board poster? When you go off on these tangents, you appear to be nothing more than a name dropper. It seems you need to reduce your insecurity and boost your image or popularity by dropping names of Disney executives and how much they fear the information you reveal. I assume that gives you some level of self-gratification. I tend to look the other way when you engage in these histrionics.

Best advice I ever got was ''just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they aren't out to get you.'' All I have to do is look at the same people taking shots to realize it isn't paranoia. And guess what? I don't want to meet you, talk to you and I have no intention of revealing my true identity (that bull$hit was an old JT line).
Why would people at TWDC care about me? Perhaps, they know more about me than you do? Perhaps, they aren't happy with what I write or that I attempt to get media coverage on subjects they'd rather no one discuss?

And again, you say you have no agenda and it's all about my ego and then you go and attack me. I'm sorry if I know Disney executives past and present and you don't. Guess what? They aren't nearly as exciting or interesting as some of the people I have met from MAGIC, I have talked to from MAGIC and are now very close friends. About the only high level execs I have met from Disney who I would ever call fascinating would be Michael Eisner and Roy E. Disney ... I guess you can now throw John Lasseter in there as well.

Most of the Disney execs I have met, whether I like them or not, are not exceptional people. They are rather ordinary.

All in all, the entertainment value is worth the time spent in reading. And I hope you understand that multiple sources for these facts are important. After all, if I listened to only one source for my information, I'd still be calling Caitlyn Jenner a man and thinking of her as a mentally ill cross dresser.

And I hope you'll understand if I decide to simply ignore you. You've said your piece about wanting multiple sources and I can't provide that on ANY subject I post on. I can't even provide one source but you do understand why that is. I'm not looking to harm sources (good people, some friends, some people I only know anonymously, etc.) to place names on an Internet forum where they could be greatly harmed for posters like yourself to say ''yeah, I don't buy it. Source XYZ works for Disney and clearly hates the company.''

I don't think you need to repeat the same bs daily. You aren't going to get what you want here, so what's your purpose? Move on to a subject that interests you and enjoy it.

I'm dealing with a gravely ill family member now (as my MAGICal friends are aware) and I can tell you that life is most definitely too short. I really wish you and anyone who has an issue with what I am posting would simply move on. I like healthy discussion and debate, but the anti-China factions aren't engaging in that at all. So, I'm being very nice here and asking you to move on and you can take anyone else along for the ride who believes I'm the story here and not Bob Iger and his Chinese fiasco. What is it that the kids say? Bye Felicia?
 

WDW1974

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
Oh, I won't point out that this announcement could have been likely made when Bob and Tom were in Shanghai, yet instead comes two weeks later in a press release.

AT least the food sounds interesting, beyond the Cheesecake Factory, which is still a decent place for an Americanized meal.
 

WDW1974

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
Not just the wrong forum, the wrong type of site.
Internet message boards are where you come to get the rumors, the leaks, the stuff you aren't supposed to know about.

If someone requires multiple named sources, footnotes and references...gonna be disappointed.

At some point it has to be more about trusting the poster and his/her track record. That's what sites like this offer instead of multiple, verified sources.

Yes, but you and I and folks like @marni1971 and @drew81 and @articos and @whylightbulb and a good dozen others who regularly drop reliable information LIE!!! We make it all up just to entertain ourselves. Me, because my Faux Top One Percent existence is lonely when Angie and I are apart. You, because being a well-rounded, worldly-being in the backwoods of TN can also be lonely, even with DD. The other will have to speak for their own lies.

I think you and I and Martin too (for this crime) should all commit ritual Pixie Dust cleansing in the new #HubBub for our vicious and uncalled for attacks on Phil Holmes for as long I can recall ...

Hey, serious question, do you think the Internet has made people (at least Americans) dumber?
 

WDW1974

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
But it can't be a Disney Theme Park without a Walt plague and statue

There is a dedication plaque in every park. I would hope that Disney and the CCP can come to a mutually satisfying arrangement, although a part of me would very much like to see Bob Iger not get his name on it. Michael Eisner laid all the ground work for the resort and was in a much better negotiating position and is still much more liked in China than The Weatherman (sorry, folks, it's true ... deal with it!) and Jay Rasulo, as much as he is hated by fans (and largely deservingly so) brought the deal home.

The Walt statue, something I've been told by multiple people who worked for him that he would have hated -- and something only created for DL after MDE had a Country Fair event at DL that stuck a Ferris Wheel in the Hub -- really!, doesn't exist at HKDL either. And in Paris, it is shoehorned into DSP. And I can't even recall TDR right now, although I'm sure it has to be there.
 

TP2000

Well-Known Member
The Walt statue, something I've been told by multiple people who worked for him that he would have hated -- and something only created for DL after MDE had a Country Fair event at DL that stuck a Ferris Wheel in the Hub -- really!, doesn't exist at HKDL either. And in Paris, it is shoehorned into DSP. And I can't even recall TDR right now, although I'm sure it has to be there.

The Walt statue in Tokyo is at the end of World Bazaar, on a little terrace overlooking the Central Plaza. And it's very easy to miss.

It wasn't a Country Fair, it was the Disneyland State Fair '87, to be exact. And yeah, they put a Ferris Wheel in the middle of the Hub right in front of the Castle. And it was super tacky, and the Imagineers threw a fit.
State+Fair+87+Hub+FOC.jpg


Even the paying visitors complained. So they moved it after a month.

