A Spirited Perfect Ten

[WDW1974]

More fun with Numbers, 2014 v 2015 for the overalls. (Thru 5/30)

2014 - 14p/113a/23op
2015 - 27p/73a/50op

It looks like Feast or Famine as compared to last year. Both the Off-Peak & Peak Days have doubled. The Average Days dropped in 2015 v 2014.

The Off Peak nearly doubled in Jan, Feb & April going from 8, 7, 2 in 2014 to 15, 13, 11 this year. Looks like in January you had a "4" days become a "3". Same with February and April.

That explains the off-peak difference. Peak? Resort was SLAMMED for Holidays vs last year, the main difference being Easter & last week.

I need a chart intern.....

Boy, this has really been a working weekend for you. I have enjoyed the posts, but one thing I don't like is that Disney can use the conclusions to justify the price hikes -- which won't do a damn thing about crowding,

 

[WDW1974]

Oh, God. Now I'm thinking I should go on a crash-diet for the summer.

And here I thought I could be smug enough by just meeting you and the Missus for dinner after you'd seen Paint The Night and and a sparkling Disneyland Resort in the SoCal glow of the Diamond Celebration.

I'm putting down my second glass of Scotch for the night and am now trying desperately to remember my sign-in code at the gym.

First, skip the crash diet. They never worked. Well, they did for me for about two months and then ...

Second, Angie isn't the Mrs. and we don't want to give her any ideas right now!!!

So, pick up the glass, sit back down and enjoy!

 

[WDW1974]

So we have problems with people climbing over structures, tromping through beds, and generally having no respect for the boundary between what is supposed to be public space or not... and you think integrating the seating into the structures is a good thing? People couldn't respect it when it was just a BOUNDARY.. and now its a integrated thing? yeah, that's gonna encourage great behavior..

I agree totally with this. For some reason you quoted a post that wasn't mine ... I think it was @doctornick ...

 

[WDW1974]

After catching up on this thread having been out of town (OK, after catching up on @WDW1974's posts), this article was on the front page of Yahoo:

http://www.cinemablend.com/pop/Disney-Parks-May-Making-Some-Major-Changes-72189.html

The opening to one particular paragraph stood out to me:

"Disney is in the enviable position that they need to do something to reduce the crowds at their parks. Disney has become the one stop theme park for all things Marvel and Star Wars, not to mention all their own stuff."

Boy, all those new Marvel and Star Wars attractions have the parks so crowded they have to do something about it! Oh, wait, if they actually DID build some new attractions, perhaps that would help the problem. But, no. The answer is never to increase capacity, it's simply to raise prices. How many posts does @ParentsOf4 have to write before Disney figures this out?

Thanks for reading my posts. Feel free to comment. I like to talk to different people ... sometimes, friend or crazy foe or Disney plant, I feel like it's always the same people. And you don't get threads with 1.2 million clicks by having the same people reading ...

As for your point, well, I'm sure the writer was just extrapolating all the amazing Star Wars and Marvel attractions that will exist at Disney (and UNI in FL) parks by 2034 and how THAT would require them to reduce crowds instead of expanding further.

Seriously, are people like this brain damaged? How do you come to the conclusion that Disney wants less people to visit?

 

[PhotoDave219]

Boy, this has really been a working weekend for you. I have enjoyed the posts, but one thing I don't like is that Disney can use the conclusions to justify the price hikes -- which won't do a damn thing about crowding,

I am not saying they can justify the price hikes. I'm saying the Data Len puts out is reflective or very similar to the Calendar Disney has in their survey. I started this project in an attempt to torpedo it and... dammit. Now the questions are about which parks hold the people and when exactly did DHS stop drawing crowds.

It *IS* price gouging. You pay a premium because there's a premium crowd predicted? What happens if thats happens and the crowd doesnt materialize? You've paid an extra $20 for a nice quiet day. You just got hosed in the checkbook, per person.

