A Spirited Perfect Ten

[Cesar R M]

Even with Illuminations, they Earth globe is an icon of sorts. Aside from maybe Tom Sawyer's Island, there really isn't a better spot to be centered for the MK fireworks. As @ford91exploder said though, adding effects elsewhere during the show could help further spread the crowds.

Also, I just realized that you're username is ford91exploder and not ford91explorer.

you replied to @ParentsOf4

Why are you tangentially arguing something that's not even relevant?

You're entitled to your opinion, but that doesn't change the fact that the functionality of the area has improved in its condition compared to a few years ago. Whether or not you find it aesthetically pleasing is a different argument, one of which I would think a 'middle ground' member would not have such a negative perspective on.



Who is saying these things? You put this in quotes but who are you quoting?

ahem, quite a few people have said that the hub "never been better".

In this same thread.

 

[Cesar R M]

I'd have kept the trees and made that the special Wishes viewing area for people with iPads.

I approve this comment!
so many times our view was blocked by an idiot with his gigantic ipad trying to film everything (and he had an iphone and a camera on his neck!)

 

[Cesar R M]

Mr Chavez, I do not want to defend the defenceless, but let's have this "But UNI is a business and they still build" argument when UNI has 4 theme parks, 2 water parks and comparable hotel capacity.

They might if they keep growing and building great themed lands.

so much for Disney's "Orlando is a Mature market".

That is why I am amazed it continues to hold the top spot in attendance. Why is that? Familiarity? Nostalgia? Turkey Legs? As an Ohioan, I have no reason to come back until Avatar opens. If we head south sooner it will be to see Diagon Alley. That said, if we head back prior to 2017, WDW wilk get the bulk of our days. Hmmm.

Nostalgia and Brand Loyalty commands a huge push. Believe ir or not.
for 100 Years Disney was the brand of childhood histories and for many adult as well.

 

[spacemt354]

I've seen a number of European Castles and almost all of them have had a large frontage with gardens and fountains, grassy areas, etc. Why would anyone want to hide the beauty of a castle. Trees are everywhere, Castles are few and far between. It is so like the designs of the massive castles in Europe that it is, for the first time since it was built, properly themed. No amount of negative opinions will change that nor will it change the fact that some people like it and some don't. It is totally a matter of preference. If you like it... you can't be wrong. If you don't like it... you can't be wrong. What you can be wrong about is if it fits into the scheme of things properly... which it does. Or whether or not you personally like it. The second matters only to whomever holds that everything should conform to their own personal likes or dislikes. Let's face it... They ain't gonna change it no matter how many tears one sheds or how much b itching one does.


So you're saying that people should be denied access to seeing the shows because you and your friends want to see trees instead? Go for a walk in the forest, there are plenty of trees there. Very few Castles or Fireworks/Projection shows though.

Come on Lee, you know as well as I do that this change enhances the view of the fireworks, but, that isn't why the money was spent on it. It was for safety and for the projections on the Castle.

Fireworks could always be viewed by looking up in the sky. Unless Disney had planted Redwoods in the Hub, that wasn't the issue. For once they have done a beautiful job designing and did not spare any expense to upgrade it. But, everyone is so intent on not letting go of the past that they cannot see the gem that it is.

Yes, That is my opinion, so therefore it cannot be wrong, to me, at least. However, what a tremendous waste of energy and time to not at least try and find the nice part of it. They can always put trees back in if they find that it was not necessary to remove them, (not gonna happen until they decide that they no longer are going to do castle projections, BTW) Why not just be happy that something that is replaceable (trees) were taken out instead of a classic attraction never to be seen again. This seems like such picky stuff to be name calling and get ones panties in a knot over. Oh, yea... one other thing. Wait until the d amn thing is done before passing judgment. That would also be helpful.

You had me till the last line. Because you're passing judgment on it as well, in a positive light, before its complete

 

[hopemax]

I've seen a number of European Castles and almost all of them have had a large frontage with gardens and fountains, grassy areas, etc. Why would anyone want to hide the beauty of a castle. Trees are everywhere, Castles are few and far between. It is so like the designs of the massive castles in Europe that it is, for the first time since it was built, properly themed.

This is part of what bothers me so much about it. It is very European Castle-y. Which is fine for the Fantasyland part. But it also needs to be a proper fit to the edge of a New England seaside town, or on the doorstep of the future, or the last bit of civilization before departing to a hidden wilderness, or across a field away from colonial village. And at those, it fails spectacularly. It's an area of transition, so that's what it should be, not pre-Fantasyland. More subtlety in design elements, less overt.

