A Spirited Perfect Ten

[Goofyernmost]

On the contrary, people tend to be much more understanding and cooperative if kept informed with honest information about the source and severity of a given problem. People don't need technical details they generally won't understand, but do respond positively to honest communication. One of the biggest sources of frustration (and even anger) is when people are sitting on a train (or flight, MM+ is snagged, etc.) and the train just sits there for a couple hours without a word of explanation from the crew. However, when you explain that you are stopped because the freight train in front broke a knuckle - then you explain what that means and what is required to get moving again (even if you still don't know how long it will be) - passengers are far, far more content.

There certainly are valid reasons for guests to know at least the nature of a problem, and again, it does indeed have a positive influence on their overall experience. Nobody really likes to feel they're being kept in the dark, and when you honestly explain whats wrong, it helps immensely (and they're less likely to blame the poor CM, for instance, when they know what the problem is).

Yes, it is handy, but, somewhat useless information. In the real world whatever reason you are given is usually fabricated anyway, so if one feels better having made up reasons, then by all means go for it. But, ask the right people. A front line CM will not know what the problem is, they are not high enough up on the food chain or knowledgeable enough about the situation to give a real answer. It's not like there are three people out in the backroom and they can just turn around and ask what's wrong.

All I'm saying is that in a situation such as a property wide outage, all the useful information that you can get is we are working on the problem and hope to be back online very soon. And that's what the cute responses are all about. They don't know and if they did know they wouldn't know how to explain it and 99% of the people wouldn't know what they are talking about if they did explain it.

 

[Goofyernmost]

Yeah, because I totally asked for the downtime to occur!! /sarcasm.
Seriously Goofyernmost.. you're being ridiculous now.

And I'm sure Disney planned it just to make your life miserable. The whole topic is ridiculous, it's just that you are only choosing to see one side of it. I understand the frustration and the reality. Maybe you should try looking at it from the other side. You are an IT guy, does nothing ever happen that was unexpected in your world? Or is it just too much fun to blame a mega-corporation for anything and everything?

 

[Goofyernmost]

I said nothing remotely close to that.

I didnt see the need to quote the rest of your post as it was entirely based on the premise that I felt I deserved any type of explanation as to why the system was down. My original comment on the issue focused on the reports of Disney giving people the excuse of "we are adding more magic to the system" when they experienced a resort wide failure two days ago. I commented that it was funny because they felt that was a proper answer to a guest who is experiencing a complete failure of a system that Disney advertised to them as "easier", "new-level", and "unique".

This system has suffered complete failure several times now and has minor issues on a daily basis for many people and they have yet to even put any type of backup system in place. When a guest has a major problem with this system that they were told is "magical", Disney tells them, "dont worry, were just dding MORE MAGIC!" Sorry if my pointing out that theyre answer is a completely ridiculous one to give to a confused, adult customer.

You mentioned how new systems are plagued with problems for quite awhile. That is understandable, but if nearly two years after the system first was tested and they still experience complete crashes and still have yet to install a backup, I cant excuse that. Should people storm MSUSA and picket guest relations? No, but they should be respected enough by the company theyre paying a PREMIUM price to, with expecations to have the same "flawless" experience as you claim you did. Especially considering that the older system they knew for years never experienced RESORT WIDE FAILURE. I dont even think old system was capable of having anywhere near a resort wide failure. $1billion dollars and years of problems are excusable with an answer that only a 5 year old would fall for? Not for me.

Well, it's the best answer that you will get from people that don't know what the problem is. If you think that the "old" system was anywhere near is diverse and all encompassing as the "new" one, then there is nothing else I can say. I don't like to see them down either, but, crap happens. We can learn to roll with the occasional punches and take the action we need to make life easier on ourselves or we can complain that it is less then perfect. That really won't enhance the visit. And to say that you can't excuse that... well if you want to visit WDW you will have to ride it out or stay home. Those are the only options in reality that any of us have. Just don't expect miracles from people that are not trained in that particular part of the system to know the answer.

