A Spirited Perfect Ten

wogwog

Well-Known Member
We were only served the chicken, steak, and shrimp. I guess turkey was removed based on what people are saying here but isn't there also supposed to be pork? We never even got that. To be honest we barely got the other three since the servers didn't come by all that frequently.

Everyone in my party agreed it was a huge step down from the last time we visited a few years ago and a ridicolus downgrade from the 90s. Seriously if some of you had the chance to visit Ohana (or anywhere in Walt Disney world) in the early 90s. You would be furious with how far Disney standards and quality have fallen at the resort.
You were served every entrée they currently offer. Pork is gone. I agree it is an example of another down grade from the past. I have friends visiting in a few weeks with Ohana reservations. I have not been there in a year or so and have warned them to lower their expectations.
 

GoofGoof

Premium Member
Spirited Grog Grotto Thought:

Sorry, supposed Poly fanbois, you can't have it both ways. You can't rip Disney for ripping out a fundamental piece of the lobby to make it plainer, blander, and large enough to drive a parade of ECVs through at the same time as wetting yourself over the opening of a tiki bar, let alone one that partially 'pays homage' to yet another original part of WDW that was closed, left to rot for a decade and a half and then replaced with a glorified kiddie land.

It's just one of many things that so many WDW fans, especially the younger crowd seems to miss the point of.

And that leads to my next point ... and post ...
I think it's fair to think the lobby is horrendous but still like Trader Sams. They could have kept the lobby and still built the bar. I think it replaced the arcade area or something, not the water feature. I'm not a lifestyler or even really a Poly fanboy and I don't plan to spend much time (if any) in that bar, but if I get some time away from the kids at night I might head there. I'm a big fan of the no kids after 8PM policy. I don't like the new lobby. Not a bit.
 

GoofGoof

Premium Member
Isn't pork pretty much what people think of when you hear luau?
The luau still has pork.

They removed the chicken skewers last year. That left chicken wings, beef, pork and shrimp. People complained a lot about the chicken being removed. Especially families with kids that eat chicken but maybe not pork. As a response they brought back the chicken and removed the pork. Not sure why they couldn't keep both. I'm assuming the variety of meats is selected based on guest feedback and popularity. If it was all about saving money they would have removed the beef and/or shrimp before chicken, pork or turkey.

The menu is listed online so it shouldn't be a huge surprise what's offered unless they change it up after you make a reservation.

Edit: I think the chicken replaced turkey about 5 years ago. The original lineup was beef, shrimp, turkey and pork. I don't think they ever served turkey and chicken together.
 
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LuvtheGoof

DVC Guru
Premium Member
And how do you know we have not seen it in person?. Frequently layover in MCO for an evening.
Yes, and you called it a concrete wasteland, which it most assuredly isn't. I don't think that is taking the middle ground at all. There are many plantings of shrubs, flowers, and grass, and it isn't even done yet. Disney had an issue with complete gridlock in the hub, and this was their answer. You can complain all you want, but it simply isn't going to change. Also complaining that they wouldn't have this issue if they had built lots of other attractions or night time shows at other parks is an exercise in futility. I know that you have seen first hand, as I have, the literally thousands of people streaming into the MK just prior to the fireworks. I have also seen tons of people heading into EPCOT for Illuminations as well. I for one don't believe that adding a night time show at HS would alleviate any of the grid lock in the hub during the fireworks. We all know that a fireworks show at AK should not be done due to scaring the animals, and I don't care what they come up with for a night time show, it will never compete with Wishes or Illuminations. Without a complete change in the hub, the gridlock would have continued.

Oh, and when I first went there back in the 70's, it looked very similar then because not everything had grown in yet. You might want to wait until it is complete, and grown in before completely bashing it. Oh wait, I'm sorry, you've already made up your mind, and there is obviously no changing it. :rolleyes:
 

Lee

Adventurer
So you're saying that people should be denied access to seeing the shows because you and your friends want to see trees instead? Go for a walk in the forest, there are plenty of trees there. Very few Castles or Fireworks/Projection shows though.

Come on Lee, you know as well as I do that this change enhances the view of the fireworks, but, that isn't why the money was spent on it. It was for safety and for the projections on the Castle.

Fireworks could always be viewed by looking up in the sky. Unless Disney had planted Redwoods in the Hub, that wasn't the issue. For once they have done a beautiful job designing and did not spare any expense to upgrade it. But, everyone is so intent on not letting go of the past that they cannot see the gem that it is.