 

[WDW1974]

Spirited Grog Grotto Thought:

Sorry, supposed Poly fanbois, you can't have it both ways. You can't rip Disney for ripping out a fundamental piece of the lobby to make it plainer, blander, and large enough to drive a parade of ECVs through at the same time as wetting yourself over the opening of a tiki bar, let alone one that partially 'pays homage' to yet another original part of WDW that was closed, left to rot for a decade and a half and then replaced with a glorified kiddie land.

It's just one of many things that so many WDW fans, especially the younger crowd seems to miss the point of.

And that leads to my next point ... and post ...

 

[MonkeyHead]

I visited Sam's today for th first time and I have to say I'm rather disappointed in comparison to the one at Disneyland. The one at Disneyland is understated with surprise effects. This one is extraordinarily loud and over the top - which MIGHT be fine if there weren't only five effects repeated ad nauseum with servers who are also loud and obnoxious.

Listen, I'm loud and obnoxious for a living, but this doesn't strike the right balance. It's pretty, but it just shows even further why this probably should have been a larger installation at Disney Springs. For the record, I didn't see anyone in there skimping on buying drinks.

 

[MonkeyHead]

The patio is quite nice though without any wait - and I imagine it's even nicer at night in good weather - and when what looks to be a rather large water feature is up and running.

 

[ford91exploder]

And this is something we're going to disagree on. I feel you've blown this out of proportion ad nauseum. Because its misrepresentative of the current situation.

Whether you agree or not, alcohol is served at Epcot. Some adults choose to imbibe, some don't. Some choose to drink too much and that's their fault for being unable to be a responsible adult. I'm not going to fault Disney for people's inability to be a grown-up.

Alcohol was served in Walt's own office. I have no problem with it at the "adult" theme park.

I don't disagree with serving alcohol in the parks, I disagree with continuing to serve those who are visibly intoxicated.

 

[ford91exploder]

Mind blown.
I read it the same way, and I always assumed he was just really proud of his 1991 Ford SUV.

Likely because it was back when the company was still run up to Henry Ford's standards, when maintenance was superb, design was beautiful and they delivered plussed new models on a yearly basis.

They were called 'exploders' because of the A4LD transmission in said vehicle, A device which could have come straight from Burbank as it was 'Value Engineered' - Modified with the addition of bearings where Ford used sleeves they were quite good, However this was a user side plussing. But many of us loved them anyway because we could FIX the flaws... Unlike WDW where we can just watch the place go downhill.

 

[WDW1974]

Spirited Hub Thoughts:

No, I haven't experienced it and not sure when I will. Yes, by the pics it looks nicer in some ways than what it replaced. But it in no way looks (and I'm quite sure feels) nicer than the Hub I experienced from 1974-2004 before it was destroyed.

Look, I get that the MK gets crowded. I get that sometimes it is flat out unsafe. But that tells me a few things: too many people are being allowed in or in certain areas at certain times (parade and pyro), crowd control isn't sufficient (the MK is the ONLY theme park on Earth that I have been to that uses masking tape every night as a way to direct crowds ... why not colored chalk since they often pay CMs to play with kids by writing on the walkways?) and allowing Steven Davison, no matter how talented, to run roughshod over OPs has proven to be a disaster.

And if the MK is truly so bad that an area that was fine for WDW's first almost 35 years had to basically be bulldozed, then isn't it time to rip out MSUSA at DL and simply use the open space for people to gather and ooze toward the castle?

And ... let's go back to those fanbois who think they understand themed design and operational realities because many simply are clueless on both (Am I hurting any feelings? Anyone crying yet?)

If you take the Hub on its own merits (meaning in a vacuum), then it certainly looks nice enough.

The thing is, you can't do that. So take the Hub blather down a bit, Bubs, and look at it more realistically, more holistically. Like a good designer would.

The MK was designed by great art directors. Folks who knew how to develop a narrative from a movie and theme park background with DL. The Hub was designed as a reveal. Trees were a natural, no pun intended, part of this reveal. Like a real life curtain. The shade they provided (and they certainly did that as they were real trees, not Florida strip center shrubs like the ones there now) was not only for Guest comfort and beauty, they were to partially obscure the castle, so it looked further away and drew you near, but didn't rush you down Main Street like it had no purpose for being (sadly, sorta what it is now).

It was a transition area. It wasn't part of Fantasyland. Or a pre-show for it.

Now, as soon as you hit Casey's, you are in Fantasyland. It's much like how SDL will look except there they have already removed MSUSA and added a Disney shopping zone, followed by a pre-Fantasyland that even has two staples from behind the castles elsewhere (Dumbo and the Carousel).

