A Spirited Perfect Ten

[Quinnmac000]

LOL, and let's not forget - Disney has always had a relationship with Nintendo, and when Nintendo finally decided to do an about-face and team up with a theme park, I think it's very telling that they went with Universal. Of course, since this came out of the blue we don't yet know if Disney even wanted them, or if talks even happened - but given how it was only a number of years ago WDW was testing Nintendo technology in the parks (a pre-cursor to MM+), as well as their extremely similar audience base...I could see if it was a choice why Nintendo would go with Universal, for the same exact reasons that JK Rowling did.

One thing I'm excited about is that they will assuredly have another Nintendo World there. I only hope it's part of CityWalk and not inside the park - but in either case, it's an exciting possibility.

They went on JoTLM and Stitch's Great Escape and that gave them their answer

 

[AEfx]

I'm helping three UK families of first time visitors from work to plan their trips.

Two want to "go to Disney" but won't sacrifice Universal or SeaWorld for it.

The third doesn't care for Disney but can't wait for Universal.

Naturally I'm trying to squeeze the first two into a ten day whirlwind trip. And trying to persuade the third to at least try WDW.

Now see, that's more along the lines of what I have seen, as well. Like you, not a week goes by that someone doesn't contact me asking for advice or help on an Orlando vacation.

Universal is also pulling people that wouldn't go to Orlando at all. While Orlando is the theme park capital, as strange as it sounds to us, many people go to Florida on vacation period - they think it's weird that we travel all the way to a state with such coastal beauty that we spend an entire week landlocked in a swamp, LOL. To them it's like going to the Louvre just to eat at their McDonalds.

And those people are spending a day or three at Universal because of the exciting offerings - and then going on to the coast or down to Miami and having a more traditional Florida vacation experience. Spending a couple of days at Disney is just so expensive at this point a lot of folks look at the price they think "nah, maybe next time we'll spend a whole week there" because of the economies of scale involved in the pricing structure. But Universal seems a lot more "doable" and doesn't make it sound like on-site is the only way to experience it to nearly the extent that Disney does.

To be honest, I think one of the things Disney does that loses expanding it's audience is it's website itself. I cannot tell you the amount of people I know who just thought one day about going, saw a commercial or something else, went to the website, priced a vacation (people who elsewhere normally pick "moderate" accommodations or who may occasionally splurge on more deluxe places) who price WDW, get the rack rate displayed, and close the website out of sticker shock. Because it's so focused on upselling, it makes you feel like the only way for a family of 4 or 5 to spend a week at WDW is going to top $5,000.

 

[UpAllNight]

I'm helping three UK families of first time visitors from work to plan their trips.

Two want to "go to Disney" but won't sacrifice Universal or SeaWorld for it.

The third doesn't care for Disney but can't wait for Universal.

Naturally I'm trying to squeeze the first two into a ten day whirlwind trip. And trying to persuade the third to at least try WDW.

Hardly scientific I know but interesting non the less. Especially since all have children.

Going with 3 newbies from the UK and all they talk about is Disney. I can guarantee that given our age range (21-27) they will enjoy Universal more. Disneyworld is suffering because of such intense brand loyalty that is embedded into every childhood.

 

[AEfx]

Promoting the Wii U at Downtown Disney but then going with Universal for a real theme park deal. Let's not forget Epic Mickey being a Wii exclusive. Disney always did seem to have some kind of relationship with Nintendo so what changed? My guess is the same as yours which is that it could be the same reason why Rowling went with Uni. Could also be that Nintendo execs saw how much Uni put into Harry Potter and simply thought "these are the guys to trust our characters with."

I'll be curious if we learn more details about the deal over time. It may be that Disney wasn't interested - they do have a lot on their plate supposedly for a company who isn't committing to breaking ground on anything. But yes, I do have an inkling of a feeling that it was a choice Nintendo made, and a very surprising one for anyone who follows corporate Nintendo. It's like Nintendo has suddenly become Genesis-era Sega.

 

[Quinnmac000]

I'll be curious if we learn more details about the deal over time. It may be that Disney wasn't interested - they do have a lot on their plate supposedly for a company who isn't committing to breaking ground on anything. But yes, I do have an inkling of a feeling that it was a choice Nintendo made, and a very surprising one for anyone who follows corporate Nintendo. It's like Nintendo has suddenly become Genesis-era Sega.