Yes, That is my opinion, so therefore it cannot be wrong, to me, at least. However, what a tremendous waste of energy and time to not at least try and find the nice part of it. They can always put trees back in if they find that it was not necessary to remove them, (not gonna happen until they decide that they no longer are going to do castle projections, BTW) Why not just be happy that something that is replaceable (trees) were taken out instead of a classic attraction never to be seen again. This seems like such picky stuff to be name calling and get ones panties in a knot over. Oh, yea... one other thing. Wait until the d amn thing is done before passing judgment. That would also be helpful.
I had a long response to this in mind, but I think '74 said it better than I would have.

My point is, if the MK is now so crowded that they have started to sacrifice aesthetics, design and storytelling in order to squeeze more guests in...something is wrong.

The hub was never intended to be a theater. It was a lush, park-like transition between lands. It was beautiful.

Now, it just feels like an open performance space for parades (yawn) and castle shows. It's just...blah, to me.
They've removed all semblance of "magic" and story from the area to accommodate shows and parades. To my mind, it wasn't worth it.
 

hpyhnt 1000

Well-Known Member
I had a long response to this in mind, but I think '74 said it better than I would have.

My point is, if the MK is now so crowded that they have started to sacrifice aesthetics, design and storytelling in order to squeeze more guests in...something is wrong.

The hub was never intended to be a theater. It was a lush, park-like transition between lands. It was beautiful.

Now, it just feels like an open performance space for parades (yawn) and castle shows. It's just...blah, to me.
They've removed all semblance of "magic" and story from the area to accommodate shows and parades. To my mind, it wasn't worth it.

This!

Nearly every recent change at the Magic Kingdom has been done with the goal of cramming ever more people into the park. Second ferry dock, new bus loop, Hub changes, Main Street bypass, tree and bench removals; even the wider paths and stroller parking areas of Newish Fantasyland.

All of it has lessened the overall experience of being in the park. Details, landscaping, quiet spots and quaint features have all been lost in the name of operations and efficiency.

I mentioned this in another thread some time ago and I think it bears repeating: given its current transportation and infrastructure status, the Magic Kingdom is at full theoretical capacity (really, it reached that point about 5 million guests ago). Cramming 18 million people into that place when it was originally designed for about 10-12 million is ridiculous. And the guest experience, along with the park itself, is suffering.
 
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Goofyernmost

Well-Known Member
You had me till the last line. Because you're passing judgment on it as well, in a positive light, before its complete
Don't think so... In fact, what I have seen, in person, is pretty awesomely done. I haven't said anything about what it will end up being. Just what already is. So your last line is the truth, but, really, most of the negativism has existed basically before the first shovel of dirt was turned. And it has not budged since then. Tree's, tree's, tree's like the world has ended. No one spends over 15 minutes in the Hub during the day when there is nothing going on anyway. It just much ado about nothing. All that have made that determination of how awful it was, have not begun to see what is there. All they are focusing on is what isn't there. To bad, cause there is a lot of nice in that location, even now. So I will enjoy it while the rest mourn in their loss.
 
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dizneycrazy09

Well-Known Member
All of this HUB concrete wasteland banter is seriously starting to bring me down. I've been a faithful observer of these forums for about a decade now, and I've only just recently starting posting. After paying attention to the conversations over the last few weeks, it seems like the Doom and Gloomers are either growing in number or simply louder than ever. Personally, I come onto these forums for news and rumors and talk of what rides and attractions may bring joy to myself and my family in the future. Never in the ten years that I've been a member of this website have I seen such negativity and pessimism towards something that, at it's core, is meant to bring people happiness and joy. I understand that this a forum, and people should and could say whatever they want, but when is enough enough? We ALL get it. TONS of you have made yourselves loud and clear; you are upset with what WDW has become, and you want everyone to share in your opinion of what the parks SHOULD be. I wish WDW was different, but that doesn't mean I still don't love being there and the wonderful memories it has given me with my family. I sometimes feel like I'm an uneducated fool for even thinking that I enjoy WDW in 2015, and that's unfortunate. For the people that have clearly shown (and in some cases flat out said) that they HATE WDW now, why do you come to a WDW fan website and spew negativity? It just seems like anyone on here who likes ANYTHING that happens in WDW is immediately critisized for liking something 2015 WDW does. I just hope that people can stop making others' opinions about a new ride, show, or idea seem lesser because they may not be the same as their own. Apologies if this is off topic or preachy, but it's something I needed to say. Remember, 95% of us are here as a community because of our shared passion...

Now back to our regularly scheduled programming.
 

Goofyernmost

Well-Known Member
This is part of what bothers me so much about it. It is very European Castle-y. Which is fine for the Fantasyland part. But it also needs to be a proper fit to the edge of a New England seaside town, or on the doorstep of the future, or the last bit of civilization before departing to a hidden wilderness, or across a field away from colonial village. And at those, it fails spectacularly. It's an area of transition, so that's what it should be, not pre-Fantasyland. More subtlety in design elements, less overt.
Sorry, but Fantasyland is a land of it's own and has no connection whatsoever with the surrounding lands. You'd have one of the most foolish looking castles in the world if you tried to link it to all of those. Which, btw, was never the intent. When you leave Main Street USA, you have entered a different land... transition is the castle and it's grounds.
 

