A Spirited Perfect Ten

Phil12

Well-Known Member
Claiming to have been at Hong Kong Disney and witnessing an apathetic audience response to Hakuna Matata and that no one was wearing Mickey Ears is a bit different than what Williams did.
True. After all he's a blogger therefore anything he says is suspect. I'm not at all sure what his motives may have been. I have to wonder why the HuffPost allowed a blogger to write a feature article in the first place. Therefore I have to question their motives as well. If this was the NYT or any other legitimate newspaper I'd want some answers. However, since it's the HuffPost, I don't consider it to be anything other than sloppy work. Let's wait and see if a respected journalist picks up on this story.
 

englanddg

One Little Spark...
True. After all he's a blogger therefore anything he says is suspect. I'm not at all sure what his motives may have been. I have to wonder why the HuffPost allowed a blogger to write a feature article in the first place. Therefore I have to question their motives as well. If this was the NYT or any other legitimate newspaper I'd want some answers. However, since it's the HuffPost, I don't consider it to be anything other than sloppy work. Let's wait and see if a respected journalist picks up on this story.
I wouldn't call the tone of that article "journalism". It's op ed, or at best "business analysis", but it is certainly not written (nor do I get the impression the author intended it) to be a factual report.

The "story", to me, is why the article got pulled, and the circumstances involved. And, it would be extremely interesting to find that out.
 

Lee

Adventurer
If anyone went to the Brian Williams school of narcissism, it's Bob "lemme throw my wife's credibility under the bus to protect my rep" Iger.
I think that's huge.
As important as I feel the original article was, the fact Bob had Willow get it killed....that's news. That's kinda huge, I think.
The "story", to me, is why the article got pulled, and the circumstances involved. And, it would be extremely interesting to find that out.
Exactly. Personal reasons...business reasons...whichever. He clearly doesn't want it read.
Now...I want everyone to read it.
 

WDW1974

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
Two distinctly different cases.
Japan sought out a Disney park. The characters and brand were very well known there, as was the Japanese love of western pop culture. And, of course, those aren't Disney's parks in Tokyo.

China...very different. There you have Disney trying to establish a market for its brand where one didn't previously exist at the level it did in Japan. Much more of an uphill battle, and one frought with pitfalls.

I think so many Americans simply fall into grouping Asian nations together and not realizing how different things can be. Even in China ... or should I say the four nation-states that make up China (mainland, Hong Kong, Macau and Taiwan).

But, yes, even back in the 70s, the Japanese loved Disney and were very familiar with the IP. When TDL opened it was even more Americanized than it is today. Much more English in the attractions and only one restaurant that served local cuisine.

China, in some ways, might as well be Mars or Uranus. Films weren't shown for many years. There is no Disney Channel (something Bob bungled badly in the negotiations and wanted desperately). The Disney Store is making its debut in Shanghai later this year, but the characters are not particularly known or loved.

I've spent many days at HKDL and watched people. Many seem to know the characters, but many do not. Even ones that have been around longer than I have!

The proper way to build a market is to go in slowly and make yourself known on a much smaller level. For almost a decade now, Disney has run ads over in China to educated people on what a Disney park is and how you're supposed to enjoy it.

The disconnect is still there. And if it's in HK, well, you d@mn well know it's in Shanghai.
 

steve2wdw

WDW Fan Since 1973
My high school alma mater (way up here in Maine), now has over 150 international students, in dorms and home stay programs. Over half are from China. My daughter has two 16 year old girls, one from Thailand, the other from China (Dalian-across the East China Sea from Beijing) living with her in home-stay. While the girl from Bangkok knows "some" of the Disney characters (she knows Mickey and Minnie, but didn't know they were Disney-and didn't know what Disney actually was), the student from China really didn't know Disney at all-never heard of Mickey or Walt-and only thought she may have heard of Frozen. They both did ask if Hello Kitty was Disney. "Houston, I think we have a problem"
 
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the.dreamfinder

Well-Known Member
lucy-football.jpg
 

WDW1974

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
Tokyo's doing fine, it's just that Disney only receives a licensing fee from the Oriental Land Company and the Japanese have a long embedded attachment to Disney. Not the Disney BRAND, but the movies, the characters, the songs and most importantly the values. To the average Chinese consumer, their first exposure to Disney is BRANDED merchandising, not going to see a great Disney movie and falling in love with the story, the characters, and the songs. When you have no context there is no, how you say, MAGIC.

Yes, exactly.

And when your first context is a theme park/resort, well, you can't expect people to feel that MAGIC. You want to establish a beachhead? You don't do it by invading, which is akin to what SDL represents. You build BRAND awareness and appreciation.
 

Creathir

Well-Known Member
Yes, exactly.