But then again if you look at theme park history, even Avatar rights were offered to Universal before Disney. Add in the fact that OLC in Japan didn't want Nintendo in their parks (they also don't want Marvel) that would of been a dealbreaker for Nintendo as they are majorly proud of their Japanese Heritage.

 

[Mike S]

But then again if you look at theme park history, even Avatar rights were offered to Universal before Disney. Add in the fact that OLC in Japan didn't want Nintendo in their parks (they also don't want Marvel) that would of been a dealbreaker for Nintendo as they are majorly proud of their Japanese Heritage.

When did that happen?

 

[mahnamahna101]

Yeah, I don't think Kong is the tipping point. The tipping point was Potter 2.0. Not only in terms of the "numbers side", but also the final blow to anyone being able to claim that WDW offered the superior theme park ride experience. Say what you will about it, but just the Hogwarts Express alone is more exciting for theme park development than any other single attraction WDW has added this century.

When I look at that graph, I see two things - one, wow, there is some empirical evidence of the failure of AK, and two, WDW has missed decades of opportunity for real growth.

It started with Potter 2.0

And then it'll continue with (based on insider rumors)
2015 - JW Raptor show, Media Center, Nascar Cafe replacement, E.T. gets an upgrade
2016 - Kong, new Hulk, IOA nighttime show, Sapphire Falls, CityWalk revamp Phase 2, Fallon D-ticket
2017 - F&F replaces San Francisco, Mummy upgrades, revamped Spider-Man, revamped Storm Force, WonderSea
2018 - Avengers E-ticket, Nintendo Land opens

Not to mention even more additions for later down the road!
Toon Lagoon replacement
more hotels
Lost Continent revamp/replacement
Potter 3.0
Seuss expansion
Jurassic Park revamp/addition
Fear Factor replacement
T2 revamp
Shrek replacement
eventual 3rd gate

By the 50th, USF and IOA should surpass Epcot, DCA, DHS and AK in attendance.

 

[Quinnmac000]

When did that happen?

Back in 2010, Nintendo had meetings with Oriental Land Company the largest concession they would give was a store in the mall

http://iwataasks.nintendo.com/interviews/#/3ds/louvre-guide/0/0

 

[cdd89]

I guess what remains to be seen is whether Disney's hold on the lucrative luxury market remains unchallenged. They're currently the only place with signature restaurants within the parks themselves. I think if Universal starts successfully chipping into that market (and they tried before), Iger would have cause to worry.

 

[PhotoDave219]

LOL, and let's not forget - Disney has always had a relationship with Nintendo, and when Nintendo finally decided to do an about-face and team up with a theme park, I think it's very telling that they went with Universal. Of course, since this came out of the blue we don't yet know if Disney even wanted them, or if talks even happened - but given how it was only a number of years ago WDW was testing Nintendo technology in the parks (a pre-cursor to MM+), as well as their extremely similar audience base...I could see if it was a choice why Nintendo would go with Universal, for the same exact reasons that JK Rowling did.

One thing I'm excited about is that they will assuredly have another Nintendo World there. I only hope it's part of CityWalk and not inside the park - but in either case, it's an exciting possibility.

Yes and No. None of the Square Enix releases of Kingdom Hearts made it to Nintendo Platforms besides the DS. TSMM did. Epic Mickey did. Disney Infinity has. But I think thats more about reaching the demographic their title is trying to reach. So they've got a decent video game relationship.

I don't see Nintendo as a decent fit whatsoever for any theme park properties. It just wouldnt work, IMO.

Plus as @ParentsOf4 pointed out earlier, its just about getting the warm bodies to Orlando. Theyre going to go to WDW. Yes, theyre going to Universal too and when you go to Universal, you money goes back to Disney as part of the licensing for Marvel.

Its a win-win for everyone.

 

[PhotoDave219]

It started with Potter 2.0

And then it'll continue with (based on insider rumors)
2015 - JW Raptor show, Media Center, Nascar Cafe replacement, E.T. gets an upgrade
2016 - Kong, new Hulk, IOA nighttime show, Sapphire Falls, CityWalk revamp Phase 2, Fallon D-ticket
2017 - F&F replaces San Francisco, Mummy upgrades, revamped Spider-Man, revamped Storm Force, WonderSea
2018 - Avengers E-ticket, Nintendo Land opens

Not to mention even more additions for later down the road!
Toon Lagoon replacement
more hotels
Lost Continent revamp/replacement
Potter 3.0
Seuss expansion
Jurassic Park revamp/addition
Fear Factor replacement
T2 revamp
Shrek replacement
eventual 3rd gate

By the 50th, USF and IOA should surpass Epcot, DCA, DHS and AK in attendance.