 

[spacemt354]

The MK is absolutely not a theme park in any real sense, not the way it was 30 years ago or even 15 years ago. It is a place you go to run around and ride rides and meet foamheads and eat overpriced crap. I'd love to know what the stories of MSUSA, Adventureland, Tomorrowland etc are today. They don't exist. It's all part of the industrial experience family vacation ... just ride the six things you want at MK, meet the characters you want at Cindy's Royal Table and then go ride Soarin at EPCOT and maybe the Seas with Nemo and then have dinner at Le Cellier. Rinse and Repeat tomorrow etc etc etc.

It is a monumentally lesser product than what WDW offered in 1975 or 1985 or 1995. You can't even begin to compare what you get for your vacation dollars now versus then.

FP started the problem in 1999. It was compounded by the DDP. And MM+ has taken it to a whole nother level.

Forget about Walt or Roy ... or even Ron or Card ... this isn't how WDW was supposed to work, why it was.

But so long as Disney can sell land and sell timeshares and convert hotel inventory into it, things will continue.

Bob Iger is a cancer on WDW. As is his leadership team from Tom and Jay to Meg and Chappie and George and Jim and Phil and Danny etc etc

They don't even know what their business is and what it is supposed to be. They are just good at sucking whatever goodwill the Disney BRAND has and counting on the Lifestylers and addicts and first-timers to get them through. There schmucks don't get basic things like the importance of shade and benches in theme parks in subtropical Florida. Effing MAGICal.

The changing times and guest characteristics account for a lot of this description. It's sad, but it's the reality of the times and nothing, not even new leadership, is going to bring the MK or WDW as a whole back to what it was.

In this new technology crazed age, most guests don't want to sit in the shade, relax, and admire the landscape. They'd rather be in constant motion racing from one attraction to the next based on the pre-determined schedule. Instead of engaging in conversation with family members and friends while waiting to ride an attraction, today's guest would rather be playing games on their smartphones, or thanks to Disney, playing interactive queue games to create artificial entertainment that detracts from potential bonding time.

This is the nature of today's guest.

It's sad because due to this influx of change, gone are the days a family can simply go into Disney for the day and casually ride attractions, because unless its January or off-season, you would have had to plan months ahead of time. Gone are the days where an older couple could simply go to Yachtsman on a Friday night in the springtime, because that would have had to have been planned months ago.

This type of long-term vacation planning has eroded the excitement and spontaneity of the theme parks 15, 20, 30 years ago. I don't see that going away anytime soon, which is disappointing.

With a glass half full approach, it doesn't stop us from enjoying the parks the way we do. If people want to plan every second of the trip, bake in the 90+ degree heat on artificial turf, and bedazzle their magic bands, they are more than welcome. We will still casually experience the parks the way they were supposed to.

Sitting down in the shade overlooking World Showcase lagoon, riding the Peoplemover just because, enjoying time together, because in the end that's what it's supposed to be about.

 

[jakeman]

It's sad because due to this influx of change, gone are the days a family can simply go into Disney for the day and casually ride attractions, because unless its January or off-season, you would have had to plan months ahead of time. Gone are the days where an older couple could simply go to Yachtsman on a Friday night in the springtime, because that would have had to have been planned months ago.

Yachtman is available for 2 in 30 minutes from this post a 8:20 p.m. There is also availability on Friday.

As for FP+, everything but parade viewing and Mine Train are available tomorrow in MK tomorrow.

 

[VJ]

I'm pretty sure I read it on ain't it cool news or Latino review or something a little more official than this forum.

Latino Review isn't more official than this forum..or any forum, for that matter. It's a "wretched hive of scum and villainy", as it were.

 

[spacemt354]

Yachtman is available for 2 in 30 minutes from this post a 8:20 p.m. There is also availability on Friday.

As for FP+, everything but parade viewing and Mine Train are available tomorrow.

On a Monday? In the off-season? I think you're emphasizing my point.

I said Yachtsman because we had close family friends who liked to go to Yachtsman and other Disney restaurants on Friday nights throughout the year, and then walk around the parks.