Again, it isn't that this new Hub looks bad. Compared to what has been there the last decade, it is a definite improvement, but one in which true theming and design takes a hit for squeezing in as many Guests as possible without actually expanding the park or using dead zones (someone discovered that Aunt Polly's actually was a QSR for decades recently and thought 'why not open this?' Imagine that?!?! Wonder if he/she got stuck on the island one night and wandered into the place and wondered what it was.)

I know we don't have Andy Castro around here, but the same things he was complaining about loudly on Micechat about NOS's recent work -- notably Club 33 -- is true of the Hub redo too: nice enough on its own merits, but absolutely doesn't seem to 'fit' with the design aesthetic from way back in 1971 when most of you weren't even alive (I was, even I was itty bitty!)

This is something you either get or you don't. It's not an opinion.

You can love this, hate it, be ambivalent and it just doesn't matter.

This is why the BAH absolutely didn't belong at TPFKaTD-MGMS and soon to be TPFKaDHS. Whether you liked it isn't important at all. It was all wrong from the most basics of design. It ruined, truly, the look of the park. Just like the giant LED Mouse Ears that some idiot at Disney proposed (no, I am not making this up!) to 'sit' on the castle for WDW's 50th don't belong (don't worry, I'm told this person was laughed down, but considering his level ... well, it never should have come up except as a bad joke!)

I'm a bit scattered right now, but I hope I am making this point crystal clear.

I'm also not one of the Spirits that says ''well, it doesn't s u c k as much as the last version, so it's OK.''

Sure, Not New Anymore Fantasyland looks better than an empty lagoon and the prior three versions of Mickey's Temporary Land, but none of them look as good as a crystal clear lagoon full of replica Nautilus subs circling with a Skyway gliding overheard volcanic rocks.

Change is fine when it improves things fundamentally. I don't think this does. A few puny fountains, fake grass, no shade and an area that will still be like an oven roughly from May until November.

 

[WDW1974]

Spirited Lifestyler Question:

Is the last Disney Lifestyler to post pics and a review of the Grog Grotto shunned from the group or voted off the island?

 

[WDW1974]

Spirited Late Night TV Musing:

The British Andy Richter is no Craig Ferguson. But CBS actually gives a damn about the 12:35 hour for the first time ever.

 

[PhotoDave219]

I don't disagree with serving alcohol in the parks, I disagree with continuing to serve those who are visibly intoxicated.

I disagree with continuing to serve those that are visibly hammered as well. And I've seen people cut off. I've seen people followed at Epcot by security. I've seen people get within an inch of being tresspassed.

I just dont think its as bad as people make it out to be.

 

[WDW1974]

Nope, no change as of now on the location of the Star Wars expansion in Anaheim.

Have I covered everything y'all have been chattering about?

Nope ... there's DAK dining.

No, Pandora isn't having a full serve restaurant. I don't believe it is getting a QSR either, but not certain. There is a weird rumour going on about the land, though, and nope I can't talk about it.

Right now, DAK certainly doesn't need additional dining locales. It might down the road, although I'm not sure of that. The park really has great food, almost on par with EPCOT, as is.

 

[NearTheEars]

They were called 'exploders' because of the A4LD transmission in said vehicle, A device which could have come straight from Burbank as it was 'Value Engineered' - Modified with the addition of bearings where Ford used sleeves they were quite good, However this was a user side plussing. But many of us loved them anyway because we could FIX the flaws... Unlike WDW where we can just watch the place go downhill.

Has anyone tried to get a tool box through bag check yet?

 

[NearTheEars]

Spirited Hub Thoughts:

No, I haven't experienced it and not sure when I will. Yes, by the pics it looks nicer in some ways than what it replaced. But it in no way looks (and I'm quite sure feels) nicer than the Hub I experienced from 1974-2004 before it was destroyed.

Look, I get that the MK gets crowded. I get that sometimes it is flat out unsafe. But that tells me a few things: too many people are being allowed in or in certain areas at certain times (parade and pyro), crowd control isn't sufficient (the MK is the ONLY theme park on Earth that I have been to that uses masking tape every night as a way to direct crowds ... why not colored chalk since they often pay CMs to play with kids by writing on the walkways?) and allowing Steven Davison, no matter how talented, to run roughshod over OPs has proven to be a disaster.

And if the MK is truly so bad that an area that was fine for WDW's first almost 35 years had to basically be bulldozed, then isn't it time to rip out MSUSA at DL and simply use the open space for people to gather and ooze toward the castle?

And ... let's go back to those fanbois who think they understand themed design and operational realities because many simply are clueless on both ( am I hurting any feelings? anyone crying yet?)

