A Spirited Perfect Ten

[LuvtheGoof]

So despite the cost, none of the exalted Disney properties have been awarded the AAA Five Diamond Ratings. But the Ritz-Carlton Orlando Grande Lakes has. I just found a room there for a Saturday night in June for $195.00, but the usual rates for that same night are about $300 and a suite can be had for about $600 per night.

So, what does that say for the prices at the Polynesian and the Grand Floridian? My recollection of those properties' rack rates the last time I checked was substantially more. Do you agree?

It tells me that if I choose to stay on-site at the Poly or GF, I am paying for the monorail and the view of the Magic Kingdom park but I am not getting the very best of luxury accommodations. Isn't that what you were really talking about? Whether Disney's flagship hotels are incomparable to off site offerings? Disney's great, but there's better to be had.

Yes, I will agree that the rack rates for those resorts is higher. So what? Can you ride a monorail from the Ritz-Carlton to MK? Can you walk to the MK from there? Can you see animals outside your balcony at the Ritz? Can you walk to EPCOT or HS? Price isn't just about ratings, it's also about location, and lots of other intangibles, such as views. Yes, you are getting 4 diamond luxury accommodation at every resort I listed above according to an independent agency. They couldn't care less if you are staying at the GF or the Ritz. And of course, I would never pay the rates that Disney charges either.

I have no desire to ever stay at an off-site hotel (even if we weren't DVC members), for many reasons. I don't ever want to drive while I am there, so no rental car - EVER. I don't want to worry about the bus schedule for that off-site resort which may or may not fit in with our plans. We don't go to the parks from rope drop to close. We go when we feel like it, and Disney transportation does that for us. Some days we go to a park for several hours, some days for only an hour or two, depending on our mood that day.

 

[flynnibus]

Check boxes are there to keep the ratings consistent and objective from one property to the next. You obviously have a bias that AAA doesn't.

No, I understand the difference between a system that counts things vs grading things.

But hey, kept thinking that $700/night experience is all that it can be and AAA is there backing that up for you.

 

[LuvtheGoof]

So despite the cost, none of the exalted Disney properties have been awarded the AAA Five Diamond Ratings

And when did anyone call any property "exalted"????? Disney properties earn a 4 diamond rating. Nothing more, nothing less.

 

[flynnibus]

Just because a resort is going through construction, does not equate to lesser service.

puhahaha... ok, obviously there is no need to reply on this subject anymore if you honestly believe what you just typed.

 

[LuvtheGoof]

No, I understand the difference between a system that counts things vs grading things.

But hey, kept thinking that $700/night experience is all that it can be and AAA is there backing that up for you.

Really? Have you ever paid $700/night? I certainly haven't, and wouldn't no matter what the rating of a property is anywhere in the world.

 

[LuvtheGoof]

puhahaha... ok, obviously there is no need to reply on this subject anymore if you honestly believe what you just typed.

Ah, so any property - Disney or otherwise - that is doing major refurbishments should automatically lose their ratings from AAA. Gotcha.

 

[GLaDOS]

Man I almost miss the Marvel discussions.


...


No wait I was kidding!

 

[hopemax]

Excellent post and I agree with most of it, but I'd say there are far more groups:

1.) One and dones (right of passage/saved up for six years types);
2.) First-timers (may wind up as part of No. 1 or not);
3.) Relatively newbies (people who have been visiting largely since Y2K or slightly before ... they don't know a WDW that's all that different from this one);
4.) Locals/APers (visit regularly and may or may not have issues with the way the parks look or are run);
5.) Lifestylers/BRAND advocates (people who moved to O-Town to leech off the Mouse, many who have serious mental health issues, many who are just looking for freebies that seem available to anyone with a social media footprint);
6.) DVCers ( again, could be older Guests or people who visited for the first time in 2007 and bought right in. Some are happy with the place, others wonder how this WDW isn't a Bizarro version of the WDW they fell in love with);
7.) Internationals (who can fit into -- and do -- almost every category above);
8.) Long-timers/chronics (people like myself who have been coming since there wasn't a traffic light on property, since there was only one park in a forest of green that seemed to go on forever ... people who were awed by the sheer audacity of building EPCOT Center in the swamps in the early 80s when O-Town was much more a town than a city, let alone an urban sprawl zone. People who are incredibly unhappy with the way the resort has been run dating back to the end of the last century. People who, frankly, know better and realize that between rubes, Social Media whores and Disney PR, it will be tough to ever even approach the standards and quality that existed for WDW's first quarter century).

