A Spirited Perfect Ten

sshindel

sshindel

The Epcot Manifesto
BrerJon said:
Or do you think that most guests find them very clean and great value for money? I guess everyone has different mileage on that one.
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Personally, I agree more on the hotel value than the attractions. I've not personally seen maintenance issues on the scale that I feel, for my dollar, that I could spend an equal amount on an alternative destination or event and come close to the experience I have at WDW.
The value rooms, while not worth my vacation dollars unless massively discounted, have more to offer guests than a Motel 6 when you look at the entire grounds and amenities.
I don't feel they are worth the money for myself, but, to answer your question, I really feel like the general public, by and large, are extremely happy with the product WDW offers. If they were not, we'll see it in the attendance and guest spending.
 
BrerJon

BrerJon

Well-Known Member
hakunamatata said:
I'm confused. When did motel 6 start offering Disney themed rooms within the boundaries of WDW?
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Not within the boundaries of WDW but plenty of motels in Kissimmee offer travel time to the parks less than the Disney buses do from the All-Stars with rooms at a far cheaper price (even when you include the taxi fare). Most first time guests don't compare the cost of a value to a moderate, they compare it to the hotel a few minutes further away that's a third of the price.

You got me on the Disney theming though, no towel animals at Motel 6 but I could buy a Disney plush each day with the money saved and stick that on the bed instead.
 
GymLeaderPhil

GymLeaderPhil

Well-Known Member
BrianLo said:
That Huffington Post Article you were all discussing has been removed... curious...

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/p/editors-note2192015.html?1424379765

Anyone have a copy I can read somewhere?
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Yes

Disney CEO Fumbles Entry to China
Posted: 02/18/2015 4:45 pm EST

Sorry Mickey, they're just not that into you. Minnie, you either.

For that matter, you can take the whole stable -- the "Fab Five" of Walt Disney's animated creations -- and, despite a media machine that churns a very different story, China has largely been a land where the fabled wishes, dreams and magic of the Walt Disney Company and its brand have virtually no connection with the consumer. As valued as that consumer is in the economic theater of globalism, the iconic brand synonymous with America has little appeal and less traction among the newly seated audience in the Chinese mainland.

To its 'vanilla on toothpaste' helmsman, Robert A. "Bob" Iger, who has shown himself to be an able cobbler of assets but a less than visionary leader of the media colossus that is the Walt Disney Company, this troubling if known and growing headwind threatens to undermine the content-heavy but culturally aloof purveyor of demographically unshackled product. For in his zeal to expand its library of content, Bob Iger has drop-kicked the Disney moniker to enter new and expanding marketplaces only to position a product that runs well afar of the expectation of the Disney bounce.

In so doing, the once unrivaled status of the Disney brand has become a catch-all for entertainment and its associated byproducts that are increasingly a strange and sometimes conflicted ragbag of franchised acquisitions presented as some sort of media mélange for all ages and all palates. Or, as John Dreyer, the longtime and immediate past head of corporate communications for the Walt Disney Company, said upon the publication of the column Disney CEO Readies Magic Carpet for Exit, "Disney losing its Disney way."

With the company making its grandest play for a market that dwarfs all others, Disney has found itself adrift in a crisis of identity that breaches the foundation of the castle upon which an empire was built. For as turrets were raised, wings were added and a moat of meticulously positioned whimsy was filled in to expand the Disney footprint, something that looks decidedly more pedestrian than the fantastical inspiration for one of the world's most coveted brands has emerged.

Leverage has become the arch of entry into the Disney-verse, while the brand has been marginalized into a holding vehicle for assets that are worth more separately than that vested in the castle itself.

As Mr. Iger said at the 2013 Fortune Global Forum held in Chengdu:

I think the first thing you have to do is you have to obviously be aware of what your most significant brand attributes are. What makes your brand your brand? Why is it great? You have to focus on quality and on those attributes that, again, created the value in the first place. You can't look to cut corners. You can't look to make something with your brand on it that's any cheaper simply because it's going into a market that may not be able to afford it the way another market may have. You can't compromise in that regard. So it starts with what I'll call quality and a respect for an allegiance to the very brand attributes that created the value in the first place.