The biggest thing with the IPs that Universal is using is that some of them just dont last. (like Twister).

Universal is based on popular culture so they HAVE to constantly change with whats going on with the times.

 

[PhotoDave219]

But then again if you look at theme park history, even Avatar rights were offered to Universal before Disney. Add in the fact that OLC in Japan didn't want Nintendo in their parks (they also don't want Marvel) that would of been a dealbreaker for Nintendo as they are majorly proud of their Japanese Heritage.

I think that OLC not wanting Marvel in their parks should be a very telling sign for those who want Marvel in the theme parks. OLC seems very wise in this.

 

[PhotoDave219]

We all talk about this like it is some sort of game. Comcast is not playing games. They are spending billions of $$$. They wouldn't be doing that unless they see some sort of opportunity. Wall Street may be clueless, but the theme park community, whether pro or con Disney, knows the winds of change are blowing in O-Town.

And maybe... just maybe... the mouse will open up the purse strings.

Or I'm delusional.

 

[Goofyernmost]

The biggest thing with the IPs that Universal is using is that some of them just dont last. (like Twister).

Universal is based on popular culture so they HAVE to constantly change with whats going on with the times.

Constantly? That has been there forever, I think as long as the park has been open. I remember seeing it years and years ago. Not to mention that Tornado's do still exist and even if the movie is dated, it tells the same story. And now, especially, if you have never seen the movie, even that isn't dated.

 

[PhotoDave219]

After this past week of amazing news I have to say I'm with you. I won't be getting excited for Star Wars/Pixar until we finally know what we're getting. I'm absolutely sick of Iger's Star Wars teasing as well. Either give the full announcement already or STHU.

Oh its coming..... someday.

I havent heard anything new on the subject tho.

 

[PhotoDave219]

Constantly? That has been there forever, I think as long as the park has been open. I remember seeing it years and years ago. Not to mention that Tornado's do still exist and even if the movie is dated, it tells the same story. And now, especially, if you have never seen the movie, even that isn't dated.

Can we agree that the movie is a poor reflection of meteorlogy and storm chasing?

 

[Goofyernmost]

Can we agree that the movie is a poor reflection of meteorlogy and storm chasing?

We could if I knew anything about meteorology or storm chasing, but, I don't so it has little or no relevance to me and I suspect the vast majority of other people are in the same uneducated boat as I.

 

[mahnamahna101]

The biggest thing with the IPs that Universal is using is that some of them just dont last. (like Twister).

Universal is based on popular culture so they HAVE to constantly change with whats going on with the times.

Well a lot of their areas will stick. Especially in IOA with the right attention to detail.

Marvel (70+ years)
Dr. Seuss (75+ years)
Popeye (80+ years)
Jurassic Park (25+ years)
Harry Potter (18 years)
Transformers (30+ years)
E.T. (30+ years)
SpongeBob (16 years)
The Simpsons (26 years)
King Kong (82 years)
Fast and Furious (14 years)
Nintendo (40+ years)
Poseidon/Sinbad (centuries and centuries)

I do question the logic behind Fallon. I'd rather see a Soarin' esque D-ticket themed to Wicked/Oz over Jimmy Fallon since Oz is far more timeless IP than the Tonight Show.

Terminator, Shrek, Twister, Mummy, Despicable Me, Fear Factor, MIB and Dudley are all fairly questionable IPs since they're relevant but potentially could date themselves (or already have!!)

However, there's plenty of timeless IPs out there for UNI to pursue:
Star Trek (50 years)
LOTR/Hobbit (75+ years)
TMNT (30+ years)
Doctor Who (50+ years)
Scooby-Doo (45+ years)
Sesame Street if UNI buys out Busch (45+ years)
Looney Tunes if UNI works out a deal with Six Flags for Florida exclusivity (80+ years)
Roahl Dahl (55+ years)
Classic Monsters (80+ years)
Sherlock (125+ years)
James Bond (60+ years)
Godzilla (60+ years)
My Little Pony (30+ years)

I'd guess Comcast is looking to bring enduring IPs into Universal Orlando for now on.

 

[space42]

Constantly? That has been there forever, I think as long as the park has been open. I remember seeing it years and years ago. Not to mention that Tornado's do still exist and even if the movie is dated, it tells the same story. And now, especially, if you have never seen the movie, even that isn't dated.

Twister opened in 1998. It replaced the Ghostbusters show.

