A Spirited Perfect Ten

[ford91exploder]

I think the wide open areas in New Fantasyland partially address this regarding the fireworks, but the hub has always been a gathering point for fireworks. The park icon is typically a great way of framing those fireworks.

Yes that's indeed true But If you had show elements which could only be seen from specific lands you would distribute the crowds and encourage people to make MULTIPLE visits.

 

[ParentsOf4]

I think the wide open areas in New Fantasyland partially address this regarding the fireworks, but the hub has always been a gathering point for fireworks. The park icon is typically a great way of framing those fireworks.

Here's a crazy idea that everyone will hate.

Why not move Wishes to the World Showcase at Epcot?

 

[ford91exploder]

Per the bolded, that's kind've his legacy around here (ALSO see his regurgitation of the word "Drunkytown")

Also a Google Search for "Drunkytown" brings up the following top two results

1 - Washington DC
2 http://forums.wdwmagic.com/threads/food-wine-festival-drunkytown.875315/

 

[ford91exploder]

Here's a crazy idea that everyone will hate.

Why not move the fireworks to the World Showcase at Epcot?

They have one already RoE, The main plaza of EPCOT would be better as they have the space.

 

[PhotoDave219]

I think the wide open areas in New Fantasyland partially address this regarding the fireworks, but the hub has always been a gathering point for fireworks. The park icon is typically a great way of framing those fireworks.

Realistically though, can they do that today with the increased crowds and fireworks?

First, fireworks never used to be a nightly thing until the past 20 years or so. They were a weekend thing for ages.

Now the fireworks standing in new fantasyland, I dig it. Feels like fireworks in the round all the time.

I do like the way The castle has always framed the fireworks. And I am looking forward to seeing the hub firsthand.... I just wish it wAs real grass.

 

[PhotoDave219]

Also a Google Search for "Drunkytown" brings up the following top two results

1 - Washington DC
2 http://forums.wdwmagic.com/threads/food-wine-festival-drunkytown.875315/

And this is something we're going to disagree on. I feel you've blown this out of proportion ad nauseum. Because its misrepresentative of the current situation.

Whether you agree or not, alcohol is served at Epcot. Some adults choose to imbibe, some don't. Some choose to drink too much and that's their fault for being unable to be a responsible adult. I'm not going to fault Disney for people's inability to be a grown-up.

Alcohol was served in Walt's own office. I have no problem with it at the "adult" theme park.

 

[RSoxNo1]

Here's a crazy idea that everyone will hate.

Why not move Wishes to the World Showcase at Epcot?

Even with Illuminations, the Earth globe is an icon of sorts. Aside from maybe Tom Sawyer's Island, there really isn't a better spot to be centered for the MK fireworks. As @ford91exploder said though, adding effects elsewhere during the show could help further spread the crowds.

Also, I just realized that you're username is ford91exploder and not ford91explorer.

 

[CDavid]

A well manicured lawn is also impossible to maintain if it's going to have foot traffic. You had the following options.

1. Status quo. Lots of real grass and narrow paths that become a cluster of humanity every night and downright dangerous during things like MNSSHP, 24-hour parties, Christmas/Easter/New Year's, etc.

2. Leave small quantities of real grass and create huge, wide paths. The Hub actually does become a "concrete wasteland."

3. Allow foot traffic on the real grass. In about three days the entire Hub becomes a mud pit.

4. Install some artificial grass alongside some natural vegetation and new fountains. Add walkways, but maintain an overall "green" vibe. Artificial grass serves as a congestion release valve during crowded times.

Given those options, I can't fathom how anyone thinks that anything other than #4 would have been a correct decision. I get the preference for natural grass and I share that preference. But my preference for not being pressed up against a smelly guy while trying to exit the Magic Kingdom takes precedence.

Obviously, there were more than four options (think outside the box, or perhaps outside the hub). I'll grant you what was done may well have been the most practical solution which didn't either carry an extravagant cost or require a major re-think of shows, parades, and fireworks, but that doesn't make it the best (or ideal) remedy.

Have any of you actually been and spent more than 5 minutes in the new sections of the Hub? A concrete wasteland it's not. I stand by what I said. The Hub is looking better than it has in a long time, and if you can't see that then there is something wrong.

Just because someone holds a differing opinion doesn't mean "there is something wrong" (with them or their viewpoint). As others have noted, the hub "looking better than it has in a long time" may well be equally true with "the hub looks far worse and less attractive than it once did".