Goofyernmost

Well-Known Member
I had a long response to this in mind, but I think '74 said it better than I would have.

My point is, if the MK is now so crowded that they have started to sacrifice aesthetics, design and storytelling in order to squeeze more guests in...something is wrong.

The hub was never intended to be a theater. It was a lush, park-like transition between lands. It was beautiful.

Now, it just feels like an open performance space for parades (yawn) and castle shows. It's just...blah, to me.
They've removed all semblance of "magic" and story from the area to accommodate shows and parades. To my mind, it wasn't worth it.
Yea, well that's what success does to you. I believe that the old Disney creed had safety listed before show.
 

hpyhnt 1000

Well-Known Member
Sorry, but Fantasyland is a land of it's own and has no connection whatsoever with the surrounding lands. You'd have one of the most foolish looking castles in the world if you tried to link it to all of those. Which, btw, was never the intent. When you leave Main Street USA, you have entered a different land... transition is the castle and it's grounds.

Not sure if you are trying to say that the Hub was always part of the castle forecourt area, but it's worth mentioning that the Hub was never intended to be that. It was always meant to be its own entity, a park like setting separate from the other lands. The Hub reached into the other lands and offered a gateway into them, but was never intended to be a part of them (this includes the castle as well).

Only with this new version of the Hub has Disney made the conscious choice to tie the Hub into and with the castle. Previously, it was very much the opposite.
 

Goofyernmost

Well-Known Member
Not sure if you are trying to say that the Hub was always part of the castle forecourt area, but it's worth mentioning that the Hub was never intended to be that. It was always meant to be its own entity, a park like setting separate from the other lands. The Hub reached into the other lands and offered a gateway into them, but was never intended to be a part of them (this includes the castle as well).

Only with this new version of the Hub has Disney made the conscious choice to tie the Hub into and with the castle. Previously, it was very much the opposite.
What does it matter what it WAS! They have successfully transformed it into a fitting entrance to Fantasyland with off shoots to other lands. Man, talk about getting stuck on irrelevant past purposes. It still enters Fantasyland straight on and it still distributes people to other, non-related, lands. So it still does do what it was originally intended to do, but, with a plus, which I think that everyone agrees is from the bible according to Walt Disney. And it does so with added beauty. Please tell me what the real problem is.
 

flyerjab

Well-Known Member
I will add some anecdotal thoughts on this matter regarding the Hub.

There is a indoor shopping mall near where I live and it is as old as I am (for reference purposes, I am 45). I can always remember it being there even as a kid and it was a place where everyone went as it was the only mall nearby. This is before the wonderful golden age of the strip mall began.

The mall had a huge fountain in the center, with the only second floor section located in the atrium above the fountain. The fountain had lighting effects and it actually danced at certain times, similar to but certainly not as grand is the fountain in EPCOT. There was a restaurant that had seating inside and outside so that you could look down onto the fountain and/or people watch. It was a nice place for lunch as the restaurant had some licensing agreement whereby they had Looney Tunes animatronics and shows were put on at certain times each day. At Christmas, up and down the wings of the mall, it was decorated everywhere. They even had little village areas set up where you could walk through and look at animatronic elves and reindeer. It really was great, especially for little kids. It was THE place to go to see Santa Clause and get your photo taken. It was truly a customer focused enterprise at the time.

Switch to today. The fountain is gone and the nice restaurant with the animatronics on the second floor was gutted and replaced with a food court that sells not great food. At Christmas, the decorations have been cut back to naught, and where the fountain stood is now the - for lack of a better term - Santa meet and greet. The Christmas village that was erected was replaced with merchandise kiosks - you know, the cheap stuff that people rarely buy. And where the big fat man sits is now some cheap, two-walled structure with a fake fireplace. It is sad how this has transformed.

I am certain that this story is similar for some of you regarding your experience with WDW. This is my analogy to those that have grown up visiting WDW since the 70s and 80s. You remember when the MK, even though large, could probably almost seem intimate at times. Guests were not herded in, stuffing the park to almost insane levels of capacity. The park, and the features of the park, dominated the different lands, and things were added instead of removed; and from looking at some of the photos people have posted, the hub acted as more of a park as opposed to a large, open gathering place of worship before the castle.