 

[MerlinTheGoat]

Yes, my agreeing with your assessment that Chefs de France is not good really jives with my "rhetoric" doesn't it? If we're going to talk about track records though, perhaps you could bandwagon just a little bit more? You're teetering on the edge of absurdity and I would be very entertained with seeing you go over the edge. You try so hard to fit in that you are agreeing and supporting opinions of a WDW past that no 5 year old could be making at the time.

I have no issues with your or anyone else opinion's about food. In fact, in general, from the late 90s until now I agree. Although it isn't as bad as the mid 00s and is getting better in my opinion.

Well given that you admit to your attempts to instigate trouble by trying to "push someone over the edge" (as if you're under the impressions that this is some kind of high stakes game of mental stability lol), there's not much point in responding. I will add some bits of knowledge here for you to mull over (or not since you've pretty much fessed up to trolling for kicks). Believe what you want though.

Small children are more than capable of developing good taste in both food or entertainment, but a lot hinges on having a decent parent (themselves with good taste) to guide the kid in the proper direction. Unfortunately most parents don't give a crap what their kids do for entertainment, and it's extremely apparent that an alarming and ever increasing number of moms/dads have zero interest in what they feed their kids (or themselves for that matter, cue in the Honey Boo Boo crowds there). My mom thankfully was somewhat more invested in developing decent taste in me as a child, at even an early age I developed a much higher standard of taste in food (and entertainment) than likely most kids are being raised with. This was to the detriment of mom's bank account no question, but I was fortunate to have been exposed to good culture as a small child. She was also eager to ensure that I never lost the memories I had as a kid (i've a relatively formidable memory of even the earliest trips I took to WDW). If you raise a kid with McDonalds and other junk food garbage without exposing them to superior food and helping to develop better taste, then their tastes aren't exactly going to develop and they won't understand what sort of food is good or bad. At least not until later in life, though they may never do so as adult either. There are adults everywhere with poor taste in food, McDonalds and similar quality "food" is actually enjoyed by a disturbing quantity of adults and definitely doesn't just cater towards kids (there are even McDonalds fan forums out there, which I would have considered ridiculous and stupid even as a 5 year old).

As for trying hard to fit in, if I cared about fitting in then I would be on the side of the drones who think WDW has never been better. The majority of whom likely never visited WDW prior to the past 10-15 years for proper perspective. The type who also try to make absurd revisionist comments about how original EPCOT was a "critical and financial failure that everyone hated and avoided like the plague".

I myself hadn't visited this forum before returning to WDW again in 2010 (and my most recent trip to WDW was 1997 at that point). So I had not been exposed to negative opinions or been made aware of the sharp quality dropoff, that was a reality I discovered for myself (it was however apparent even before entering the parks when I caught a whiff of the stench now permeating the monorails). Only months later after my disappointing experience did I even discover this forum and the same complaints that were all too common. Many people who are much older and with more WDW experience than myself, as well as from employees and others tied to the inner workings of the company who know better than any of us. Heck, there have even been more cutbacks since just 2010, I brought up the bathroom cleanliness in this topic several times.

While you may claim i'm trying to stir up trouble and negativity, you're way off base in your assumptions. Again I don't expect you to believe me as I would speculate that you've long since made your mind up about me and others who share similar views. But I take absolutely NO pleasure whatsoever in the negative statements i'm compelled to write regarding Disney. Disney was an immense part of my childhood, and WDW is even still a cherished place for me as an adult. Not a pleasant thing to have to post negative things about my beloved EPCOT. But objective criticism about poor quality business decisions are sorely needed.

Food quality improvements are hit or miss, some places have gotten better as articos stated (or with the new restaurants), but some are still getting worse all the time. As I said I am a fan of the Tangerine Cafe and have actually noticed a slight improvement since several years ago (they had been using some very bland and generic white bread, but this last visit they provided a piece of pita bread which was a lot better), so Morocco seems to be doing something right. But the Beauty and the Beast dining options are across the board disappointing, and the cheapo quick service meals at places like Starlight Cafe and Pecos Bills have homogenized their food to death and even plummeted to McDonalds or worse quality. The Food and Wine kiosks I sampled last year were very disappointing and bland. In F&W's case it was my first time trying the food there, so I don't know whether it has gotten better or worse than it originally was (it's poor regardless). I guess I just expected more from it given that it's a special seasonal event that one would think would have better quality food. Interestingly though the dish I sampled at France's kiosk during the Flower and Garden event last week was actually quite good.