And when your first context is a theme park/resort, well, you can't expect people to feel that MAGIC. You want to establish a beachhead? You don't do it by invading, which is akin to what SDL represents. You build BRAND awareness and appreciation.
Isn't some of the political constraints what leads to an inability for a company like Disney to make great strides there? I would think the PRC would not look kindly on fanciful messages of underdogs overcoming avercity of "evil" as is seen in most Disney animations.

The core values are just completely different from what they are wanting their public to consume, so doesn't that make organic brand awareness a long uphill battle?
 

WDW1974

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
In many Communist countries, "Disney" is synonymous with American values and culture. The majority of Red China doesn't have a nostalgic love for all things Mickey Mouse.

Edit: The barrier is the reason analysts questioned Shanghai DL back when it was announced. Hong Kong DL is successful because Hong Kong is a westernized country, but the tiny park still doesn't compare to the wildly popular Tokyo resort.

I wouldn't call it a ''westernized country'' ... it is a former British colony that exists as an SAR (Special Administrative Region) of the People's Republic of China. It is very much an east meets west place, which is why I love it. But it is getting more Chinese all the time and many ex-pats have been fleeing in the almost two decades since the handover.

HKDL is getting more successful simply because it's finally adding major attractions every year and has great seasonal celebrations (they have one for Lunar New Year now). They are well under way with talks on a second park as well as major expansion to the existing one.
 

WDW1974

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
Now the Streisand effect will kick in because it's gone, Shows that Iger still does not get the Interwebz thing, Before it was simply a hit piece, now it's a legend 'what was so important the HuffPo pulled it'.

This may be the BEST post on this whole topic.

For a guy who is supposed to be so smart, so savvy, so better than all of us, he doesn't even get basic concepts now that he just empowered the writer by telling people ''there's nothing to look at here folks, move along'' ... Tell me, how does that usually play out in life? The story would likely have been dead in 48-72 hours except, perhaps, in places like Wall Street lunches and forums like this. Now?

So, he's a big tech guy and he knows about as much about technology and social media as he does about operating in China. Yep. He's worth every penny. Remember: Star Wars Land coming in 2098!
 

MerlinTheGoat

Well-Known Member
I feel compelled to pipe in here because I worked for the company seven years and just returned from a trip yesterday.

WDW is definitely being improved in many areas. Is it the "best it's ever been"? No. That honor belongs to the late 80s and early 90s, when each year welcomed multiple blockbuster attractions and maintenance was at an all-time high. (D-MGM, Norway, WoL Pavilion, Splash, AE, fully functioning EPCOT Center, fully functioning MK, Spectromagic, PI, various resorts—Great Scott!)

But last week, WDW was shining like it hasn't for over a decade. Animatronics were moving smoothly. The new-ish FoF day parade is fantastic. Overall maintenance (except for IASW) was superb. I contend that with its short ride time, SDMT is dangerously a near-miss; but its atmosphere is worthy of TDS, and the kiddie coaster will be more enjoyable when the initial hype wears off and it doesn't command two-hour waits. I couldn't be happier to see the BAH come down. The updated Illuminations is better than any other Disney night show, including World of Color. My heavily discounted room at the Boardwalk was in good shape.

The entire resort is not falling apart like it was a few years ago. Things are definitely on an upswing. I agree with @Goofyernmost that WDW is acting like a world-class resort again. He still needs some scrubbing, but Mickey is finally getting a much-needed bath.
My impressions of the parks from my visit a couple of months ago (early October) was considerably different. I visited MK and Epcot only (didn't have tine for the other two). Some things have improved, others have gotten worse than i've ever seen them. The new attractions are still in pretty good condition overall, particularly Mine Train which is still a very recent attraction. As they should be, I expect them to look at least somewhat decent for the first year or two. Give it a few years and we'll see what condition New Fantasyland is in (the facial projections worry me). I did already have one complaint with Mermaid that wasn't technically show related (though it kind of matters particularly in this case)- the air conditioning was almost nonexistent. I had heard complaining about this, but didn't understand how bad it was until an unpleasantly sweltering ride on it (the first time I rode it). It's awful, hope they change their tune before the weather heats up again.

Other rides were far more mixed. Splash Mountain and Spaceship Earth are the oddball outliers of quality, both were in very good condition overall last time I rode. Splash has remained in pretty good condition since its big refurb a few years ago, we'll see how long it stays that way (generally only one or two animatronics work inconsistently). Other rides were much more negative. Pirates was in pretty dire condition, I gather this is still the case now (it's supposed to get a big refurb soon, we'll see what happens). Big Thunder was in better condition than last time I rode a few years back (it got a moderate refurb since), but the waterfall was off on the first lift and the third lift is in pitiful shape. Spirit said we'd probably get Disneyland's new effects sometime this year but we'll see what happens.

