A Spirited Perfect Ten

[George]

But are you in Yosemite because you heard Walt Disney once peed on a bush there or for other reasons? Or a more common one I notice is those who instantly became Marvel fans on December 31, 2009. That is the sort of distinction. Yeah, its a continuum but the distinction would be the degree to which Disney influences multiple and major life choices.

The popularity of Disney World mostly comes from people wanting to visit the different places characters have urinated -

 

[George]

Wait? Post counts don't matter? What about likes?

Not if a high number of posts contradicts your view in a weird argument wherein you defined incredibly specific parameters that are obviously correct to you. Also, 10 hours on your Home on the Range pinball machine doesn't count. Try and keep up......

 

[shannon12]

Those who bought just a few years ago were getting decent deals buying directly from Disney. However, in the last few years, Disney has increased prices so much that I think a growing number of potential customers are being scared off. I suspect Disney's recent big price increases have made it increasingly difficult for them to find victims, um, I mean customers.

It's not that potential customers are comparison shopping. Instead, they sit down, listen to the pitch, and then get intimidated by the cost, which is up a lot over the last couple of years. DVC's value doesn't look as magical as it once did.

Iger has been putting a good face on it. That's what a CEO is supposed to do. However, you can see that the company's recent public posturing on DVC sales is not backed by numbers.

When we bought into DVC in early 2012, the price per point for AKV was still just about 100 bucks a point and we were given an extra 20 points for every 100 points bought. Not long after we bought the price went to 145. And now looking at 160, there is no way I could buy direct right now even being in the same financial situation. I feel like they are pricing themselves out

 

[jakeman]

The ten thousand lookie loos floating by your door made me laugh out loud!

Im here at AKL now and 3 days into our trip we had a big envelope slipped under our door. It was from DVC with a big cartoon picture of the GFV (framable quality), and a letter with it offering us a $100 disney gift card if we took the tour of the GFV. I have 2 small children so I did not have the time to do this. Is this the norm for taking the tour?

It was for us. and that was 10 years ago.

 

[FutureCEO]

Resale timeshares are much cheaper. My parents bought around one at $70 a point in 2005 and then another at $50 a point a few year later. Of course, now Disney changed the rules (for resale points) where you have to stay at a Disney hotel but my parents are not world travelers anyway.


Granted prices are probably higher today but still a good deal.

 

[OlympiaBinewski]

Interesting. What field/market are you in?

I work in R&D in the food industry. Over a 12 year career I've had 5 very different roles, and only one in an engineering discipline. My company prefers a holistic view unless you are committed to a deep narrow view of a very specific technology ( lipids, polymer chemistry, extrusion etc.). Cross functional experience is also very valuable, for example someone with my background doing a development assignment in Procurement or Supply Chain.

 

[Nubs70]

DVC members are usually clamoring for any new DVC resorts, not this time it seems. I'm sure Disney relies on this early push to buy points, and good word of mouth via sites like this one. It makes me wonder how all the other members that do not read these sites feel about the Poly. Does this mean Disney tripped themselves up on this one? And another thing to aggravate members. It's my understanding that DVC cannot sell to anyone living in the state of California. Either they haven't gotten the real estate purchasing thing settled yet, or did they just blow off Californians, thinking they'll but when it becomes legal to do so through the mails, over the phone. I for one am in California, and have gotten none of the sales material for the Poly that I read other members have gotten. It seems if I did want to add on to the Poly, I'd have to fly to Hawaii, or Florida to do so in person.

In my opinion, DVC was built and marketed to persons that fall into the elastic income demographic. I.E. allowing individuals to lock in lodging prices that fit their income circumstance. Thereby guaranteeing occupancy/income from WDW's perspective.

The current pushback from PVB is that the PVR pricing schedule is clearly targeted for only the inelastic income demographic. DVC had a somwhat uniform status other than number of points and home resort. PVB has created a new exclusive demographic that establishes a high class and low class DVC stratum.

So you may have 1000 DVC points, but I have 1000 at PVB. Who has the larger DVC phallus?