This is just one extra obsenity to the guest, one extra hoop to jump through, one extra complication. It would be one thing to raise prices if Studios was breaking ground on TSPL or SWL (hint: They havent) or if Epcot was adding a country or making over Future World or DAK had something new or MK actually had something more than the same old, same old. Frozen Summer Fun, just like last year... but no Skating Rink.

They continue to raise prices to the obscene and continue to offer the guests anything new and thats where I have the problem.

Its like I've said.... "How little can I spend on my kids at Christmas and have them still love me." Honestly, the way I see P&R leadership behave with their number-centric behavior, I've seen that while sitting on the (now-defunct) park benches, with the disinterested mid-40s/early-50s preppy on the crackberry, not even paying attention to their family.

I'm working my way back through one year at a time (2013 right now) and DHS just... its a dumpster fire. Thats my conclusion so far.

 

[WDW1974]

I don't view Pixar as an acquisition per-say. They've always been in the distant family. Would say they're the only true story people left in the entire company.

The bean counters and Finance people in Glendale wish they were that cool.

The Pixar Braintrust all largely have Disney DNA coursing through their blood from John Lasseter on down. It was like a family reunion. You absolutely can't say that for Marvel at all. You can make a smaller case for Lucas based on their relationship going back to the mid-80s (the one Michael Eisner cultivated).

Oh and a correction, you keep talking about 'Glendale' being the finance people and where decisions are made. Nope, it's all next door in Burbank where the company is based and the Studios. Glendale is home to WDI and lots of nondescript warehouses and offices owned by Disney!

 

[PhotoDave219]

I'll say this.... its very interesting that @lentesta's data is similar to that of what Disney put out in their Sample Calendar.

Leads me to put forth a couple thoughts:

1 - His work is pretty on the money when it comes to crowd observations

or

2 - Someone who is advancing these ideas used his Data. Unlikely but these kinds of numbers are a closely guarded secret in TWDC and these being the only third-party data source? Possible but unlikely....

 

[PhotoDave219]

The Pixar Braintrust all largely have Disney DNA coursing through their blood from John Lasseter on down. It was like a family reunion. You absolutely can't say that for Marvel at all. You can make a smaller case for Lucas based on their relationship going back to the mid-80s (the one Michael Eisner cultivated).

Oh and a correction, you keep talking about 'Glendale' being the finance people and where decisions are made. Nope, it's all next door in Burbank where the company is based and the Studios. Glendale is home to WDI and lots of nondescript warehouses and offices owned by Disney!

My bad. Sorry Glendale.

Now Burbank.... we're gonna need to chat....

 

[WDW1974]

What makes one a "Disney Twitter Celebrity?"

"Co-host of the (Hidden...why give a link for free links?) podcast. Disney Twitter Celebrity. Fat guy making poor eating choices on select dates in Disney World. I like warm hugs."

I don't know. I really don't.

I just want to know who talked to this guy and who directed them to him.

 

[AEfx]

And what are you basing your opinion that Eisner's second half was disastrous? Are you talking simply films? Because WDFA put out one commercially successful film after the other in the 90s (the entire decade). I guess you are writing off every film after Lion King, despite the billions they brought in. And while live action certainly wasn't as successful, they put out hits as well. They also created a homegrown franchise with PotC, much more difficult that buying one (Star Wars for instance).

I was very clear and detailed in discussing the film business.

I'm sorry, your facts are wrong. Go look at a list of them. I listed many, and acknowledged the few successes among constant failures.

Eisner drove the live action film business into the ground.

Are you talking theme parks and resorts? Because it was one the times of largest growth in history and while there were parks like DCA and DSP that clearly weren't up to past standards, there also were parks like DAK and TDS that were amazing and inspiring. At existing parks, you had all sorts of new product from Indy at DL in 1995 to Everest at DAK in 2006 (an Eisner project, despite opening months after he left).

