A Spirited Perfect Ten

Cesar R M

Well-Known Member
Yes it's amazing the BRAVO-SIERRA that comes out of the food industry, Some of us know the rudiments of biochemistry and well the food industry just lies about so many things fructose vs glucose for instance. The fact that HFCS is 1/10 price of cane sugar has NOTHING WHATSOEVER to do with its wide adoption. Or that other countries are not so enamored of it.

Heck even MEXICO uses CANE SUGAR in soft drinks not HFCS, Of course ADM does not own the Congress of the Union like it owns the US Congress.
IT wont be long. The latest senators/representants in Mexico are easily bought.
They are about to authorize NSA like snooping on the internet (for "piracy") and even Fracking (which will be probably worse than US's, because there aren't that many laws regarding nature protection)
 

ford91exploder

Resident Curmudgeon
IT wont be long. The latest senators/representants in Mexico are easily bought.
They are about to authorize NSA like snooping on the internet (for "piracy") and even Fracking (which will be probably worse than US's, because there aren't that many laws regarding nature protection)

Ouch - sorry to hear that.
 

WDW1974

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
Hey ... Sugar ... and you know you all are my sweets ... but can we not have 7-8 pages on the merits of various sugar substitutes and the what constitutes the real stuff? There's just no way people can wade thru that.

I am on Page 48 and I know I've likely missed posts I'd like to read/discuss. That's what happens when a totally off the rails tangent happens.
 

Cesar R M

Well-Known Member
I would have thought the conservative view was that big corporations know best, and if the market says it's good to move their trade elsewhere then that's tough, you should set up your own corporation if you have a problem with it.

How did this thread get on to the subject of corn syrup again? This is crazy off-topic!
I love that most of the answers about the big abuse of big corporations is "do your own corporation then".
HAH.

What you are describing is Neo-Conservatism or Corporatism and it's wholly owned subsidiary Big Government, Conservatism is defined by smaller government CLOSE to the people so it can be held accountable, It's why in the US the only thing the GOP hates more than the democrats is conservatives because they want to move much of the power now located in Washington DC back to the states and cities.

This is WAY OT if you want to continue PM me and we can continue offline.

As to Corn Syrup - we discuss this every 2-3 spirited threads, Last one was 'Spirited Seventh Heaven'
Dont forget the talk about philly subs and food ;)
 

flynnibus

Premium Member
Do you see this interdisciplinary approach in todays engineers?

I saw too much of creations of 'specialty' engineering programs.. and in trying to cram more cross-disciplines in the same credit count they would create special versions of the classes (dumbed down). So instead of the Electrical Engineer who took 3 semesters of physics... you'd get a 'computer engineer' who took 'physics for engineers' or some equivalent. They'd cheat on the engineering core to find space for the specializations.

My core sciences were the exact same classes that those majors took themselves. Math, Physics, Chemistry. The only difference was how far you went.

Now on the flipside... that also meant it wasn't until my 3rd year that I even touched anything remotely specific to my major and never had time for very 'practical' course material. We didn't study how to use current technology, we studied the principles that made technology possible... so very book smart, very little practical experience/knowledge. Students could tell you how many electrons had to be doped up on the silicon to make the transistor work.. but couldn't build a stereo amp. I think my program was weak in balancing that.
 

Nemo14

Well-Known Member
Hey ... Sugar ... and you know you all are my sweets ... but can we not have 7-8 pages on the merits of various sugar substitutes and the what constitutes the real stuff? There's just no way people can wade thru that.

I am on Page 48 and I know I've likely missed posts I'd like to read/discuss. That's what happens when a totally off the rails tangent happens.
It just gets worse, if you're only on page 48...
 

ParentsOf4

Well-Known Member
Careful... you're blurring lines here. The Eisner period included an agressive EXPANSION period that included multiple new locations, new parks, and new businesses. Growth due to nurturing and growth due to Expansion are very different things.. and we know Expansion is not infinite, and it often has negative consequences.

Eisner came in and they recognized that the parks were highly under valued and ripe for aggressive expansion. That is a point in the business that isn't universal nor necessarily repeatable over and over. I applaud that they had the guts to go and do all that stuff (even if the Disney Decade fizzled) but that was a moment in time that isn't necessarily 1 to 1 to another period in time afterwards. This is where stats comparisons start to tell muddied stories.
In general, I agree with your post. Please see my later post here.

I will add that when Eisner joined, it was by no means obvious that the parks were "highly under valued and ripe for aggressive expansion". I recall conventional wisdom on Wall Street being that Disney had overextended itself with Epcot, which opened in October 1982. Sentiment had not changed appreciably a few years later when Eisner launched the period of aggressive expansion.

