A Spirited Perfect Ten

MichWolv

Born Modest. Wore Off.
Premium Member
Ouch - I am sorry to hear that a LOT of good people got caught in the downdraft from AA which ruined a lot of careers from your posts I'm sure you are one of the good guys. Are large public accounting firms systemically corrupt - no absolutely not but there is too little accountability built into the US corporate governance system so there is little downside to large scale fraud.

In my opinion there are advantages that would accrue to the investor if the audit process for public companies were more of an adversarial process.

Well, I certainly think I'm one of the good guys!

The US corporate governance system does indeed have too little accountability. I have been part of efforts to improve it. As you might imagine, there is resistance, for both good and bad reasons.

Making the process "adversarial" is not exactly the right word, though. Using that word and mindset would encourage companies to hide things from the auditor. After all, they're the "adversary". Independent is the right word and mindset -- achieving it is the goal. Having auditors randomly assigned (or assigned by some supreme body) would achieve independence, but possibly at the cost of competence. Auditors find mistakes in year 4 of auditing a company that they missed in years 1-3. They find them because they came to know more and more about the company each year, eventually realizing something we wish they realized in year 1. If we force frequent changes in auditors, I don't know whether the increased independence offsets the decreased knowledge. My gut says yes, but my experiences say (Lee Corso voice), "Not so fast, my friend."
 

Bolna

Well-Known Member
Do you think it would have been more successful in Germany where there is an established market for theme parks, The choice of Paris always seemed a bit odd to me.

There is no established market for theme parks in Germany. Or at least there was not in the 1980 when Euro Disney was being planned. And in 1980 Germany was at the end of what the Western World knew as Europe. For all commercial purposes the continent ended at the Iron curtain. It would have been ridiculous to build a theme park in Germany at that time that was more than a regional and seasonal park.

Even Germany's largest park Europapark is still a regional and seasonal park. And it only became what it is now because the Mack family realised how they could make the Euro Disney resort model work in a European context and they grew organically.
 

WildcatDen

Well-Known Member
OK. I apologize if this has already been discussed, but looking at my generic Disney Parks Mug travel cup, I have made a rather interesting discovery. Our fine feathered friend Donald is topless while wearing swim trunks. In every other picture I have of him, he is wearing a top but no pants or shorts. Is that is one confused Duck or some weak attempt at exhibitionism?
 

Bolna

Well-Known Member
If I am not mistaken the original plans for Euro Disney would have put the park somewhere in Spain!

Spain had a site that was considered. Ultimately Paris made the most sense as it has perfect transportation links to most of Western Europe at that time. With Southern England, the Paris area, the Netherlands and Belgium and the Ruhr area in Germany, a large amount of people is really not far away at all. Also the French government wanted to develope the area outside of Paris and Disney got a fantastic deal. Euro Disney is not only a theme park, but also in the business of property development.
 

BrerJon

Well-Known Member
If I am not mistaken the original plans for Euro Disney would have put the park somewhere in Spain!

Spain might actually have been a better choice. The weather is consistently sunny, which makes it far more appealing - Paris in the winter is pretty miserable, and I'm sure this impacts attendance.

One of the reasons so many UK travellers prefer a 9 hour flight to Orlando over a 2 hour train journey to Paris is because the weather is so much nicer in Florida, as it would be in Spain. Not to mention that cheap flights and a well worn tourist route means a Spanish resort would have been just as accessible - more so for many countries.
 

Eric1955

Well-Known Member
Spain might actually have been a better choice. The weather is consistently sunny, which makes it far more appealing - Paris in the winter is pretty miserable, and I'm sure this impacts attendance.

One of the reasons so many UK travellers prefer a 9 hour flight to Orlando over a 2 hour train journey to Paris is because the weather is so much nicer in Florida, as it would be in Spain. Not to mention that cheap flights and a well worn tourist route means a Spanish resort would have been just as accessible - more so for many countries.

Tony Baxter has said he thinks that Southern France around Nice would have been a better location than Paris.
 

Nubs70

Well-Known Member
Spain had a site that was considered. Ultimately Paris made the most sense as it has perfect transportation links to most of Western Europe at that time. With Southern England, the Paris area, the Netherlands and Belgium and the Ruhr area in Germany, a large amount of people is really not far away at all. Also the French government wanted to develope the area outside of Paris and Disney got a fantastic deal. Euro Disney is not only a theme park, but also in the business of property development.
Being that, at the time in 1980, Paris was basically the geographical center of capitalist Europe. Additionally, the line of defense in Germany was the Rhein River. If bad things happened, geography east of the Rhein would be let go.
 

Bolna

Well-Known Member
Spain might actually have been a better choice. The weather is consistently sunny, which makes it far more appealing - Paris in the winter is pretty miserable, and I'm sure this impacts attendance.

One of the reasons so many UK travellers prefer a 9 hour flight to Orlando over a 2 hour train journey to Paris is because the weather is so much nicer in Florida, as it would be in Spain. Not to mention that cheap flights and a well worn tourist route means a Spanish resort would have been just as accessible - more so for many countries.

My last post on this topic: the Spain of today is not comparable to the Spain of the 80s when the decision on location was being made. Spain was not a democracy until after the dictator Franco died in 1975. After his death Spain transformed to a modern state, but that took time. It did not become a member of the EU until 1982. In a way you could say that the Spain of the 80s is the Bulgaria of today. Could you see anyone considering building a Disney resort in Bulgaria?

And also in the 80s air travel was far more exclusive and expensive than it is today. My first flight to the USA in 1985 was with a special youth discount and it cost over 1500 DM (not inflation adjusted, actual price printed on my ticket) that's about 750 €. It was considered a deal at the time. I can still fly for less to the USA today, 30 years later!
 