Amazing and inspiring, AK may be (if you just want a pretty place to walk around) but it was a failure at it's goal of bringing new folks to Orlando. Disney didn't build it with the expectation that it would just maintain status quo. I don't need to tell you this - you know this. And Everest? Are we really going to give him a gold star on that one?

Yes. But you don't want to give him the credit for all the financial and creative successes that came before. I wish Touchstone still made films. But that's on the current CEO. The one who has been in charge for a decade.

I really think you need to go back, because Touchstone did not die under Iger. It's fate was sealed under Eisner, when PotC (the sole hit live action franchise they have) was released as a WDP well before Iger took over. It was a business decision so WDP would get it on its sheets instead of Touchstones.

I'm sorry, '74, but the stuff you are saying just isn't backed up by facts.

Yes, let's look over that Sixth Sense was huge and a truly excellent film because everything the man made after was average to unwatchable. Or that it put out films like Joy Luck Club, Quiz Show, Nixon and, even, Evita. It's very easy to go to Wikipedia and pull up some of the crap it put out if you're looking to push a viewpoint. And most of the films you brought up ... well, they weren't losing money like Iger misfires from that Nick Cage SA 'thing' to John Carter to, even a film that I quite enjoyed in Lone Ranger. Nope, there were no $250-million dollar writedowns from the Hollywood Pics banner.

I didn't over look it - I mentioned it. It was the only significant hit out of 50ish films. That's not a successful studio. And that one big hit was at the very end of its life. Hollywood Pictures was shuttered for the same reason Touchstone was - because WDP had a sucky track record and was basically making glorified direct-to-video films and they wanted what hits they could possibly get under that banner.

Really? See, that's not how history will recall things. It certainly isn't the view of people in the business that don't have personal animus for the guy (as you sure seem to ... which is fine ... that was the fanboi de facto opinion largely 10-15 years ago). You pick and choose.

Seriously? I have personal animus for Eisner?

I'm sorry 74 - how can you say that with a straight face as someone who goes after Iger constantly?

That pot is so black I can see my reflection in it.

Like any CEO, I don't have personal feelings about it - but when folks are constantly making Iger out to be the devil and making it sound like everything was perfect until he took over and ruined it, it's so Washington it's not even funny.

Pocahontas, Toy Story, Hunchback of Notre Dame, Hercules, Mulan, A Bug's Life, Tarzan and Toy Story 2 were all released by Disney and Pixar ... by Eisner's Disney from 1995-1999. All were financial successes and largely critical successes. They also drove synergy in CP and in theme parks. If you want to say 2000-2005 wasn't as kind, especially on the WDFA side, then you'll get no disagreement from me. But there were still quality films, like Fantasia 2000 and Atlantis (which I didn't see for the first time until two years ago) and Emperor's New Groove (very, very underrated). That leaves out the continued mega-hits from Pixar. Hey, before you attack me for giving Eisner credit for those, you want to give Iger credit for Marvel films that Disney had zero input on and then films in which they basically stayed in the background.

I can give credit to Iger for bringing those franchises in. He's the one that made the deals happen.

Take the Pixar distribution deal out of that (you know, the "paintings they bought from someone else and resold"), and it's a lot different.

And what did Iger do, after Eisner drove Pixar so far they were ready to jump ship? He bought them. Something Eisner couldn't accomplish. If he had, Disney would have not been in such financial straits - but he settled for buying the paintings and getting what they could out of it.

Breck. And Eisner (along with Wells and Roy Edward Disney and Jeff Katzenberg etc...) weren't lucky. They were good, great even. I don't know what narrative you are trying to write beyond the fact that you don't really like or care about Iger, but golly gee, he is the second coming of Jesus (and not my MIA lawn man ... seriously, Jesus has disappeared and the lawn hasn't been mowed in months. I wonder if he was deported!) and if not for him, Michael Eisner would have taken Disney to hell.

I'm really just sitting her stunned at this point.

You make sure you get some knock on him being the devil once a day, and when I compare him to his predecessor who ran the company so into the ground there were buyout attempts, and I'm making him Jesus.