If you take the Hub on its own merits (meaning in a vacuum), then it certainly looks nice enough.

The thing is, you can't do that. So take the Hub blather down a bit, Bubs, and look at it more realistically, more holistically. Like a good designer would.

The MK was designed by great art directors. Folks who knew how to develop a narrative from a movie and theme park background with DL. The Hub was designed as reveal. Trees were a natural, no pun intended, part of this reveal. Like a real life curtain. The shade they provided (and they certainly did that as they were real trees, not Florida strip center shrubs like the ones there now) was not only for Guest comfort and beauty, they were to partially obscure the castle, so it looked further away and drew you near, but didn't rush you down Main Street like it had no purpose for being (sadly, sorta what it is now).

It was a transition area. It wasn't part of Fantasyland. Or a pre-show for it.

Now, as soon as you hit Casey's, you are in Fantasyland. It's much like how SDL will look except there they have already removed MSUSA and added a Disney shopping zone, followed by a pre-Fantasyland that even has two staples from behind the castles elsewhere (Dumbo and the Carousel).

Again, it isn't that this new Hub looks bad. Compared to what has been there the last decade, it is a definite improvement, but one in which true theming and design takes a hit for squeezing in as many Guests as possible without actually expanding the park or using dead zones (someone discovered that Aunt Polly's actually was a QSR for decades recently and thought 'why not open this?' ... imagine that?!)

I know we don't have Andy Castro around here, but the same things he was complaining about loudly on Micechat about NOS's recent work is true of the Hub redo too: nice enough on its own merits, but absolutely doesn't seem to 'fit' with the design aesthetic from way back in 1971 when most of you weren't even alive (I was, even I was itty bitty!)

This is something you either get or you don't. It's not an opinion. You can love this, hate it, be ambivalent and it just doesn't matter. This is why the BAH absolutely didn't belong at TPFKaTD-MGMS and soon to be TPFKaDHS. Whether you liked it isn't important at all. It was all wrong from the most basics of design. It ruined, truly, the look of the park. Just like the giant LED Mouse Ears that some idiot at Disney proposed (no, I am not making this up!) to 'sit' on the castle for WDW's 50th don't belong (don't worry, I'm told this person was laughed down, but considering his level ... well, it never should have come up except as bad joke!)

I'm a bit scattered right now, but I hope I am making this point crystal clear.

I'm also not one of the Spirits that says ''well, it doesn't s u c k as much as the last version, so it's OK.''

Sure, Not New Anymore Fantasyland looks better than an empty lagoon and the prior three versions of Mickey's Temporary Land, but none of them look as good as a crystal clear lagoon full of replica Nautilus subs circling with a Skyway gliding overheard volcanic rocks.

Change is fine when it improves things fundamentally. I don't think this does. A few puny fountains, fake grass, no shade and an area that will still be like an oven roughly from May until November.

I would hope that even the most pixie dusted of us would not try to say New Hub > Old Hub aesthetically.

I've only experienced the modern hub 2010-present, but photos of the original speak for themselves.

But with current MK attendance, parades and projection shows and management, it would never work.

It was quite nice the past 2 Saturdays being able to use the outer ring to bypass the crowds. But that's all about function.

 

[Captain Neo]

I think Ohana is down to 3 meats

As far as the new hub my old pal Scarlett gave me the best reason to plan a visit to WDW based on the new design.

We were only served the chicken, steak, and shrimp. I guess turkey was removed based on what people are saying here but isn't there also supposed to be pork? We never even got that. To be honest we barely got the other three since the servers didn't come by all that frequently.

Everyone in my party agreed it was a huge step down from the last time we visited a few years ago and a ridicolus downgrade from the 90s. Seriously if some of you had the chance to visit Ohana (or anywhere in Walt Disney world) in the early 90s. You would be furious with how far Disney standards and quality have fallen at the resort.

 

[PREMiERdrum]

We were only served the chicken, steak, and shrimp. I guess turkey was removed based on what people are saying here but isn't there also supposed to be pork? We never even got that. To be honest we barely got the other three since the servers didn't come by all that frequently.

I thought that the sesame wings had replaced the chicken skewers, with Steak, Pork, and Shrimp remaining on the sticks.

Everyone in my party agreed it was a huge step down from the last time we visited a few years ago and a ridicolus downgrade from the 90s. Seriously if some of you had the chance to visit Ohana (or anywhere in Walt Disney world) in the early 90s. You would be furious with how far Disney standards and quality have fallen at the resort.

Preach.

 

[CaptainAmerica]

There is a weird rumour going on about the land, though, and nope I can't talk about it.

Good weird? Bad weird? Weird weird?