Eisner was taking a big risk, a risk I strongly suspect corporate Disney's current management would never have taken if they were in Eisner's shoes.

If Disney's current management was calling the shots in 1984, I suspect today we'd have the Magic Kingdom, Epcot, Downtown Disney, and a bunch of timeshares. :D
 

WDW1974

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
I'm not saying he won't but he has said that 2 or 3 times in the past.

True. And he has said his book, a wonderful treasure for any fan, has been nearing being sold out for the past ... 6-7 years now! :)

But he can change his mind. I am quite serious about ending these threads after this one and spending far less time here. But there's no guarantee that I won't start a similar thread in four months if I feel like it ... and there's no guarantee that I just won't give up the whole online crazy fan community deal entirely.

These aren't life or death decisions and people can do what they wish. I loved his blog myself, one of the very few that I read regularly.
 

WDW1974

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
It all comes down to the survey.

I was tagged at HS this summer upon entering the park just prior to the daily Frozen parade. The surveyor was fishing so hard for me to give Frozen as the reason I was at HS. I refused to bite and she was almost in tears by the end of her statistically unbiased inquisition.

Ridiculous.

Of course, all of Disney's 'research' is a sham and has been for a very long time.
 

GoofGoof

Premium Member
Actually a WELL DONE Star Wars land could be the mythical 'Potter Swatter' But TDO is too cheap to expend the necessary resources.
This is probably not the place to have this discussion, but IMHO Potter is out of the box and nothing is putting him back. No addition (even an amazing SW Land) will make people forget about Potter or stop going to Uni.
 

WDW1974

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
I've been on Gringotts twice and the pacing is just so odd, and the storyline is...well, its better than Revenge of the Mummy at least? I give Gringotts high marks due to the overall experience from outside the bank to the elevator down 9 miles (yet that doesn't explain how you arrive at the exit having not gone UP 9 miles) and the screens are glorious....still, they're screens, the best part of the ride happens in the very beginning and the rest is just odd

I feel like that too. I feel like you have this amazing setup with the queue and pre-show and then ... then ... well, you sorta sit in front of screens and watch people yelling at you in 3D while you're supposed to be in mortal danger. Or muggle danger!

I find it fun as an experience, but also lacking. It doesn't impress me anywhere close to Forbidden Journey does or even Spidey does to this day. It's quality ... absolutely, but not anywhere near the experience that UNI BRAND advocates would have you believe.
 

ford91exploder

Resident Curmudgeon
This is probably not the place to have this discussion, but IMHO Potter is out of the box and nothing is putting him back. No addition (even an amazing SW Land) will make people forget about Potter or stop going to Uni.

Correct, but lets face it the mindshare for anyone other than a toddler/little girl is currently at UNI, I meant Potter Swatter in the context of getting mindshare in the 8 and over demographic back to WDW.
 

WDW1974

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
I always thought her name was Chri....

And that there was perhaps a whiff of jealous sexism in the smartest Disney blogger being a girl, and even more so a hint of surprise in that a woman would be this nerdily obsessive about theme parks.

Yes, I had heard her name (or his) being started with those letters as well. Again, I don't care whether the person in question is male or female. I care about their words. I think she has, in the past, been enamored with a past that she was too young to experience (I'll call it the #cultofcitrus effect!) and doesn't fully grasp. But she is worlds better than anyone else out there at bringing forgotten parts of WDW, especially WDW Village and resorts, to a wider audience of fans who had/have no clue such things existed

Also, if dein Liebling visited for the first time in 2004, wasn't this the WDW of Eisner that you so idealise? To me, the main destruction had been accomplished before 2005, so anybody visiting in 2004 saw but a faint remnant of the WDW that once was. If one however blames Iger for WDW's demise, then the 2004 first time visitor must be said to have still seen WDW in its heyday.

As to the WDW of 2004 being Eisner's, of course it was. But it was also at the lowest point, arguably, of his tenure and just before major projects he approved (including the most popular WDW attraction today) opened.
Things are not as black and white as you wish to make them. WDW isn't dead, so there has been no demise. But it is diseased ... and that, most certainly, started under Michael. The thing is that Bob was his No. 2 then and he has now had almost a decade as the No. 1 to heal it and what has he done? It isn't a question of 'what have you done for me lately?' but more a question of 'What have you done for me at all?'

One might call 1974 or 1984 or 1994, WDW in its heyday. I'd never call 2004 its heyday.
 

WDW1974

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
We shall simply ignore execution for the sake of argument.

That's for sure, although I'll argue (and have) that DCA 1.0 could have been successful had they gone all in on what was done, had they not cut corners almost everywhere, slashed budgets when projects were underway, cut attractions, cut detail. Yes, 2.0 is markedly better than 1.0.