I'm sorry, I'm challenging your narrative that he is the worst thing ever for the Walt Disney Company, when the only folks you find who agree with you are on park sites like this - to the rest of the world, he very much has saved the company.

Fact: Eisner never looked into selling off all or part of P&R.
Fact: Iger did.

If you took over a drowning company, you explore all options. That wouldn't even be a consideration today, or did we forget how the parks are insanely profitable now?

Fact: Eisner didn't leave the company in terrible financial straits or because they weren't making money.
Fact: Eisner left because Wall Street didn't feel like he/Disney was making ENOUGH money.

And Eisner had so alienated pretty much everyone because he was toxic to work with.

The worst thing people can say about working with Iger is that he's boring.

You really are rewriting history to fit the Iger is the devil narrative.

And since you want to play the history game ...

Fact: Eisner saved Disney from being broken up and sold off in pieces.
Fact: Iger didn't have to worry about that because of the job his old boss did.

Wait, I thought that was Iger? You just said.

The photo thing again? Look, you either get what that means or you don't. But it means a great deal as Disney attempts to enter China. I've explained it about 5,000 times here this year and I'm not doing it again just because you trolled for a response.

Oh, I get what happened. Me and a lot of other folks who explained why not going in and being an obnoxious American and insisting on being the center of attention in a country that would have responded very poorly to that. I know this thread is long, but people aren't stupid...it seems you keep banking on folks not remembering what we discussed a few weeks ago.

It sure seems like you love Iger ... but you are right, Iger doesn't have delusions he is a creative at all. He has other delusions of grandeur, except when he's in China and is seen as an impotent empty American suit.

You don't understand Chinese culture whatsoever. I'm sorry, you just don't if that's what you think.

No, that's largely a crock of BS. I have known Michael and I like him personally. I loved the job he did at Disney for a good 15 years. But he made some huge mistakes later in his tenure ... he had health issues, he lost his No. 2, he made an awful decision to bring Mike Ovitz in, he got way too conservative in the parks being built ... but in no way does the bad outshine the good.

Well there we go. You "have known him" and "like him personally".

If Iger returned your calls, would you be all over him like a cheap suit?

But I don't intend to spend days and pages on a back and forth about the wonder that is The Weatherman. This is the kind of discussion that Disney Social Media loves because it means we aren't talking about new pricing models for theme park ticketing or Disney's problems in China. I get that those are the important issues of the day. Playing Eisner vs. Iger isn't productive. I just felt some things needed to be clarified or corrected.

Nice save there explaining why if I am such an idiot you are spending all this time picking apart what I have said.

I wish we could beam the last quote here to the you a month or so back. Because since we are being so honest here, I'll tell you - I honestly have questioned if you really had gone off the rails because the majority of what you have posted for months has been "Iger Iger Iger...IGER!" and much of it has been petty and/or nonsensical.

If you want to move past the topic, great - my participation in this current discussion has been because at some point someone had to point out that he is not the devil incarnate. It may be an unpopular opinion at a Disney Park board where folks are invested in keeping the Evil Iger narrative so they have a figure to blame, but it's just like blaming a president for having to make the hard choices to clean up what the last guy did - it's political posturing, nothing more.

 

[WDW1974]

I'll say this.... its very interesting that @lentesta's data is similar to that of what Disney put out in their Sample Calendar.

Leads me to put forth a couple thoughts:

1 - His work is pretty on the money when it comes to crowd observations

or

2 - Someone who is advancing these ideas used his Data. Unlikely but these kinds of numbers are a closely guarded secret in TWDC and these being the only third-party data source? Possible but unlikely....

I don't know what the deal is at all. I know that many people in the fan community swear by his numbers. I have issues with him because he associates himself and his business with someone with no ethics whatsoever who regularly has been known to take freebies from Disney.

I do wonder how the data is put together and made meaningful, but not being a numbers guy I sorta step back and assume Len isn't putting a fast one by anyone and that it is reality or close to it.