They've significantly decreased their nights at WDW since MM+ because they don't have smartphones and have been turned away on multiple occasions due to tables being booked days/weeks/months in advance.

They used to talk about the simple pleasures of a night out at the Yacht Club, with their favorite waiter, Ricardo was the waiter's name I think, but they don't do it as much because now any time they want to go out it has to be planned.

Just like if they want to go this Friday, they better make that reservation and put a credit card number down so they can have a "spontaneous" night out.

 

[jakeman]

On a Monday? In the off-season? I think you're emphasizing my point.

I said Yachtsman because we had close family friends who liked to go to Yachtsman and other Disney restaurants on Friday nights throughout the year, and then walk around the parks.

They've significantly decreased their nights at WDW since MM+ because they don't have smartphones and have been turned away on multiple occasions due to tables being booked days/weeks/months in advance.

They used to talk about the simple pleasures of a night out at the Yacht Club, with their favorite waiter, Ricardo was the waiter's name I think, but they don't do it as much because now any time they want to go out it has to be planned.

Just like if they want to go this Friday, they better make that reservation and put a credit card number down so they can have a "spontaneous" night out.

What does a smartphone have to do with anything? They can call. I've been calling and making dining reservations for over 15 years.

Bottom line, there is a lot of gnashing of teeth about the lack of availability through MM+ that just isn't playing out through accessing the system on an anecdotal basis. Is there going to be less availability at certain time of the year? Absolutely, but that's not what we are seeing play out on a routine day by day basis here.

You're referring to a time that was long gone from WDW well before MM+. If you want to mourn for that time, be my guest, but target your angst appropriately. Things just didn't get booked up starting in fall of 2013.

 

[spacemt354]

What does a smartphone have to do with anything? They can call. I've been calling and making dining reservations for over 15 years.

Bottom line, there is a lot of gnashing of teeth about the lack of availability through MM+ that just isn't playing out through accessing the system on an anecdotal basis. Is there going to be less availability at certain time of the year? Absolutely, but that's not what we are seeing play out on a routine day by day basis here.

You're referring to a time that was long gone from WDW well before MM+. If you want to mourn for that time, be my guest, but target your angst appropriately. Things just didn't get booked up starting in fall of 2013.

Who's mourning for that time? All I gave was an example. It's not even about me so why are you insinuating these things? Just trying to start trouble?

How about you actually read my entire original post before commenting? Because perhaps you'll see that there was a greater point that you missed that has nothing to do with ADRs.

 

[jakeman]

Who's mourning for that time? All I gave was an example. It's not even about me so why are you insinuating these things? Just trying to start trouble?

How about you actually read my entire original post before commenting? Because perhaps you'll see that there was a greater point that you missed that has nothing to do with ADRs.

Was your point not the death of spontaneity brought on by technology?

 

[GoofGoof]

What does a smartphone have to do with anything? They can call. I've been calling and making dining reservations for over 15 years.

Bottom line, there is a lot of gnashing of teeth about the lack of availability through MM+ that just isn't playing out through accessing the system on an anecdotal basis. Is there going to be less availability at certain time of the year? Absolutely, but that's not what we are seeing play out on a routine day by day basis here.

You're referring to a time that was long gone from WDW well before MM+. If you want to mourn for that time, be my guest, but target your angst appropriately. Things just didn't get booked up starting in fall of 2013.

I think you guys are actually agreeing. If you go back to the original post you quoted, @spacemt354 said it's changing times and guest characteristics that are driving what spirit described, he wasn't blaming FP+ or current management.

While I do see your point on the lack of availability from FP+ being a bit overblown, the ADR thing is still an issue IMHO. It doesn't bother me that much since I just join the masses and book my ADRs in advance, but I can see why locals would be more upset by it since they can't get a walk up table as easily at a lot of places. I remember going to WDW 20 years ago and just going to whatever restaurant we happened to be near for dinner. It is what it is now and I don't lose sleep over it.

 

[spacemt354]

Was your point not the death of spontaneity brought on by technology?

I think you guys are actually agreeing. If you go back to the original post you quoted, @spacemt354 said it's changing times and guest characteristics that are driving what spirit described, he wasn't blaming FP+ or current management.