And the thing is, those groups all have sub-groups too. From CPers who move to the area to folks who love UNI and SW to folks who would never set foot in any of them to retirees etc.)

It's not simple. But I can tell you which group management has the most disdain for, and that speaks incredibly poorly of them not simply as custodians of the Disney Legacy, but also as simple business people.

Where are the "came as a kid/now, I'm the parent?" They aren't first timers, they aren't one and done's but they don't fit into any of the frequent categories, and while they may have brand loyalty, it's for the brand as it was when they were kids, not necessarily what the brand is today. They may know little about what happened with Disney between their ages of 15 and 35, but they remember what they saw from 5-15.

And if you are 35 now, your 5-15 year old self lived through Eisner's arrival kicking off with DL's 30th, EO, Star Tours, Splash, Disney Decade stuff, finishing up with Tower of Terror and Indiana Jones out at DL. Then you turn out the light for 20 years, when you turn it back on, where do you expect Disney to be? Someone mentioned coming off Imagination restraining themselves from the string of obscenities, because they had missed how much that ride had been changed. It's why I ruffle when people say that people who come infrequently don't see the changes. Coming infrequently can lead to big culture shocks, because it's not just, "a little thing here, a little thing there," it's like 20 things all at once.

I kind of suspect that this group is a primary driver for current attendance growth, a wave of eggs that has been incubating for 20 years, now starting to hatch. I would guess there was high satisfaction among those impressionable visitors and they've just been waiting for the day to return. It's not anything Disney has done recently, it's just the age demo is in their favor right now, and the day has come. The wave is far from over, so I would expect to see continued "record breaking attendance", but think it isn't wise to infer that because people came, that they must be happy with how Disney is now. Satisfaction of this returning bunch will show up in future bookings, and future "eggs." I think Disney's been playing with fire, but we will see.

 

[Darth Sidious]

So Comcast just hired Mike Cavanagh to be their CFO. In my opinion he is a good executive, having been the front runner to succeed the best banking CEO in the world Jamie Dimon. I would imagine this says Comcast will look to acquire some more companies, perhaps the TWC deal that fell through could be his focus but I doubt it.

Edit: Comcast is paying him just south of $30mm... That's CEO type money.

 

[GoofGoof]

So despite the cost, none of the exalted Disney properties have been awarded the AAA Five Diamond Ratings. But the Ritz-Carlton Orlando Grande Lakes has. I just found a room there for a Saturday night in June for $195.00, but the usual rates for that same night are about $300 and a suite can be had for about $600 per night.

So, what does that say for the prices at the Polynesian and the Grand Floridian? My recollection of those properties' rack rates the last time I checked was substantially more. Do you agree?

It tells me that if I choose to stay on-site at the Poly or GF, I am paying for the monorail and the view of the Magic Kingdom park but I am not getting the very best of luxury accommodations. Isn't that what you were really talking about? Whether Disney's flagship hotels are incomparable to off site offerings? Disney's great, but there's better to be had.

Agreed. Of course you are paying for the location. Just like in any beach town, a beachfront resort with ocean views with average sized rooms and maybe a small pool will cost more than a 5 star resort with a spa, luxury rooms and all kinds of amenities that's a mile from the beach. Each is offering something completely different to a different group of guests. If you happen to be in the Orlando area for work and just needed a room but couldn't visit the parks you wouldn't book the Poly or CR or GF you would book a Ritz Carlton or Four Seasons that's not in close proximity to Disney parks for the same amount of money. To put it another way if they picked up the CR (minus the monorail) and dropped it somewhere a few miles from WDW, the prices would probably be around $100 to $150 a night on average. If they wanted to keep charging $400+ a night they would need to offer Ritz Carlton level services.