 

[71jason]

Villas at the Grand Floridian (VGF) sales have been disappointing. As WDW's flagship resort, Disney was convinced that VGF would fly off the shelf. It's had some good months but, overall, sales are not where they are supposed to be.

Wait, so facilities at the Grand should be stretched even further than they are now???

 

[71jason]

"Lifestylers" seems like a fairly amorphous term, but assuming that we're going with a broader definition that includes not just bloggers like me, but anyone who spends "a lot" of time at the various Disney parks & resorts (I assume the term requires something more than just an online fixation, lest most people here would be lifestylers, and given the negative connotation, I assume you all don't want that), I'd say 1984.

This is when the first annual pass was available, and thus when it first became realistic for those obsessed with Disney (and people were no doubt obsessed long before this) to visit on a regular, repeated basis in large numbers. It's only proliferated since, but if you want a single moment in time, that would be my pick.

I've met/overheard plenty of hardcore Disney fans--many of whom seem totally oblivious to the fact that there's a fan community online--who seem to visit nearly daily, so I think tying the term to the birth of the internet is arbitrarily limiting.

Great post, and exactly what I'm getting at. Bloggers are certainly the most prominent example of the "ilifestyle community," but there are plenty more non-bloggers in it.

1984 seems too early tho. Even 10 years ago, the majority of online sites were directed at making money. "Tour Guide Mike," for instance, was never a huge fan of the parks--I don't think he set foot in them unless he was being paid. Similarly, "Board X"--at one time the largest DISney site online--was created to promote a travel company, although it was slowly taken over by lifestylers and eventually shifted editorial content to cater to them. The idea of taking 20 pictures a day of BAH deconstruction or pictures of a Dole Whip would have seemed ludicrous to these people--they were all about giving useful information re: a WDW trip, not feeding some hunger for WDW news/nostalgia.

@PhotoDave219 may be on to something with Twitter. "#DisneyTwitter"* is certainly the hotbed of the lifestyle community. If you still don't understand the concept I'm talking about, go spend an hour on Twitter, you'll get it. But there were already people spending an inordinate amount of time at WDW as of the late 90s; Adventurers Club is the best example of this, as is so often the case with this subject. By the 90s, the idea of moving to Orlando "to be close to Disney" was definitely a thing.

* [I realize "#DisneyTwitter" started as a joke, but much like "Bro Country," the joke is just too fitting not to keep the term.]

 

[shernernum]

Wait, so facilities at the Grand should be stretched even further than they are now???

Actually no, I am sure that the GFV are full most of the time, as are most of the DVC's on property. The problem for TDO is that it is not being filled by people who own GFV points. It is instead being filled by those who have points in other resorts (this is just my speculation, no hard data to back it up.) However, if this is true, that means not only is GFV not flourishing at its ridiculously high price point, it is also being filled by people who are not paying maintenance fees to its upkeep, as there are still a significant amount of these fees sitting on the shelf due to unsold points.

 

[flynnibus]

But It certainly does speak to your passion about WDW. Even though you've also been pretty passionate in this discussion to downplay it.

It's not really a bad thing after all.

I dont deny the passion for the topic.. Else why would i be here years later? But there is a distiction between frequency and revolving your life choices around something. You can even be an addict, but keep it as a hobby and not a life choice.

Simply look at where something is in their life and how much of it is dependent or orbiting the subject.

People talk about those who spend a lot of time, or get paid, etc... Those are the symptoms of the choices - how the life choices manifest themselves. How you separate from the casual, the hobby, and the immersed is by gauging just how much of a commitment it is, how it is prioritized, and how other things revolve around it.

I have a collection of toys... That costs alot of money.. I spend a lot of time online lokking at and discussing toys.. I even have space in my office dedicated to those toys. Yet, its not any obession or lifestyle choice because those toys impact very little in the rest of my life. Ive made no lifechoices around them, they dont come before other responsibilities, and while it is a chunk of my time, it is largely inert and doesnt impact much else in my life.

People tend to latch onto the manifestations they have seen and try to apply those blindly to label people... Rather than understand the underlying reasoning justifications. Its copying verse undeRstanding. The same way people try to armchair imagineer by copying what was done previously or criticizing divergences because they are different from what they know the 'correct' examples are.