Now, considering Shanghai Disney is preparing to make its 2016 debut as Disney's first foray into the renminbi rich Chinese mainland after a less than stellar arrival in the former British colony of Hong Kong in 2005, there are lessons aplenty to learn from that delayed embrace and the long stalled entry into the single largest consumer market on offer to the world -- the whole of China.

Under Mr. Iger's stewarding, Disney has partnered with the Shanghai Shendi Group, an umbrella name placed on a panoply of government-owned companies created to facilitate Western investment as a massive anti-graft campaign is just now rattling Beijing and beyond, to introduce a Disney 'branded' park to those consumers. A flag in the ground for Disney. A flag that has been in the works since the prime of Michael Eisner's reign at Disney and one that nearly collapsed entirely by the summer of 2006.

Indeed, Mr. Iger had to leave the annual Herb Allen retreat for media moguls, tech tycoons and other scripters of society in Sun Valley for an unscheduled trip to Shanghai that day in 2006, scrambling to save face and leading to a denouement worthy of great scrutiny by any company -- especially those entities whose trade is in intellectual property -- wanting to enter China.

Or, as Dalian Wanda Group Chairman Wang Jianlin, whose real estate and entertainment empire is building its North American headquarters adjacent to the Beverly Hilton at 9900 Wilshire Boulevard in Beverly Hills, said on the same panel at the Fortune Global Forum:

[W]e have so many Western companies in China, but you cannot simply replicate the Western ideas and philosophies in China. They need to adapt to the Chinese realities... So for Fortune 500 companies in China it's very important, it's imperative for them to learn traditional culture in China and how is it interrelated with the modern business culture.

Curiously though, the world beyond the berm is told the 330 million or so Chinese within a three-hour trip to the site on the other side of Shanghai's Pudong International Airport cannot wait to queue up for a boat ride on "It's a small world" or whatever Disney is offering up for its reported $5.5 billion marker. As, no, there will apparently be no attraction of that name at Shanghai Disneyland.

Not in China. Not in a country where Mickey, Minne and the rest of the gang are barely known. In a country where Disney might as well be Smith or Jones or Johnson. Well, maybe not that last one as Johnson & Johnson is actually a reasonably well-known brand throughout China.

The Walt Disney Company has a history of stumbling if not outright tumbling in its efforts to export Disney's brand of Americana. For reference, look no further than Euro Disney -- now known as Disneyland Paris -- and Hong Kong Disneyland. Of the latter, it is worth note that Disney has been known to Hongkongers from the early days of the Disney Brothers Cartoon Studio. Yet, to this day, with a direct link by MTR line to points throughout Hong Kong, Disney is barely able to keep up with the brand devoid, geographically hemmed in and animal exhibit heavy Ocean Park in Aberdeen.

Over lunch earlier this month at Neptune's in the Grand Aquarium, Ocean Park Hong Kong CEO Tom Mehrmann, who began his career as a street sweeper at Knott's Berry Farm just up the road from Walt's original Disneyland, said, "Disney still has to explain to some of its guests exactly what a 'Disney Park' is. We don't have that problem."

To further illustrate this point, visit Disney's outpost on Lantau, a parcel of reclaimed land near Hong Kong International Airport, and you will notice a different Disney. Some call it 'Disney-lite'. Others refer to it as 'McKingdom'. Regardless, there is a definite feel of a diminished product -- of a diminished brand -- on stage for the public's consumption.

For, on a spit of land with an audience topping seven million attached by subway line having a familiarity and a kinship with the West, sits the real experiment of Disney's entry into the Chinese market. And there, on a recent day, at a performance of The Lion King in a theater designed for Disney's Animal Kingdom in Orlando dropped into the Walt Disney Company's first Disney branded park in China, the actors sought to lead the audience in a rendition of the hit tune from this classic of Disney's second golden age of animation: Hakuna Matata.