While I do see your point on the lack of availability from FP+ being a bit overblown, the ADR thing is still an issue IMHO. It doesn't bother me that much since I just join the masses and book my ADRs in advance, but I can see why locals would be more upset by it since they can't get a walk up table as easily at a lot of places. I remember going to WDW 20 years ago and just going to whatever restaurant we happened to be near for dinner. It is what it is now and I don't lose sleep over it.

Thanks @GoofGoof was just about to say that.

And to @jakeman , the greater point was that none of us are going to change the influx of these contemporary guest philosophies to the park. The ADR stuff you quoted was just a side comment based on stories I've heard. Not really the apex of my post.

 

[jakeman]

I think you guys are actually agreeing. If you go back to the original post you quoted, @spacemt354 said it's changing times and guest characteristics that are driving what spirit described, he wasn't blaming FP+ or current management.

While I do see your point on the lack of availability from FP+ being a bit overblown, the ADR thing is still an issue IMHO. It doesn't bother me that much since I just join the masses and book my ADRs in advance, but I can see why locals would be more upset by it since they can't get a walk up table as easily at a lot of places. I remember going to WDW 20 years ago and just going to whatever restaurant we happened to be near for dinner. It is what it is now and I don't lose sleep over it.

I guess, having been a local for some time (in the past), and someone who routinely makes last minute dining decisions at WDW I don't see it as an issue. I just checked and even at 9:00 p.m. more than 40% of the restaurants at Disney are still showing availability. Tomorrow almost 80% are available at dinner.

The days of walking up and getting what you want are almost a generation old now.

 

[spacemt354]

I guess, having been a local for some time, and someone who routinely makes last minute dining decisions at WDW I don't see it as an issue. I just checked and even at 9:00 p.m. more than 40% of the restaurants at Disney are still showing availability. Tomorrow almost 80% are available at dinner.

The days of walking up and getting what you want are almost a generation old now.

Right, but isn't today Monday? And tomorrow Tuesday. More people eat out on weekends than at the beginning of the week.

Plus it's also the last few weeks of April. The grace period between Easter break and the start of summer vacation. Not a crowded time of year.

 

[GoofGoof]

I guess, having been a local for some time, and someone who routinely makes last minute dining decisions at WDW I don't see it as an issue. I just checked and even at 9:00 p.m. more than 40% of the restaurants at Disney are still showing availability. Tomorrow almost 80% are available at dinner.

The days of walking up and getting what you want are almost a generation old now.

You won't go hungry at WDW if you don't have an ADR and there are still some places that almost always have availability, but if you actually want to eat in the other 60% of places you're sometimes out of luck. I don't disagree that the old way is a generation old now...the good old days.

 

[spacemt354]

I don't disagree that the old way is a generation old now...the good old days.

And that was exactly my original point. It's gone. Today, there is a new philosophy. Which is why in a sense jakeman is agreeing with me.

 

[jakeman]

Right, but isn't today Monday? And tomorrow Tuesday. More people eat out on weekends than at the beginning of the week.

Plus it's also the last few weeks of April. The grace period between Easter break and the start of summer vacation. Not a crowded time of year.

That's an excuse. You (plural) can't ride the horse of "no availability" and then wave off facts just because they don't match your hypothesis. There is either a dearth of availability or it's not the issue it's being made out to be.

The Friday of Memorial Day weekend is showing 75% availability. Almost exactly a month away.

I'm not trying to pick a fight, but the consistent data just simply doesn't support the hypothesis that MM+ or ADRs are causing a lack of availability.

 

[spacemt354]

That's an excuse. You (plural) can't ride the horse of "no availability" and then wave off facts just because they don't match your hypothesis. There is either a dearth of availability or it's not the issue it's being made out to be.

The Friday of Memorial Day weekend is showing 75% availability. Almost exactly a month away.

I'm not trying to pick a fight, but the consistent data just simply doesn't support the hypothesis that MM+ or ADRs are causing a lack of availability.