Now, I will state that I don't agree with some of the opinions expressed in this thread. I have been through the finished sections of the Hub this year and I feel that it is an improvement over how it has been. The sad reality is that it will never be how it was. The economics and the cannibalistic nature of capitalism in today's society almost make certain that a Hub dominated by trees in a park like setting will never happen again. Why spend more money to make more money, when you can simply just make more money by adding more people as opposed to attractions? The Board is happy + the shareholders are happy = job well done.

It is also easy for us to sit where we are and type angry responses on a forum thread, believing that we would obviously act in a more altruistic fashion, placing guest satisfaction before the almighty dollar. I have really thought about this. If I had a business that was centered on entertainment, would I be a martyr for the guest experience? Would I be able to sit in my tower and say, 'you know, instead of making X dollars more, how about I sacrifice increased net profit so the average guest of today's society is happier, even though they seem more rude and take less pride in how they conduct themselves (on average - I know that we are all ideal park guests ;))?' It is a shame that Walt could not live forever. I never knew the man, but he really had a different set of values it would seem.

Now again, I can close by saying that I am only a visitor of WDW starting in the late 2000s. So to me, I can't sit here and castigate how WDW is now versus how it was 30 to 40 years ago, as I never experienced it. Maybe I have an advantage over some people here, as my frame of reference is recent, so I can't denigrate the company for an atmosphere I have never experienced.

Spirit stated that those that like the Hub of today don't know what they are talking about. I disagree in that I can't condemn something, not having experienced the 'great version' of several iterations ago. I only know what I know now. To me WDW is still an amazing place to visit. I guess I will be interested to see how my opinion changes in about 30 to 40 years from now.
 

GoofGoof

Premium Member
I had a long response to this in mind, but I think '74 said it better than I would have.

My point is, if the MK is now so crowded that they have started to sacrifice aesthetics, design and storytelling in order to squeeze more guests in...something is wrong.

The hub was never intended to be a theater. It was a lush, park-like transition between lands. It was beautiful.

Now, it just feels like an open performance space for parades (yawn) and castle shows. It's just...blah, to me.
They've removed all semblance of "magic" and story from the area to accommodate shows and parades. To my mind, it wasn't worth it.
This makes a lot of sense to me. Cramming more guests (and their stuff) in is common practice now. There has been a shift away from a park like setting. Really the fireworks were never an issue since you could see them from a bunch of places. Like you said, it's really the projection show that made clearing the nub necessary.

I think the reason there is some disagreement here is that some people think that the projection show and low level fireworks are worth more than the trees were as far as a theme park experience for them. Others would give up the show for a return to a park like setting.

I also think, to a lesser extent, digital cameras are part of the problem. Back in the day you experienced things and took a few pictures to memorialize your experiences. Today it seems the pictures take priority over even the experience itself sometimes. Having the trees act as a curtain that creates a reveal for the castle worked well as an experience. Now with cameras on every device and people taking thousands of pictures, that perfect shot down Main Street of the castle is more important than the reveal for some people. The photo pass people lining Main Street add to this. I'm not saying there is anything wrong with taking pictures, just that it has become a lot more prominent in Disney vacations these days.
 

sporadic

Well-Known Member
I will add some anecdotal thoughts on this matter regarding the Hub.

There is a indoor shopping mall near where I live and it is as old as I am (for reference purposes, I am 45). I can always remember it being there even as a kid and it was a place where everyone went as it was the only mall nearby. This is before the wonderful golden age of the strip mall began.

The mall had a huge fountain in the center, with the only second floor section located in the atrium above the fountain. The fountain had lighting effects and it actually danced at certain times, similar to but certainly not as grand is the fountain in EPCOT. There was a restaurant that had seating inside and outside so that you could look down onto the fountain and/or people watch. It was a nice place for lunch as the restaurant had some licensing agreement whereby they had Looney Tunes animatronics and shows were put on at certain times each day. At Christmas, up and down the wings of the mall, it was decorated everywhere. They even had little village areas set up where you could walk through and look at animatronic elves and reindeer. It really was great, especially for little kids. It was THE place to go to see Santa Clause and get your photo taken. It was truly a customer focused enterprise at the time.

Switch to today. The fountain is gone and the nice restaurant with the animatronics on the second floor was gutted and replaced with a food court that sells not great food. At Christmas, the decorations have been cut back to naught, and where the fountain stood is now the - for lack of a better term - Santa meet and greet. The Christmas village that was erected was replaced with merchandise kiosks - you know, the cheap stuff that people rarely buy. And where the big fat man sits is now some cheap, two-walled structure with a fake fireplace. It is sad how this has transformed.

Sadly, this seems to have happened everywhere. I recall the same type malls as a kid, although not as nice as the one you describe. Still however, they had water fountains, foliage, and very nice holiday decor. Great places to visit, spend the day, spend some money. Now I avoid them like the plague.
 

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