I don't know if Disney is 'borrowing' Len's research although I put nothing past them.

But I do know that it helps no one at all if Disney raises its prices yet again and uses this research to help justify it.

 

[PhotoDave219]

But I do know that it helps no one at all if Disney raises its prices yet again and uses this research to help justify it.

My goal was to try and torpedo it. Frankly that argument with that Katie girl helped fuel it. Unfortunately, that whole objective and ethical journalist streak I have sometimes conflicts with my personal beliefs.

I don't think what Disney is proposing is right by any stretch of the imagination.

 

[flynnibus]

I agree totally with this. For some reason you quoted a post that wasn't mine ... I think it was @doctornick ...

Fixed... Some fubar moment

 

[stevehousse]

@AEfx ramble much...you have way to much time on your hands if you seriously are quoting nearly 15 messages in one post lol...just a hint...most people wont take the time of day to read all of that anyway so your point wont get put across. I stopped reading after the 4th or 5th quote...Not everyone is going to agree on everything, but there is no reason to try and be right all the time, which is what i find you always try to do on this thread and others, its getting old, especially when you are wrong and just cant accept it.

 

[ItlngrlBella]

@AEfx ramble much...you have way to much time on your hands if you seriously are quoting nearly 15 messages in one post lol...just a hint...most people wont take the time of day to read all of that anyway so your point wont get put across. I stopped reading after the 4th or 5th quote...Not everyone is going to agree on everything, but there is no reason to try and be right all the time, which is what i find you always try to do on this thread and others, its getting old, especially when you are wrong and just cant accept it.

I just read through everything and just got caught up. My eyes are burning.

All I have to say to @stevehousse is...

AMEN TO THAT!

On behalf of the sane majority here - we thank you. Good sir, you have won the internet today!

 

[Cesar R M]

Would using a smaller form factor vehicle help with the capacity. The Maelstrom boats were quite massive outside of the seating area. If they chose a smaller design, with similar amount of seating, would that not allow more boats on the attraction, and in turn increase the capacity?

you mean, non detailed flumes just to maintain 100% capacity?
I hope they dont shot themselves in the foot and cause a similar issue to Pirate's watering thing..

 

[Cesar R M]

It will probably sound unrelated, but have a look at this flume ride. Chiapas opened last year and pay attention to the track switches. Intamin also manufactured this one, so I wonder if WDI spent the time and money, could they update the track switches so they move as fast on Maelstrom as those? The first track switch is at 1:15.

as a Mexican, I have no idea what is going on in that video lol.
its a mixture of olmec, aztec ride with the canyons and rapids of the state of Chiapas.

but.. then I seen the "disco" guy with the lasers.. and I'm conflicted lol.

the ride itself.. looks perfect for getting soaked and a bit of thrill.

 

[Cesar R M]

Visionaries have never been hired by corporate America. Not now, and not in Walt's day. Visionaries are entrepreneurs by necessity. Elon Musk is a modern visionary.

I wonder if you consider Sir Richard Branson a visionary or an opportunist/adventurer.

 

[marni1971]

According to this site:
https://crooksinwdw.wordpress.com/2013/12/14/theoreticaloperational-hourly-ride-capacity-at-wdw/

Splash under 1100

Test Track under 1100

They have Maelstrom at 900. I believe that they will work to get it up to near Splash and Test Track.

Those numbers are too low. TT is 16-1800 and Splash is just over 2200.

Still waiting to hear where you heard the switches and layout were being changed? Can you tell us please?

 

[AEfx]

@AEfx ramble much...you have way to much time on your hands if you seriously are quoting nearly 15 messages in one post lol...

I'm not sure who you are, sorry, so I can't offer my personal opinions on you in turn.

I quoted one single message, in which the person I replied to did exactly what you said - went and pulled every posting I have made in the past day or so and replied to them.

I simply responded to the points.

If you don't care for my postings, there is a great "ignore" feature - use it.