In summary, the Disney deluxe resorts are deluxe compared to the Disney moderate resorts. You can't really compare them to a deluxe hotel somewhere else IMHO.

 

[flynnibus]

To put it another way if they picked up the CR (minus the monorail) and dropped it somewhere a few miles from WDW, the prices would probably be around $100 to $150 a night on average. If they wanted to keep charging $400+ a night they would need to offer Ritz Carlton level services.

So how do you feel for those CR guests who paid full price and then had that main differentiator (monorail) not available to them? Funny how Disney didn't change their rates or services when they reduced the availability of that main differentiator huh?

Disney promotes the deluxes as that.. their DELUXE product. Sure they charge more for location, but they generally offer the same services across the different deluxe properties.

 

[PhotoDave219]

Man I almost miss the Marvel discussions.


...


No wait I was kidding!

Ta know, that Black Widow is pretty hot.

 

[GoofGoof]

So how do you feel for those CR guests who paid full price and then had that main differentiator (monorail) not available to them? Funny how Disney didn't change their rates or services when they reduced the availability of that main differentiator huh?

Disney promotes the deluxes as that.. their DELUXE product. Sure they charge more for location, but they generally offer the same services across the different deluxe properties.

You can still walk to MK. Can't do that from the Ritz Carlton. Even without the monorail you would still be paying for location. Maybe not quite as much. Maybe just Wilderness Lodge rates.

 

[lazyboy97o]

You can still walk to MK. Can't do that from the Ritz Carlton. Even without the monorail you would still be paying for location. Maybe not quite as much. Maybe just Wilderness Lodge rates.

How many rooms along Harbor Blvd go for comparable rates? Or even have a comparable location premium?

 

[ParentsOf4]

Value means something different to everyone, and so you don't see the value, but many of us do, and that's fine. Being a DVC member, I never actually pay for a room anymore, and we only stay in deluxe. We don't use the resort just to sleep in, as you do. We relax, hit the pool, read on the balcony with an excellent glass of wine, hit the lounge later in the afternoon, and usually have a nice sit-down for dinner. We never commando the parks from opening until closing.

Oh, and just because you don't think they deserve it, Disney is judged by an outside agency every year for every hotel and restaurant. So I guess Disney must have paid off AAA to get the diamond ratings that their hotels get? Here is the 4 diamond listing for Disney:

Disney’s Animal Kingdom Villas - Jambo House (2011)
Disney’s Animal Kingdom Villas - Kidani Village (2011)
Disney's Beach Club Resort (2003)
Disney’s BoardWalk Inn (2009)
Disney’s Contemporary Resort (2007)
Disney's Grand Floridian Resort & Spa (1989)
Disney’s Polynesian Village Resort (2007)
Disney’s Wilderness Lodge (2013)
Disney's Yacht Club Resort (1991)

AAA is an outside agency that evaluates them on their merits, NOT what YOU think it's worth.

For fun, I looked at other area AAA 4 diamond resorts for the week of July 12:

• Reunion Resort A Wyndham Grand Resort - $167/night
• Gaylord Palms Resort - $150/night
• Hyatt Regency Grand Cypress - $167/night
• Wyndham Grand Orlando Resort Bonnet Creek - $149/night
• Waldorf Astoria Orlando - $208/night

Exactly how much does WDW's 4-diamond resorts cost with this summer's 30% discount?

• Disney's Animal Kingdom Lodge - $264/night
• Disney's Boardwalk Inn - $275/night
• Disney's Beach Club - $325/night
• Disney's Contemporary Resort - $333/night
• Disney's Grand Floridian - $396/night

What I found particularly interesting is that Disney's Moderate Resorts cost more than all except the Waldorf Astoria, and that was only including this summer's discount. Without it, Disney's Moderate Resorts cost more than the Waldorf Astoria.

I'm a DVC member too but find it difficult to use "Disney Resort" and "value" in the same sentence.

Oh, and being a DVC member, it would be inaccurate to write "I never actually pay for a room anymore, and we only stay in deluxe" unless Disney gave me my DVC points for free and paid my Maintenance Fees every year.