Except they moved it to the front of the park, right in front of the train station. Seriously.
State+Fair+87+Train+Station.jpg
 

Progress.City

Well-Known Member
This probably is the last time I'll respond to you, Phil. Because despite the nice words about my writing I feel I have ample evidence that you've been trolling me (which should get you some stern words from the mods, but when Jimmy Thick is allowed to stay, I sometimes think anyone but Tom Amity is welcome here).

I make it very clear when I post something that's a fact as such. And then I offer my opinions.

The issue some seem to have (all the while claiming they have no real interest in the subject, which makes anyone with half a brain wonder why they are posting on it at all) is that when I post something that I have vetted and know to be fact as fact, that's just not good enough for people. Some people. Largely the crew of folks who no doubt liked this post of yours.

I am not changing my tune on what I am reporting unless the song changes. And, sorry Phil, the band is still playing the same one.



Phil, that's all well and good. It's largely a smart way of taking in any information. Do you think I'm an idiot? (Yeah, I know, why ask?) I worked in journalism for many years. When it wasn't a sham. When you couldn't run a major news story with six sources who were all anonymous and you had to fight to use just one. I use that same methodology here. Why do you think I'm right so often? Dumb luck? Guessing? (IF so, someone really should offer to take me to Vegas!)

I think what you, and many others here, want is impossible to get. And instead of accepting it and either moving on to a different topic or a different thread, you insist on a back and forth that I simply don't have the time or desire to continue. You want to hear what Disney says. Why don't you call corporate communications and ask for a statement? They'll either laugh you off the phone or tell you it's all crazy talk and you can't believe anything you read on the Internet (unless it's PR for them by one of their paid shills or BRAND advocates).

And, BTW, why would an official statement from Disney trump something I, or any respected poster here writes? Do you truly not believe that Disney, like all major corps, tends to lie from time to time?

I'm trying to take you at face value, but I'm having a very tough time.

Everytime I offer up more damning evidence that all is not Kosher between Disney and the Chinese government, I'm told that it's not good enough, the sources are biased (every human being is biased that doesn't mean truth can't be told!), it's just all just coincidence or that I'm lying. I am many, many things but a liar isn't one of them. I'm not a Jim Hill. I don't take 10% reality and concoct the other 90% of the story to create a narrative that will entertain some fanbois and put a credential around my neck. I admit that I don't have the full story here. I doubt anyone outside of Bob Iger's closest circle does. But I flat out KNOW that I have more of it than anyone that has written about the subject on a Disney fan forum. Or in the mainstream USA press.

So, if I have 90% of a story, then I'm willing to put that out as fact and offer a very educated opinion on the remainder.

You don't have to like it, but you don't have to troll the subject either. Ask @wdwmagic. He's got literally hundreds of threads here you can enjoy and partake in or you can start one of your own. It might even be nice if he suggested it because I'm sure he hates the typical summer flareups that pop up in the heat.



Best advice I ever got was ''just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they aren't out to get you.'' All I have to do is look at the same people taking shots to realize it isn't paranoia. And guess what? I don't want to meet you, talk to you and I have no intention of revealing my true identity (that bull$hit was an old JT line).
Why would people at TWDC care about me? Perhaps, they know more about me than you do? Perhaps, they aren't happy with what I write or that I attempt to get media coverage on subjects they'd rather no one discuss?

And again, you say you have no agenda and it's all about my ego and then you go and attack me. I'm sorry if I know Disney executives past and present and you don't. Guess what? They aren't nearly as exciting or interesting as some of the people I have met from MAGIC, I have talked to from MAGIC and are now very close friends. About the only high level execs I have met from Disney who I would ever call fascinating would be Michael Eisner and Roy E. Disney ... I guess you can now throw John Lasseter in there as well.

Most of the Disney execs I have met, whether I like them or not, are not exceptional people. They are rather ordinary.



And I hope you'll understand if I decide to simply ignore you. You've said your piece about wanting multiple sources and I can't provide that on ANY subject I post on. I can't even provide one source but you do understand why that is. I'm not looking to harm sources (good people, some friends, some people I only know anonymously, etc.) to place names on an Internet forum where they could be greatly harmed for posters like yourself to say ''yeah, I don't buy it. Source XYZ works for Disney and clearly hates the company.''

I don't think you need to repeat the same bs daily. You aren't going to get what you want here, so what's your purpose? Move on to a subject that interests you and enjoy it.

I'm dealing with a gravely ill family member now (as my MAGICal friends are aware) and I can tell you that life is most definitely too short. I really wish you and anyone who has an issue with what I am posting would simply move on. I like healthy discussion and debate, but the anti-China factions aren't engaging in that at all. So, I'm being very nice here and asking you to move on and you can take anyone else along for the ride who believes I'm the story here and not Bob Iger and his Chinese fiasco. What is it that the kids say? Bye Felicia?
Wow, that's a lot of time, patience, and energy to have spent on that one person! I know I wouldn't have found the patience to focus like that, unless it was for something that seriously required it. Cheers!
 
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Mike S

Well-Known Member
The Walt statue in Tokyo is at the end of World Bazaar, on a little terrace overlooking the Central Plaza. And it's very easy to miss.

It wasn't a Country Fair, it was the Disneyland State Fair '87, to be exact. And yeah, they put a Ferris Wheel in the middle of the Hub right in front of the Castle. And it was super tacky, and the Imagineers threw a fit.
State+Fair+87+Hub+FOC.jpg


Even the paying visitors complained. So they moved it after a month.

Except they moved it to the front of the park, right in front of the train station. Seriously.
State+Fair+87+Train+Station.jpg
:facepalm:
 

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