I mean- everyone here has been to Magic Kingdom the past year or 2, right? The hub is a nightmare easily a half dozen times a day- something had to happen- that we should be able to agree on. So instead of everyone whining and complaining, please tell me how you would have done it better.

This isn't the forum for armchair imagineering, but essentially you need fewer people occupying the hub (standing/sitting or passing through), at least during peak periods.

So- reread what I said- and then reread what Captain said- he gave 4 alternatives, and this was the best one

The best solution of the four listed, but not necessarily the best possible solution from all possible alternatives.

Before:
View attachment 88635

after:
View attachment 88637

I hadn't seen a recent 'after' picture. If I'm honest, worse than I expected. If you can honestly say that the current hub looks better and is more thematically and aesthetically appropriate than the original, then you may apply the 'doom & gloom' label to my post(s).

I have to say yes it is better.... People are actually enjoying the space and the openness.... If it was just concrete and not allowed to walk on it then we would have an issue but this area is actually usable and enjoyable space!

Sure, it is greater usable space, but there are other (critical) considerations in theme park design beyond open, available space which have been compromised by this more spacious design.

 

[spacemt354]

In my OPINION it's never looked worse, Just because something is NEW does not necessarily mean it's improved, At EPCOT in the 80's they had lighting and sound towers which retracted when not in use, In the NEW hub they just stand there as monuments to bad show.

The trash receptacles which once were unique to WDW have now been replaced by plain brown ones I can buy from the Grainger catalog, Please tell me how this is an improvement, Perhaps we should be thankful that they are not rusty and have peeling paint?.

Why are you tangentially arguing something that's not even relevant?

You're entitled to your opinion, but that doesn't change the fact that the functionality of the area has improved in its condition compared to a few years ago. Whether or not you find it aesthetically pleasing is a different argument, one of which I would think a 'middle ground' member would not have such a negative perspective on.

Yeah things have 'NEVER BEEN BETTER and EVERYTHING IS WONDERFUL' at WDW.

Who is saying these things? You put this in quotes but who are you quoting?

 

[Phil12]

The live action version of Mulan just got announced. I wonder if this is Disney's New attempt to break into the Chinese market.

I hope Ronda Rousey gets to play Mulan.

 

[WildcatDen]

Dyed red hair, Israeli looks and 7.62mm Full Metal Jacket does tend to grab a guys ____________.

Well, now then. . . would you say she was mocking your "Palestinian" state?

 

[NearTheEars]

I can agree with the bolded part....with a caveat.
It doesn't look better than it has ever.

Nothing is/will be better than the tree-filled park like setting that the hub once had.

I wish they would have gone with a design that featured a half circle of mature trees with a small opening at MSUSA and the wide opening facing the castle and the central hub featuring some grassy areas and planters with smaller trees.

That way, from view the train station, the Castle would still have that layer of trees in front. And once you leave MSUSA it would open up into a nice courtyard-like hub that would still work well with projection shows and fireworks.

The new hub is pretty and has made a HUGE difference in traffic flow from my observations on the past two Saturdays.

The original hub will likely always have been the most beautiful, but the new hub will be the most functional IMO of course.

 

[Lee]

Realistically though, can they do that today with the increased crowds and fireworks?

At some point they need to consider capping capacity at a level where guest experience isn't sacrificed.
The fireworks looked just fine for all those years that trees were in the hub.

 

[NearTheEars]

Even with Illuminations, they Earth globe is an icon of sorts. Aside from maybe Tom Sawyer's Island, there really isn't a better spot to be centered for the MK fireworks. As @ford91exploder said though, adding effects elsewhere during the show could help further spread the crowds.

Also, I just realized that you're username is ford91exploder and not ford91explorer.

Mind blown.
I read it the same way, and I always assumed he was just really proud of his 1991 Ford SUV.

Likely because it was back when the company was still run up to Henry Ford's standards, when maintenance was superb, design was beautiful and they delivered plussed new models on a yearly basis.

 

[hopemax]

Ever since the uncentered window in New Orleans Square appeared with the Club 33 redo, I have a new design scale. If the project was presented to be graded in a school of design, what grade do I think it would get?

I see the Hub and I think the instructors would see something uninspired and commonplace and therefore would be C effort. Form does not have to be sacrificed for functionality, and I bet that is taught in design schools the world over. I don't think the people who approved this, think that guests "wouldn't even notice the difference," and so that makes it a double failure in my eyes.