If I really want to:

relax, hit the pool, read on the balcony with an excellent glass of wine, hit the lounge later in the afternoon, and usually have a nice sit-down for dinner. We never commando the parks from opening until closing.​

Then I am better off staying at a Deluxe Resort at Universal. After having experienced unlimited Express Pass all day long for every day of my vacation, I'll never look at a WDW theme park the same way.

 

[Darth Sidious]

For fun, I looked at other area AAA 4 diamond resorts for the week of July 12:

• Reunion Resort A Wyndham Grand Resort - $167/night
• Gaylord Palms Resort - $150/night
• Hyatt Regency Grand Cypress - $167/night
• Wyndham Grand Orlando Resort Bonnet Creek - $149/night
• Waldorf Astoria Orlando - $208/night

Exactly how much does WDW's 4-diamond resorts cost with this summer's 30% discount?

• Disney's Animal Kingdom Lodge - $264/night
• Disney's Boardwalk Inn - $275/night
• Disney's Beach Club - $325/night
• Disney's Contemporary Resort - $333/night
• Disney's Grand Floridian - $396/night

What I found particularly interesting is that Disney's Moderate Resorts cost more than all except the Waldorf Astoria, and that was only including this summer's discount. Without it, Disney's Moderate Resorts cost more than the Waldorf Astoria.

I'm a DVC member too but find it difficult to use "Disney Resort" and "value" in the same sentence.

Oh, and being a DVC member, it would be inaccurate to write "I never actually pay for a room anymore, and we only stay in deluxe" unless Disney gave me my DVC points for free and paid my Maintenance Fees every year.

If I really want to:

relax, hit the pool, read on the balcony with an excellent glass of wine, hit the lounge later in the afternoon, and usually have a nice sit-down for dinner. We never commando the parks from opening until closing.​

Then I am better off staying at a Deluxe Resort at Universal. After having experienced unlimited Express Pass all day long for every day of my vacation, I'll never look at a WDW theme park the same way.

Right now Universal resorts are amazingly fair, if not a bargain for the quality you will get and the front of the line pass. I stayed three nights a few months back at the Royal Pacific and enjoyed it thoroughly.

 

[PhotoDave219]

You can still walk to MK. Can't do that from the Ritz Carlton. Even without the monorail you would still be paying for location. Maybe not quite as much. Maybe just Wilderness Lodge rates.

I always have viewed the contemporary that way. Walking distance to MK. No boats, no rail, no buses. I can drive everywhere else.

 

[Goofyernmost]

So despite the cost, none of the exalted Disney properties have been awarded the AAA Five Diamond Ratings. But the Ritz-Carlton Orlando Grande Lakes has. I just found a room there for a Saturday night in June for $195.00, but the usual rates for that same night are about $300 and a suite can be had for about $600 per night.

So, what does that say for the prices at the Polynesian and the Grand Floridian? My recollection of those properties' rack rates the last time I checked was substantially more. Do you agree?

It tells me that if I choose to stay on-site at the Poly or GF, I am paying for the monorail and the view of the Magic Kingdom park but I am not getting the very best of luxury accommodations. Isn't that what you were really talking about? Whether Disney's flagship hotels are incomparable to off site offerings? Disney's great, but there's better to be had.

Sure, but do any of them have a 5 foot mouse running up and down the hallways at night? That's got to be worth something!

 

[Darth Sidious]

I always have viewed the contemporary that way. Walking distance to MK. No boats, no rail, no buses. I can drive everywhere else.

Just to add for those wondering I think you can add $50 for parking and a rental car for each day. Even with those added your resort cost is still far cheaper.

 

[PhotoDave219]

Just to add for those wondering I think you can add $50 for parking and a rental car for each day. Even with those added your resort cost is still far cheaper.

No what I mean is that if I ever go back and ever want to stay at a Deluxe? Its going to be the contemporary. Garden wing.

All for the convince of not dealing with what a PITA it is to get to magic kingdom anymore. No waiting for buses. No dealing with broken monorails. No boats that are 101 due to lightning.

Just a nice stroll. And then drive everywhere else I want.

Because I'm tired of being on Disney's schedule. "We're paid by the hour, not the trip" seems to be the unofficial motto of WDW transportation.