But they didn't go 'all in' on the vision for the park as it was created. They set themselves up for failure and I recall thinking just that as I got private tours in fall and winter of 2000 and kept thinking 'Is this all that's here?''
 

Gabe1

Ivory Tower Squabble EST 2011. WINDMILL SURVIVOR
Disney with its 2% annual domestic theme park growth capex under Iger has seen revenue increase by 62% over 9 years, equating to a compound annual growth rate of 5.5%.

The unremarkable Six Flags, with a negative growth capex budget (capex is actually less than depreciation), has seen a compound annual revenue growth rate of 5.3% in recent years.

Wow, so Disney's domestic Parks & Resorts invests more than Six Flags yet its revenue growth is about the same, even though Six Flags is not spending enough to properly maintain its amusement parks.

With a little perspective, 62% over 9 years doesn't seem so good, does it? ;)

Why would someone want to invest intelligently?

With Eisner's higher investment levels over his 21 years, Parks & Resorts compound annual growth rate was about 11%.

Universal's Theme Parks division, with a similar investment level, has realized a compound annual growth rate of about 13% since 2006.

Interesting.

Intelligent theme park investment produces superior growth. :)

The Polynesian Villas & Resorts (PVR) membership lasts for 50 years. Based on the performance of similarly sized DVC resorts, PVR memberships should sell out within 3 years.

After their initial purchase, it will cost PVR members $145/night to stay during spring break or summer at WDW's second-most expensive resort in rooms that normally start at $543/night and go up from there.

PVR means great cash flow at the Polynesian for 3 years and subpar cash flow for 47 years. :D

Does anyone recall when Iger plans to retire? Did I read somewhere that they extended his contract to 2018, 3 years from now? ;)

Are we talking about the same Disney?

Between Disneyland, the Magic Kingdom, Epcot, and TDL, Walt Disney Productions (later The Walt Disney Company) was operating or had ties to the 4 most successful and profitable theme parks in the world.

Michael Eisner wasn't hired to fix Parks & Resorts. Even in 1984, Disney's Parks & Resorts was the world leader in theme parks. In 1984, Disney's Parks & Resorts was profitable, the only successful segment in the company at that time. Eisner was hired to fix the rest of Walt Disney Productions, which was performing abysmally.

In addition to completely turning around the rest of the company, Eisner was the one who oversaw the creation of the modern WDW. He built 2 theme parks, 2 water parks, and 14 hotels. He doubled the size of DLR and invested internationally in Paris and Hong Kong. Eisner was the one who created Disney Cruise Line.

Despite inheriting the #1 theme parks in the United States (and the World), Eisner grew Disney's domestic Parks & Resorts revenue by over 650%, and total Parks & Resorts revenue by over 800%.

Kinda makes Iger's 62% domestic and 67% total seem paltry, doesn't it? ;)

Gross margin is a function several types of expenses, with operating expense comprising the lion's share. Capex (in the form of depreciation) actually is Parks & Resorts smallest expense.

Heck, Disney spends more on the nefarious "Selling, general, administrative and other" than it does on depreciation (i.e. capex).

The problem with basing growth on higher prices is that you slowly price yourself out of your core market.

Let's look at the P&R numbers a bit more closely.

As we've already discussed, domestic P&R revenue is up 62% since Iger took charge while WDW ticket prices are up 63%. If attendance was flat, this would make sense.

However, attendance is not flat. Since 2005, domestic attendance is up 24%.

The problem is median household income is up only 17% from 2005 to 2013. (2014 numbers won't be released until September.) Vacationers can't keep up with WDW price increases. They still want to visit the parks but they can't spend like they used to. That means they spend less on all the other high margin items that Disney sells.

For example, in 2005, the "theme-park-admission-to-food,-beverage,-and-merchandise" ratio was 1.04. In other words, for every $1 Guests spent on admission, they spent $1.04 on food, beverage, and merchandise. In 2014, that number was down to 0.88, a number without precedent since Disneyland's opening in 1955.

In the end, higher prices boomerang on Disney. They've got 24% more people in the park but, relative to what they spent in 2005, those people are spending less. Disney's opex is up to handle all those extra people, yet Disney isn't realizing comparable revenue gains in other areas to offset those extra expenses.

Thus, despite an attendance increase of 24% along with higher ticket prices of 63%, domestic revenue is only up 62%. Margins become increasingly difficult to maintain because of higher attendance, resulting in Disney making quality cuts to keep margins up. This also results in Disney stretching out growth initiatives in order to prop up those same margins.

I'm not sure what your definition of financial success is, but I see a lot of red flags that suggest all is not well at WDW. :)

You constantly amaze me with your ability to put the financial side of TDC and Parks into prospective.

Thanks again for all you contribute. :inlove:
 

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