Main Street is looking pretty nice from the outside. They've started adding new LED trim lighting starting at the Crystal Palace section (the rest of the buildings still appear to have traditional incandescent), hopefully it will lead to fewer broken lights. I stayed at the park until the lights started coming on at dusk to see what they looked like. The quality of the LED lights are quite good, but a number of the new bulbs were already not working. I have to wonder what's going on when relatively brand new LED's are already apparently broken (they can easily last for decades of even constant use provided they're built with decent quality materials). I can't figure out why they were out, unless each light can be switched on individually and they weren't all on yet or if they've deliberately switched some of them off to pinch pennies (an already pathetic excuse that becomes even more ridiculous considering how little LED's cost to run).

Grand Floridian's trim lighting situation looks awful. Only Narcoosies' trim lights were functioning, the rest of the resort was entirely dark. Looked terrible a few years ago, looks far worse now.

I've noticed a huge drop in cleanliness in the bathrooms. I mentioned this a while back and I apologize if this is too much information, but food poisoning caused me frequent visits during my trip. In the past (2012 and prior) it was common for cast members to constantly patrol the bathrooms and keep them clean. My most recent trip however I spotted no cast members in ANY of the bathrooms. There was a perpetual and growing amount of filth and stench inside and in the general vicinity around the MK bathrooms. Even the new ones at Gaston's and the Tangled area were filthy, several stalls were unusable and remained uncleaned throughout my time there. The one near guest services on Main Street was particularly nasty, and the stink carried to the upper seating area at the train station. Future World's bathrooms weren't as bad, but most of the crowds were at World Showcase and I didn't visit the bathrooms there.

Except for SSE, EPCOT wasn't in very good condition from my visit. Caught a final ride on Maelstrom shortly before its closure, it was in AWFUL condition. The building i'm guessing has been leaking for some time, there was mold and water damage on the walls, carpet and other elements (there was black mold visible on the ceiling a few years back until they replaced the white ceiling tiles with black ones which mask the issue). Several AA's weren't moving (including the troll before the drop). Guess they had just given up on keeping the ride up in recent years and didn't bother since it was closing. Living With The Land has gotten far worse since 2012, most of the AA's were either non-moving or only slightly moving (particularly the buffalo and ALL of rainforest animals). The doors separating the farm scenes and the greenhouse were non working and left constantly open. Soarin's film quality has been awful for years, it still looks terrible and desperately needs help. Test Track I believe is supposed to have some fog effects during one of the scenes that is already broken. I didn't ride Universe of Energy, but there was a topic recently that stated some of the AA's were missing.

I'm considering a visit either this month or next month (though we'll see, things often get in the way). I'll see if any of the issues I had have been fixed yet.
 
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Bolna

Well-Known Member
For almost a decade now, Disney has run ads over in China to educated people on what a Disney park is and how you're supposed to enjoy it.

Well, I think they just about started to succeed with that education process here in Europe with regard to Disneyland Paris a few years ago. And they had a totally different background to work with: generations who grew up with Disney comics that are wildly popular in most of Europe. But I always felt that at DLP there was a disconnect, less enthusiasm. In recent years I have found that the atmosphere changed, mainly thanks to a new generation of CMs and guests who actually grew up with visiting DLP as kids.

I always thought that one of the reasons why Euro Disney had such difficulties in the beginning was because they did not take the way Europeans vacation into account. The idea of an incredible expensive short trip was something very uncommon in the 1990s. People were frugal with their vacation money and rather took longer, less expensive vacations. Seems like they have not learned enough from their mistakes in Europe.
 

The Empress Lilly

Well-Known Member
Well, I think they just about started to succeed with that education process here in Europe with regard to Disneyland Paris a few years ago. And they had a totally different background to work with: generations who grew up with Disney comics that are wildly popular in most of Europe. But I always felt that at DLP there was a disconnect, less enthusiasm. In recent years I have found that the atmosphere changed, mainly thanks to a new generation of CMs and guests who actually grew up with visiting DLP as kids.

I always thought that one of the reasons why Euro Disney had such difficulties in the beginning was because they did not take the way Europeans vacation into account. The idea of an incredible expensive short trip was something very uncommon in the 1990s. People were frugal with their vacation money and rather took longer, less expensive vacations. Seems like they have not learned enough from their mistakes in Europe.
Ah yes, well spotted, an obscure fact that Disney has never paid any attention too.

If you grew up in Northern Europe, or in Italy, in the last decades of the 20th century, you grew up reading Donald Duck comics. This is, maybe was, the main connection to Disney for European kids, for generations. Yet DLP has never acknowledged it. We all wanted to see Donald, and the nephews, and Scrooge McDuck*, and they were nowhere represented.


* And not as a m&g, that bast ard child spawned of the digital camera, celeb, selfie, and special snowflake culture.
 

tirian

Well-Known Member
This makes me question whether or not things were in good condition simply because execs have been in WDW over the last month.