 

[ParentsOf4]

Actually no, I am sure that the GFV are full most of the time, as are most of the DVC's on property. The problem for TDO is that it is not being filled by people who own GFV points. It is instead being filled by those who have points in other resorts (this is just my speculation, no hard data to back it up.) However, if this is true, that means not only is GFV not flourishing at its ridiculously high price point, it is also being filled by people who are not paying maintenance fees to its upkeep, as there are still a significant amount of these fees sitting on the shelf due to unsold points.

VGF is about 80% sold. Disney has about 500K points left to sell. Normally, that would mean VGF should sell out in the spring. However, Disney has a history of calling something "sold out" even when there are many points left to sell.

With PVB sales starting to the general public next month, VGF sales likely will drop steeply. I would not be surprised if Disney declares VGF "sold out" with a few hundred thousand points remaining.

 

[Goofyernmost]

People tend to latch onto the manifestations they have seen and try to apply those blindly to label people... Rather than understand the underlying reasoning justifications. Its copying verse undeRstanding. The same way people try to armchair imagineer by copying what was done previously or criticizing divergences because they are different from what they know the 'correct' examples are.

I'm confused, how is even attempting to not be considered a lifestyler not blindly labeling people? It's like saying, "I'm not one of them". Because somehow someone got in their heads that is was a bad thing and if it were just looked at as something that is done instead of taking care of responsibilities, aren't they going to go broke before to long? How is making a living independently promoting Disney any different then a person making a living with a plumbing business. Do people that have won over Disney get benefits that others don't? Do people that work in a field that buys stuff from people not get benefits from that association? I use the plumbing example because I personally know a person that has taken a free trip to the Caribbean every year courtesy of one of his suppliers. Are they then lifestylers since they are absorbed into a certain way of life that dictates a lot of how they live their life. Don't we all do that regardless of the topic?

Personally, I think that the word "lifestylers" was meant as a derogatory expression to make one feel that their somewhat unusual obsession with Disney is normal. Hate to be the one to break anyone's bubble, but, the vast majority of the world does not spend a single moment on a Disney Discussion Board. I have even had to say, in my defense, when someone asked me about my involvement with Disney in a manner that was more like... "what is wrong with you"... would you be happier if I drank every night.

 

[flynnibus]

Great post, and exactly what I'm getting at. Bloggers are certainly the most prominent example of the "ilifestyle community," but there are plenty more non-bloggers in it.

1984 seems too early tho. Even 10 years ago, the majority of online sites were directed at making money. "Tour Guide Mike," for instance, was never a huge fan of the parks--I don't think he set foot in them unless he was being paid. Similarly, "Board X"--at one time the largest DISney site online--was created to promote a travel company, although it was slowly taken over by lifestylers and eventually shifted editorial content to cater to them. The idea of taking 20 pictures a day of BAH deconstruction or pictures of a Dole Whip would have seemed ludicrous to these people--they were all about giving useful information re: a WDW trip, not feeding some hunger for WDW news/nostalgia.

@PhotoDave219 may be on to something with Twitter. "#DisneyTwitter"* is certainly the hotbed of the lifestyle community. If you still don't understand the concept I'm talking about, go spend an hour on Twitter, you'll get it. But there were already people spending an inordinate amount of time at WDW as of the late 90s; Adventurers Club is the best example of this, as is so often the case with this subject. By the 90s, the idea of moving to Orlando "to be close to Disney" was definitely a thing.

* [I realize "#DisneyTwitter" started as a joke, but much like "Bro Country," the joke is just too fitting not to keep the term.]

Twitter is just their medium of choice lately... I think you need to look more at the explosion of the iPhone, blogging tools, and companies like touring plans. The idea that someone can get something in return for sharing or grunt park work enabled many to take a passion and convert it into an identity or place within a social circle.

The explosion of smartphones, sharing tools, prosumer photography, and home grown business around the park's is the perfect incubator for converting people to the cult.

 

[Cesar R M]

Its a post-internet thing. Seems like it started out of twitter, because it wasn't that way back in '04.