Hakuna Matata.
What a wonderful phrase.
Hakuna matata.
Ain't no passing craze.
It means no worries.
For the rest of your days.
It's a problem free philosophy.
Hakuna matata.

Arms raised high in the air, cast members -- on stage and off -- encouraged the capacity crowd to sing the infectious chorus. With lyrics blasting through the speakers and flashing on screens in the theater, they sought a simple singalong to the catchy and commercial hit written by Elton John and Tim Rice. Unmoved, the audience sat stone-faced. Child and adult alike.

Considering most individuals reading this are likely humming the tune or hearing it play as part of the soundtrack of their lives, that speaks poorly of Disney's penetration into the far less foreign landscape of Hong Kong. As for Shanghai, Mr. Iger continued on at the conference in Chengdu:

We're a brand that is viewed as good for me and good for my family. There are values to the Disney brand and what it stands for that have interested people all over the world. But, it's very, very important that while we bring Disney to a market we make sure that in that market it feels like, for instance, China's Disney.

In leaving the park on that recent evening, the dressed by and for Disney MTR cars filled with tired visitors exposed to, saturated in, that which is the Disney Parks experience offered up in Hong Kong. Looking to the left, to the right, all around, not one visitor had that uniquely American rite of passage positioned upon their head. Mickey ears. Not one.

And, in the second largest market for its product and the largest consumer market on the planet, Disney's Frozen, the highest grossing animated film ever having delivered over $1.27 billion in ticket sales and the fifth-highest grossing film of all time, earned little more than $48 million. Less than four percent of its global box office.

Welcome to China, Bob.

Gary Snyder is a member of the Redstone family, whose company, National Amusements, owns Viacom and CBS, among other media assets. He is an advisor on Western media and culture to China.
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the.dreamfinder

the.dreamfinder

Well-Known Member
While the thread has been mostly on topic today and I don't want to be the one to derail it...
JESUS DISNEY WHAT DID YOU DO TO MICKEY!!!
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thehowiet

thehowiet

Wilson King of Prussia
BrerJon said:
Not within the boundaries of WDW but plenty of motels in Kissimmee offer travel time to the parks less than the Disney buses do from the All-Stars with rooms at a far cheaper price (even when you include the taxi fare). Most first time guests don't compare the cost of a value to a moderate, they compare it to the hotel a few minutes further away that's a third of the price.

You got me on the Disney theming though, no towel animals at Motel 6 but I could buy a Disney plush each day with the money saved and stick that on the bed instead.
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Not to mention that Disney and others use the word "theming" a little too liberally for my tastes when talking about the value resorts. Decorated, absolutely..themed, not so much IMO.
 
Goofyernmost

Goofyernmost

Well-Known Member
BrerJon said:
I'm exaggerrating a little sure but I definitely get the feeling that - depending on maintenance standards - MK can get very dirty, compared to what it used to be like, or compared to Anaheim or Tokyo, and whether it's actual carnival rides like Toy Story Playland, Chester and Hester, double Dumbo or the Magic Carpets, kiddie coasters like the Mine Train or neglected and broken shells of former greatness like Pirates, many of the rides don't exactly offer a unique and high quality experience either.

As for the hotel rooms, the All-Star rooms don't really offer anything a Motel 6 room doesn't, but when you pay three times the price, I bet some guests expect a bit more when they arrive.

Basically my point is the WDW of 2015 is rarely a four star quality experience, yet it charges four star prices to people who don't know better, and it's that disconnect between the price paid and the experience received that can often make guests do strange things.

Or do you think that most guests find them very clean and great value for money? I guess everyone has different mileage on that one.
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On one level you are correct. Now try having 40,000 slobs a day go tramping through your house and tell me how clean it stays, no matter how hard you try.