Extremely talented artists created the original, and this comes along to reveal how truly talented they were. And I think it's sad that Disney doesn't attract or cultivate that type of talent anymore.

 

[Lucky]

I'd have kept the trees and made that the special Wishes viewing area for people with iPads.

 

[WildcatDen]

Hence one of my jokes about them desperately trying to overuse the "Disney is a business"

Mr Chavez, I do not want to defend the defenceless, but let's have this "But UNI is a business and they still build" argument when UNI has 4 theme parks, 2 water parks and comparable hotel capacity.

 

[WildcatDen]

Truth hurts.

The park experience has been degraded severely over the last 10 years, And its been 9 years since WDW built it's last E-ticket and 23 years since the last one at MK, Yeah things have 'NEVER BEEN BETTER and EVERYTHING IS WONDERFUL' at WDW.

That is why I am amazed it continues to hold the top spot in attendance. Why is that? Familiarity? Nostalgia? Turkey Legs? As an Ohioan, I have no reason to come back until Avatar opens. If we head south sooner it will be to see Diagon Alley. That said, if we head back prior to 2017, WDW wilk get the bulk of our days. Hmmm.

 

[Goofyernmost]

Obviously, there were more than four options (think outside the box, or perhaps outside the hub). I'll grant you what was done may well have been the most practical solution which didn't either carry an extravagant cost or require a major re-think of shows, parades, and fireworks, but that doesn't make it the best (or ideal) remedy.

Just because someone holds a differing opinion doesn't mean "there is something wrong" (with them or their viewpoint). As others have noted, the hub "looking better than it has in a long time" may well be equally true with "the hub looks far worse and less attractive than it once did".

This isn't the forum for armchair imagineering, but essentially you need fewer people occupying the hub (standing/sitting or passing through), at least during peak periods.

The best solution of the four listed, but not necessarily the best possible solution from all possible alternatives.

I hadn't seen a recent 'after' picture. If I'm honest, worse than I expected. If you can honestly say that the current hub looks better and is more thematically and aesthetically appropriate than the original, then you may apply the 'doom & gloom' label to my post(s).

Sure, it is greater usable space, but there are other (critical) considerations in theme park design beyond open, available space which have been compromised by this more spacious design.

I've seen a number of European Castles and almost all of them have had a large frontage with gardens and fountains, grassy areas, etc. Why would anyone want to hide the beauty of a castle. Trees are everywhere, Castles are few and far between. It is so like the designs of the massive castles in Europe that it is, for the first time since it was built, properly themed. No amount of negative opinions will change that nor will it change the fact that some people like it and some don't. It is totally a matter of preference. If you like it... you can't be wrong. If you don't like it... you can't be wrong. What you can be wrong about is if it fits into the scheme of things properly... which it does. Or whether or not you personally like it. The second matters only to whomever holds that everything should conform to their own personal likes or dislikes. Let's face it... They ain't gonna change it no matter how many tears one sheds or how much b itching one does.

At some point they need to consider capping capacity at a level where guest experience isn't sacrificed.
The fireworks looked just fine for all those years that trees were in the hub.

So you're saying that people should be denied access to seeing the shows because you and your friends want to see trees instead? Go for a walk in the forest, there are plenty of trees there. Very few Castles or Fireworks/Projection shows though.

Come on Lee, you know as well as I do that this change enhances the view of the fireworks, but, that isn't why the money was spent on it. It was for safety and for the projections on the Castle.

Fireworks could always be viewed by looking up in the sky. Unless Disney had planted Redwoods in the Hub, that wasn't the issue. For once they have done a beautiful job designing and did not spare any expense to upgrade it. But, everyone is so intent on not letting go of the past that they cannot see the gem that it is.

Yes, That is my opinion, so therefore it cannot be wrong, to me, at least. However, what a tremendous waste of energy and time to not at least try and find the nice part of it. They can always put trees back in if they find that it was not necessary to remove them, (not gonna happen until they decide that they no longer are going to do castle projections, BTW) Why not just be happy that something that is replaceable (trees) were taken out instead of a classic attraction never to be seen again. This seems like such picky stuff to be name calling and get ones panties in a knot over. Oh, yea... one other thing. Wait until the d amn thing is done before passing judgment. That would also be helpful.

 

[Cesar R M]

They just need some mobile trees that they can roll off stage for an hour every night.

...mobile..trees...

Here's a crazy idea that everyone will hate.

Why not move Wishes to the World Showcase at Epcot?

rereads twice... wishes. to epcot..

wait.. what?