I think you can attribute it to an unintended consequence of how Laura Spencer made the Social Media Moms into some sort of "rock star" type mentality. And people started to emulate it. And we are left with what we have today.

We shoulda had this convo last week, post-trivia.

As for general things, I blame Facebook.
The "friend" and "like" hunters (specially Asians) begging for likes and "friends" to strangers.. is both sad and cringe worthy.

 

[Soarin' Over Pgh]

VGF is about 80% sold. Disney has about 500K points left to sell. Normally, that would mean VGF should sell out in the spring. However, Disney has a history of calling something "sold out" even when there are many points left to sell.

With PVB sales starting to the general public next month, VGF sales likely will drop steeply. I would not be surprised if Disney declares VGF "sold out" with a few hundred thousand points remaining.

My boss is in her VGF right now and *still* micromanaging me from there.

Is there a spot in MK where there's no cell reception and if so, would it be rude to wish she'd go there?

 

[Cesar R M]

The popularity of Disney World mostly comes from people wanting to visit the different places characters have urinated -

 

[flynnibus]

Before people's passions would be their own... And there were few places to exchange and get exposure.

With the explosion of personal sharing/publishing... People now had a platform to be seen, as well as like minds to find each other. Now people find each other and they start to reinforce each other. So now you have this space where individuals can move more like a group... Even if physically isolated and disconnected.

I think the other fuel on the fire is when certain businesses turned from individuals reporting to building armies of contributors. This was a catalyst that allowed people to convert from free time to part time and greater. It provided motivation for people to do more and more. In addition, it creates new social circles where the ideals mature and get refined. The bubble forms...

The later phase of the 'news race' between these sites became an arms race... Which rapidly raises exposure and the ranks of these circles.

That's how I see the evolution that morphed into a lifestyle where people can put their social circle, their hobby time, and even their employment into the Disney bubble.

Twitter is just the tool right now... I think the blogging tools were more important in bringing visibility and ring forming. They all hung out in forums and blogs before they retreated to Twitter

 

[hopemax]

Personally, I think that the word "lifestylers" was meant as a derogatory expression to make one feel that their somewhat unusual obsession with Disney is normal.

This is what I've gotten out of this discussion too.

As for timeline. I can tell you that when I first started participating in Disney Internet fandom near the end of 1996, there were already elements of what other people would call "lifestyler" behavior. I'm just not sure where others would draw the line.

I spent a great deal of 1997-1999 on mIRC chatting it up with Deb Wills, Deb Koma (although, she was pretty much just a Mom back then...maybe the original Disney Mommy if I really stop to think about it), and the rest of the original crew that went on to become the AllEarsNet team. I wouldn't put them in the "lifestyle" category. They had an interest, better financials or a better location to be able to visit more than the rest, and a desire to inform. but I couldn't say the same about everyone that wasn't hanging on to their every word. People were already rearranging their lives to make their home more Disney, be able to afford more trips, how their personalities could be more Disney. It started before I showed up, but the old RAD group, prior to RADP had already created the Trimobius Disney Cabinet. For most people, it meant you picked a silly name, and put a line in your signature, and that was the end of it. But for more than one person it meant that everything they posted, must be written in a style that supported your TDC persona. Some of it more respectable than others. Anyone else remember Iago and Zazu's Attraction of the Week posts? That was what we had at the time for more detailed Disney info. That, Yesterland, and the infrequent posts from Widen Your World, but Bruce and Ronnie introduced that "character personality" into the narrative. And all the sig conventions of posting how many times you had visited, where you had stayed, originated on USENET. I never got into the Emuck stuff, but I would guess lifestyler behavior was there. And some Disney fandoms pre-date the internet. The Mouse Club, was founded in 1979. And while I'm sure most people were primarily interested in simply finding "like-minded individuals", and sources to buy and sell collectibles, I'm pretty sure there were already more than one person who went far beyond that, based on interactions with people years later in other avenues.

My own "claim to Disney internet fame" was in 1998/1999, my husband and I got upgraded to a night in the Yellowstone Suite at WL. Took a whole roll of film, just "documenting the room" (oh, if digital cameras were just a little farther along) I couldn't WAIT to get back home to put them on my dinky, little website. And yes, people just gushed over it, and yes it was thrilling.