My impressions of the parks from my visit a couple of months ago (early October) was considerably different. I visited MK and Epcot only (didn't have tine for the other two). Some things have improved, others have gotten worse than i've ever seen them. The new attractions are still in pretty good condition overall, particularly Mine Train which is still a very recent attraction. As they should be, I expect them to look at least somewhat decent for the first year or two. Give it a few years and we'll see what condition New Fantasyland is in (the facial projections worry me). I did already have one complaint with Mermaid that wasn't technically show related (though it kind of matters particularly in this case)- the air conditioning was almost nonexistent. I had heard complaining about this, but didn't understand how bad it was until an unpleasantly sweltering ride on it (the first time I rode it). It's awful, hope they change their tune before the weather heats up again.

Other rides were far more mixed. Splash Mountain and Spaceship Earth are the oddball outliers of quality, both were in very good condition overall last time I rode. Splash has remained in pretty good condition since its big refurb a few years ago, we'll see how long it stays that way (generally only one or two animatronics work inconsistently). Other rides were much more negative. Pirates was in pretty dire condition, I gather this is still the case now (it's supposed to get a big refurb soon, we'll see what happens). Big Thunder was in better condition than last time I rode a few years back (it got a moderate refurb since), but the waterfall was off on the first lift and the third lift is in pitiful shape. Spirit said we'd probably get Disneyland's new effects sometime this year but we'll see what happens.

Main Street is looking pretty nice from the outside. They've started adding new LED trim lighting starting at the Crystal Palace section (the rest of the buildings still appear to have traditional incandescent), hopefully it will lead to fewer broken lights. I stayed at the park until the lights started coming on at dusk to see what they looked like. The quality of the LED lights are quite good, but a number of the new bulbs were already not working. I have to wonder what's going on when relatively brand new LED's are already apparently broken (they can easily last for decades of even constant use provided they're built with decent quality materials). I can't figure out why they were out, unless each light can be switched on individually and they weren't all on yet or if they've deliberately switched some of them off to pinch pennies (an already pathetic excuse that becomes even more ridiculously considering how little LED's cost to run).

Grand Floridian's trim lighting situation looks awful. Only Narcoosies had a substantial amount of trim lights functioning, the rest of the resort was almost entirely dark. Looked terrible a few years ago, looks far worse now.

I've noticed a huge drop in cleanliness in the bathrooms. I mentioned this a while back and I apologize if this is too much information, but food poisoning caused me frequent visits during my trip. In the past (2012 and prior) it was common for cast members to constantly patrol the bathrooms and keep them clean. My most recent trip however I spotted no cast members in ANY of the bathrooms. There was a perpetual amount and growing amount of filth and stench inside and in the general vicinity around at the MK bathrooms. Even the new ones around Gaston's and the Tangled area were very dirty, several stalls were unusable and remained uncleaned throughout my time there. The one near guest services on Main Street was particularly nasty, and the stink carried to the upper seating area at the train station. Future World's bathrooms weren't as bad, but most of the crowds were at World Showcase and I didn't visit the bathrooms there.

Except for SSE, EPCOT wasn't in very good condition from my visit. Caught a final ride on Maelstrom shortly before its closure, it was in AWFUL condition. The building i'm guessing has been leaking for some time, there was mold and water damage on the walls, carpet and other elements (there was black mold visible on the ceiling a few years back until they replaced the white ceiling tiles with black ones which mask the issue). Several AA's weren't moving (including the troll before the drop). Guess they had just given up on keeping the ride up in recent years and didn't bother since it was closing. Living With The Land has gotten far worse since 2012, most of the AA's were either non-moving or only slightly moving (particularly the buffalo and ALL of rainforest animals). The doors separating the farm scenes and the greenhouse were non working and left constantly open. Soarin's film quality has been awful for years, it still looks terrible and desperately needs help. Test Track I believe is supposed to have some fog effects during one of the scenes that is already broken. I didn't ride Universe of Energy, but there was a topic recently that stated some of the AA's were missing.

I'm considering a visit either this month or next month (though we'll see, things often get in the way). I'll see if any of the issues I had have been fixed yet.
 
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tirian

Well-Known Member
Ha. That's what I get for posting a message while watching TV—I call Hong Kong a "country." I meant it was under the rule of a western country (Great Britain).

Move along, there's nothing to see.

I wouldn't call it a ''westernized country'' ... it is a former British colony that exists as an SAR (Special Administrative Region) of the People's Republic of China. It is very much an east meets west place, which is why I love it. But it is getting more Chinese all the time and many ex-pats have been fleeing in the almost two decades since the handover.

HKDL is getting more successful simply because it's finally adding major attractions every year and has great seasonal celebrations (they have one for Lunar New Year now). They are well under way with talks on a second park as well as major expansion to the existing one.
 

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