I also wonder about those rides that you listed. Dumbo... really? Should children not be considered at all? And having ridden the 7DMT just last week, I want to tell you that although short it is not a ride that any "kiddie" would do well on without an adult. Again except for the duration (which I'm pretty sure is longer then RcRC) it is not a kiddie ride and the intensity, although not through the roof, is on the same scale as BTMR and the swaying cars do add to it by quite a bit. I looked at a lot of things in the past week. Things that have been repeatedly been cited and complained about by all the gloom and doomers that frequent the boards. I looked for lights that were out, couldn't find any. I looked for ride components that weren't working. I found a couple, but, none that even slightly diminished the quality or overall enjoyment of it. I rode, in the front seat of Pirates and had the mist with the pirate, saw the swimming mermaids, got splashed on the drop, did not get held up even at unload and it was a busy day. Now out of all those things I will concede that even though I didn't get "soaked", I did get splashed more then I think is reasonable. Now for those with the argument that "it's a boat ride", so is Small World and I don't expect to get wet on it nor after all these years of operation do I expect to on Pirates. The public isn't laughing and reacting like they do on Splash mountain and Kali River. It is something that absolutely should not be happening on Pirates and hopefully with the six month rehab that is scheduled for it that problem will be fixed. We will have to wait to see on that one.

Other then that. The parks were exceptionally clean, I saw custodial crews everywhere I looked, with their white uniforms, brooms and dust pans and they were working. There were wonderful looking flower beds and well groomed trees and grass. I found the restrooms to be clean (not that I used everyone of them) and I too, because of an injury need to sit to get my knee and hip to stop hurting and never failed to find a place to do so.

Having just been there I am calling BS on a whole lot of the garbage that is being tossed about in some sort of righteous anger that is unjustified. I will also remind everyone that I am not a newbie, all smitten with bright lights along with smoke and mirrors. I have been going there for 31 years, as an adult, and I cannot remember a time, sans current construction projects, that WDW has looked better. It is possible that Disney has gotten the message because it sure seems different to me even down to the attitudes of the CM which has greatly improved.

It makes me sometimes wonder if those that are the most vocal about this stuff have been there lately or are they latching onto the perceptions of others as if they could not be wrong. Let me tell you it has been a long time coming that Disney actually got off their bonus enlarged rear-ends and decided to do something for the parks. Let's at least acknowledge what they are doing and not bury it under a pile of unsubstantiated verbiage designed to make themselves seem more knowledgeable then everyone else.
 
JediMasterMatt

JediMasterMatt

Well-Known Member
TP2000 said:
They do corral about seven or eight benches into one spoke on the north side of the Hub for handicapped seating for fireworks. But the majority of Hub benches stay where they are for fireworks. I'm not sure why it would be a problem if people sit on them, even if they do want to sit there for an hour before the parade or fireworks start. If that's how those folks want to spend their Disneyland day, so be it. Less folks in front of me in line, I say.

There's also several patios with dozens and dozens of tables around Disneyland's Hub, with great fireworks viewing. That's the tiny Castle peeking between the two trees here. And look, even more benches in the walkways! Don't tell Orlando!
Outdoor-seating-Jolly-Holiday.jpg
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Re: the Disneyland crowd control patterns and the benches for fireworks and parades. I can unfortunately provide more info than any one person that doesn't work at the park can rightfully claim as I need to be hip to the whole process for my photography hobby at the parks.

For parades they will have the benches south of the Partners statue available for disability. They take up the entire south spoke exit between the center ring of the hub and the outer edge. Sometimes, they will use the northern exit for VIP seating; but, that is only when necessary.

For fireworks, it's a bit more variable based on the number of guest in the park and the number of Cast Members available for crowd control. The "normal" setup is to use the northern exit of the Hub w/benches for VIP only. Disability usually will go to the right path heading for Fantasyland. They do occasionally do "alternate" crowd control based on the above conditions where the allow VIP and disability into the northern exit of the Hub and let the guests go all the way to the ropes in the Castle forecourt as long as the ones on the sidewalk remain seated. *The best time for photography.

For the Magic Kingdom - no benches and just a complete mess usually in terms of what to expect. It has a lot to do with the particular Cast Members in that zone as to what they expect. With the Hub refurb project, it's a nightmare.
 

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