Technology has given "lifestylers" better tools to work with (digital cameras, blogs, twitter). And some of the "expression" has changed. We were part of the NFFC from 1998-2005ish, and while attending conventions you could certainly see that your "worth" could be measured by some in how many Disney Legends would count you as a "friend." Same thing happens now, but we look at it differently, because so many of the true Disney Legends have passed on, or aren't doing well. Saying you were "so lucky" because you spent last weekend at the Davis' house (with both Marc and Alice) instantaneously had more value than taking selfies with random Disney Parks Blogger. If the 90's gang, had had similar technology all of the lifestyler stuff would have played out in a much more apparent way then.

 

[Soarin' Over Pgh]

This is what I've gotten out of this discussion too.

As for timeline. I can tell you that when I first started participating in Disney Internet fandom near the end of 1996, there were already elements of what other people would call "lifestyler" behavior. I'm just not sure where others would draw the line.

I spent a great deal of 1997-1999 on mIRC chatting it up with Deb Wills, Deb Koma (although, she was pretty much just a Mom back then...maybe the original Disney Mommy if I really stop to think about it), and the rest of the original crew that went on to become the AllEarsNet team. I wouldn't put them in the "lifestyle" category. They had an interest, better financials or a better location to be able to visit more than the rest, and a desire to inform. but I couldn't say the same about everyone that wasn't hanging on to their every word. People were already rearranging their lives to make their home more Disney, be able to afford more trips, how their personalities could be more Disney. It started before I showed up, but the old RAD group, prior to RADP had already created the Trimobius Disney Cabinet. For most people, it meant you picked a silly name, and put a line in your signature, and that was the end of it. But for more than one person it meant that everything they posted, must be written in a style that supported your TDC persona. Some of it more respectable than others. Anyone else remember Iago and Zazu's Attraction of the Week posts? That was what we had at the time for more detailed Disney info. That, Yesterland, and the infrequent posts from Widen Your World, but Bruce and Ronnie introduced that "character personality" into the narrative. And all the sig conventions of posting how many times you had visited, where you had stayed, originated on USENET. I never got into the Emuck stuff, but I would guess lifestyler behavior was there. And some Disney fandoms pre-date the internet. The Mouse Club, was founded in 1979. And while I'm sure most people were primarily interested in simply finding "like-minded individuals", and sources to buy and sell collectibles, I'm pretty sure there were already more than one person who went far beyond that, based on interactions with people years later in other avenues.

My own "claim to Disney internet fame" was in 1998/1999, my husband and I got upgraded to a night in the Yellowstone Suite at WL. Took a whole roll of film, just "documenting the room" (oh, if digital cameras were just a little farther along) I couldn't WAIT to get back home to put them on my dinky, little website. And yes, people just gushed over it, and yes it was thrilling.

Technology has given "lifestylers" better tools to work with (digital cameras, blogs, twitter). And some of the "expression" has changed. We were part of the NFFC from 1998-2005ish, and while attending conventions you could certainly see that your "worth" could be measured by some in how many Disney Legends would count you as a "friend." Same thing happens now, but we look at it differently, because so many of the true Disney Legends have passed on, or aren't doing well. Saying you were "so lucky" because you spent last weekend at the Davis' house (with both Marc and Alice) instantaneously had more value than taking selfies with random Disney Parks Blogger. If the 90's gang, had had similar technology all of the lifestyler stuff would have played out in a much more apparent way then.

Out of the nearly 1400 photos I took on my last trip, a good 100 or so were of unusual carp most people wouldn't think about taking photos of (at least those who aren't on this forum and in the general community) ...trash cans, monorail seats. I took photos of people acting like pigs, kids breaking things in queues, etc.

If it were "film" I wouldn't have wasted such pricey material. What a difference digital makes!

Side note but I think if Tony Baxter were to be in the same room and even made eye contact, I'd lose it, let alone actually talking to him. Thinking of it, I'm fangrrling, there's a million questions and with my luck they'd all come out at once.

"Mr. Baxter!!! How splash can what and rainythey humid spinny gurgling who wad mountain avenue?"