I don't want to fight either, since whether you realize it or not, we are in a sense agreeing.

But since you want to use facts. Here are the actual facts...

Friday May 22, 2015

Table for 2 (All Dinner Times) - 66 available 33 unavailable = 65.6% availability (not 75%)
Table for 4 (All Dinner Times) - 67 available 32 unavailable = 67.6% availability (not 75%)
Table for 6 (All Dinner Times) - 62 available 37 unavailable = 62.6% availability (not 75%)
Table for 8 (All Dinner Times) - 53 available 46 unavailable = 53.5% availability (not 75%)

Some key features:
-Most of the available dining locations are for very early or very late dinner hours. 4pm or 9pm
-Some of the most popular restaurants are already booked.

Perhaps hyperbolic "data" and exaggerated doom to all from MM+ and ADRs lends itself to argument that has a pretty obvious answer.

The fact is... MM+/ADRs do facilitate a dearth in availability for dining at WDW. The easiness doing all of your trip from an app and the new aged technology driven guest is enthralled with this notion - hence why a month out - spots are filling up.

The flipside of this argument is there used to be a time where that didn't occur. There used to be a time where people could simply walk up to Yachtsman on a Friday and sit down to eat. That time is gone now. Either people give in and make reservations much further in advance or be faced with a greater chance for disappointment if you don't act earlier. It's that simple. There's always going to be a place to eat in WDW. Nobody is going to starve. That's extreme. The point is simply that people might just not eat where they want if they don't reserve it early.

 

[jakeman]

I don't want to fight either, since whether you realize it or not, we are in a sense agreeing.

But since you want to use facts. Here are the actual facts...

Friday May 22, 2015

Table for 2 (All Dinner Times) - 66 available 33 unavailable = 65.6% availability (not 75%)
Table for 4 (All Dinner Times) - 67 available 32 unavailable = 67.6% availability (not 75%)
Table for 6 (All Dinner Times) - 62 available 37 unavailable = 62.6% availability (not 75%)
Table for 8 (All Dinner Times) - 53 available 46 unavailable = 53.5% availability (not 75%)

Some key features:
-Most of the available dining locations are for very early or very late dinner hours. 4pm or 9pm
-Some of the most popular restaurants are already booked.

Perhaps hyperbolic "data" and exaggerated doom to all from MM+ and ADRs lends itself to argument that has a pretty obvious answer.

The fact is... MM+/ADRs do facilitate a dearth in availability for dining at WDW. The easiness doing all of your trip from an app and the new aged technology driven guest is enthralled with this notion - hence why a month out - spots are filling up.

The flipside of this argument is there used to be a time where that didn't occur. There used to be a time where people could simply walk up to Yachtsman on a Friday and sit down to eat. That time is gone now. Either people give in and make reservations much further in advance or be faced with a greater chance for disappointment if you don't act earlier. It's that simple. There's always going to be a place to eat in WDW. Nobody is going to starve. That's extreme. The point is simply that people might just not eat where they want if they don't reserve it early.

It's interesting that 66 out of 99 restaurants on a holiday weekend is considered a dearth.

 

[TalkingHead]

Funny how the Fast Company thread has devolved into pages of discussion over Diet Coke and dozens of "joke" posts. So I'll mention this here as well since that thread seems to be a lost cause.

I thought it was strange how many people thought the article was open to interpretation.

If you go back and look at the post that promoted the article, this is how the article is spun by Fast Company:

But the truth is, this is how innovation happens. The scale of MyMagic+ was indeed massive, as are many projects developed at innovative companies. Yet rarely do we get such an intimate look into how that creative process actually works.

We need not fault Disney for the internal culture that you'll read about tomorrow, because that culture ultimately delivered.

What we should take away from the story is one truth: Innovation is messy. Anytime you read yet another squeaky-clean founder's myth in the self-aggrandizing startup world, look to our story tomorrow as a testament of how real innovation happens.

Lest you think the article is critical of Disney's corporate culture, it's in fact promoting MM+ as a messy success story.

Small wonder that Disney provided unprecedented access for the article's author.