ParentsOf4

Well-Known Member
Since we're posting random links to articles, the following Motley Fool article came across my desk.

http://www.fool.com/investing/gener...w-theme-park-delayed-and-over-budget-but.aspx

And since we don't know how long that one will last :D, I'll include the text here:

Disney's New Theme Park: Delayed and Over-Budget, But More Amazing Than Ever

While U.S. theme parks drove most of The Walt Disney Co. (NYSE: DIS ) theme park segment growth in 2014, investors have been waiting for 2015 -- the year Disney's largest theme park to date, located in mainland China, was initially set to open. Some investors hoped Disney's release of Star Wars VII would accompany the park's opening in 2015 to cap off another widely successful year.

Now, the park is over-budget (at a current $5.5 billion compared to the original $4 billion estimate), and the company announced that its grand opening will be delayed until 2016.

So, in a world where time equals money, does this mean I should worry about my investment in Disney and the success of its new park? Not a chance.

Still an incredible new park

Disney's Shanghai resort has about 8,000 people involved in its construction, which covers nearly 1000 acres (about 4 square kilometers). The park will have a typical Magic Kingdom-style theme park, but is also said to feature the largest main princess castle of any Disney resort yet.

"The artistry, complexity, the magnitude and the detail, it's all quite astonishing," said Disney CEO Bob Iger, speaking about Shanghai Disney Resort.

The resort will also include multiple hotels (one is expected to boast a Toy Story theme, a first of its kind), as well as other retail, dining, and entertainment venues in a classic "Disneytown" area for families to enjoy during times when they are not in the theme park itself. The resort will even include a more formal Broadway-style theater and other outdoor venues to draw other shows, artists, and attractions to its site.

Still in time for a record breaking 2016

Even with a delayed opening, the park is expected to break visitation records. Disney Shanghai will likely host more visitors than Disney's biggest park to date, Magic Kingdom in Orlando, Florida. The anticipated annual number of guests to this Shanghai park is 25 million, compared to about the 20 million expected for Magic Kingdom in Florida.

And because Disney still plans to open the park by February 2016, which is just in time for the high tourism season surrounding Chinese New Year, Disney Shanghai's grand opening could garner even more publicity that will serve it well the rest of the year.

Still the first to open in Mainland China

Disney is not that only company looking to make a major opening in the Mainland Chinese market. Both Comcast (NASDAQ: CMCSA ) and DreamWorks Animation (NASDAQ: DWA ) are also planning to push their own brands in this vast and growing market with future theme parks.

DreamWorks Animation is involved in a joint venture with Chinese partners called Oriental Dreamworks, which includes plans for opening a theme-park-like set of studios and attractions called DreamCenter, also outside of Shanghai. There has been little public mention of this plan, however, and at the earliest, Oriental DreamWorks' DreamCenter would open later in 2017.

Comcast-owned Universal Studios has already broken ground on its own theme park near Beijing, too. This park will rival Disney Shanghai by size and investment, and the characters under Universal Studios brand such as Transformers, already have strong brand awareness in China. However, plans for this park indicate its scheduled opening is set for 2019, giving Disney Shanghai the advantage of establishing itself first without much competition.

Even after the announcement that Disney Shanghai is more expensive than expected and scheduled to open later than anticipated, investors can rest assured that the park looks more amazing than ever, will likely boast record-setting visitation numbers, and will still open years ahead of these competitors. Despite some hiccups along the way, this park is still one reason long-term Disney shareholders can be excited.
I'm pretty sure this one won't get deleted.

Any chance this was rushed out to counter the "other" deleted article? ;)
 

Phil12

Well-Known Member
So why hasn't this made Gawker or something like that? This kind of stuff would be a journalist's wet dream I'd think. Big CEO using his wife to censor a critical article would be a big story.
I agree. It seems to me that if this story has legs, it will resurface in the press. Also, let's see if the author blogs about the topic in another venue. If I was the author I would be seeking some clarification about why the articles were spiked in order to vindicate my reputation. I also wonder if the HuffPost was fooled by an imposter.
 

Cesar R M

Well-Known Member
That's amazing that they're predicting more people will visit Shanghai Disneyland in its first year than Magic Kingdom. I wonder how many discounts, deals and freebies they'll have to run to materialise those numbers?
I honestly wonder more on the satisfaction levels and connections.

Chinese might just go there to check what the hype is about. just like they flocked by a lot to apple products (causing an active black market of importers)
 

GoofGoof

Premium Member
Since I was an Arthur Andersen partner, I know too much about that situation to comment directly.

However, I can promise you that even large audit firms say "no" to clients all the time. As I said, I'm aware of it happening twice this morning.

As for "go along to get along", it depends on the role the CPA is filling. A CPA acting as an independent auditor, of course, should not do that. And in my experience (which, I assure you, is vast), it does not happen most of the time, much of the time, or even a significant minority of the time. Sadly, it does happen now and then. And when it does, it can be disastrous.
About 10 years ago I worked for a company emerging from bankruptcy. Our pre-bankruptcy auditors "fired" us as a client. Too much risk. We were turned down by all but one of the other big firms. It's not at all uncommon (especially after Enron) for firms to be selective of which clients they take on.
 
This isn't the case with Brazil. Given the Brazilian economy, the price difference between a trip to Orlando and a trip to a Brazil park would be vast, almost certainly making a big dent in the Orlando trade. I'd hate to be the owner of the fluorescent T-shirt stand in the Premium Outlets if that happened.

I guess that might be my point, though, in that if it's such a large difference in price, imagine how large the attendance in Brazil could be if a larger percentage of Brazilians/South Americans could now afford to go on a Disney vacation. In the short term, the impact might hurt margins on WDW, but overall gross profit would go up with the added park.
 

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