A Spirited Perfect Ten

Rodan75

Well-Known Member
From today.

When you run a multi billion dollar brand and miss the mark on the world's largest consumer market...

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/gary-snyder/disney-ceo-fumbles-entry-to-china_b_6682090.html

Iger might believe Shanghai will be his theme park legacy but Parks & Resorts' international revenue expansion has slowed under Iger, growing at an anemic 3.5% over the last 3 fiscal years. Fiscal year 2015 has started off even worse, with international revenue flat.

Rather than build a head of steam, Disney's overseas properties have stalled as the Disney brand fails to gain traction. As the article states, "The Walt Disney Company has a history of stumbling if not outright tumbling in its efforts to export Disney's brand of Americana."

It's a pity all that money is being invested in China and France rather than domestically where North & South American consumers continue to feast on Disney products. :(

So while I think the criticisms of TWDC actions in China are justified, is anyone else curious why a member of the Redstone family, owners of Viacom (one of Disney's chief media competitors - to be clear) would be so interested in publishing OpEd's criticizing Iger? AND the logic he uses is line with folks on the board, which means that he likely reads this board and/or posts to it.

Nothing to do with Viacom's current vulnerabilities and succession crisis? The timing of the articles isn't interesting at all...

It is like someone is trying to instigate a new DisneyWar...
 

flynnibus

Premium Member
Comparing domestic Parks & Resorts performance to international Parks & Resorts does not muddy the water. It is the point. International Parks & Resorts operations have under performed compared to domestic operations.

Well two points
1) that's not what your post said in text... if that was the intent I apologize but that's not what was said.. that whole 'compared to domestic operations' angle changes the statement quite significantly. You were talking about how they've failed to grow the international (in this vein of a brand acceptance train of thought in the thread).

2) International Resorts don't operate in the same place domestic do - so those incredibly important economic risks can't be ignored... it's a bit apples to oranges and the conclusion from such a chart is incredibly open ended to be taken many different ways.

Please recall what I originally wrote: "Disney's overseas properties have stalled as the Disney brand fails to gain traction."

A statement I find incredibly hard to digest. 'fails to gain traction'? Disney products have been international for 50+ years... the main parks we are talking about are ~10 and 20+ years old.. the time of startup or 'gaining traction' is long long gone. Now you can say they have stalled (which is what I read) - but as I mentioned before, they have also been suffering from economic environments much more punishing than domestic has. And HK while it had a slow start, has been posting steady, if slow, growth. There, things are actually accellerating on the tail of the recent expansions.

For the market segment, revenues have been UP - not down. So, yeah, I'd say comparing to domestic does muddy the picture and proves what? That the US economy has been recovering better than continental europe?

I agree with you; investing overseas is a bold strategy. However, my point and the point of the original article that started this particular conversation (titled "Disney CEO Fumbles Entry to China") is that Disney continues to struggle to sell its particular brand of Americana overseas. :)

Using China and 'rest of world' interchangeably obviously is a major mistake... and the article is talking about China specifically.. so why are we talking 'international p&r' and not CPD, Media, Studios, and HKDL as all specifically related to China?

The jist of that article is lame IMO - and can be summed up as 'fueling a business whose backbone is based on nostalgia and past experiences... is hard to do with an audience that has no history with your output'. Duh. The examples of building HKDL on the 'lite' side have little to do with culture clash and more to do with Disney's early 2000s strategy of build small first.

Everyone likes to say China is the world's biggest market.. and if it isn't your biggest market obviously you're a failure. Yet, the fact that doesn't happen for almost ANY non-Chinese company shows it's not simply Iger's fault. Even Apple with the iPhone - a device that unlike Disney stands largely devoid of any prior attachment - is still yet to make China it's largest market dispite recently reporting explosive growth in China with the iphone 6.

China is a different culture with different expectations... we all know this.. we all know its a tough nut to crack. I don't understand how anyone hangs that on Iger's head as a failure for not making that well known issue disappear.
 

wdisney9000

Truindenashendubapreser
Premium Member
Although, the model of using artificial grass may help with the public urination problems that the HK property has battled... but, then again, it may help in Florida too with some of the stories being shared a few pages back.
How is it not automatic get kicked out from the park if your caught or seen letting your child urinate over the bridge, on a ride or in a bush? There are bathrooms everywhere. Why would Disney want people like that in their parks? If their willing to disrespect the parks and pee on stuff, they are willing to do worse things as well.
 

JediMasterMatt

Well-Known Member
How is it not automatic get kicked out from the park if your caught or seen letting your child urinate over the bridge, on a ride or in a bush? There are bathrooms everywhere. Why would Disney want people like that in their parks? If their willing to disrespect the parks and pee on stuff, they are willing to do worse things as well.

Sarcasm - you should expect heaping doses of it in every Spirit thread.

Of course MK's bathroom issues should be resolved with the Hub refurb. After all, they are upgrading those two restroom buildings to the left and right of the Castle stage with two themed restroom turrets.
 

BrerJon

Well-Known Member
How is it not automatic get kicked out from the park if your caught or seen letting your child urinate over the bridge, on a ride or in a bush? There are bathrooms everywhere. Why would Disney want people like that in their parks? If their willing to disrespect the parks and pee on stuff, they are willing to do worse things as well.

I think the attitude is that when you're paying over $100 a day entry for dirty and broken down carnival rides, and several hundred dollars for more for a hotel room that Motel 6 would take off inventory, then you've paid for the right to pee anywhere you damn well like.
 

Gabe1

Ivory Tower Squabble EST 2011. WINDMILL SURVIVOR
Worlds Most Admired Companies 2015 for management

1. Walt Disney (8.94)
2. U.S. Bancorp (8.57)
3. Wells Fargo (8.55)
4*. Goldman Sachs Group (8.46)
4*. Comcast (8.46)
6. Google (8.42)
7. Nike (8.40)
8. Nordstrom (8.37)
9. Starbucks (8.33)
10. Nestlé (8.30)


McDonalds dropped to 46, Comcast not doing bad at all.

for long term investment

1. Walt Disney (9.05)
2. Nestlé (8.60)
3. Google (8.38)
4. Wells Fargo (8.33)
5. Nike (8.32)
6. U.S. Bancorp (8.10)
7. Apple (8.00)
8. Goldman Sachs Group (7.98)
9. Johnson & Johnson (7.91)
10.* Berkshire Hathaway (7.89)
10.* Comcast (7.89)

Interesting...Sound Financial Position
1. Google (9.39)
2. Comcast (8.89)
3. Apple (8.86)
4. Nestlé (8.81)
5. Walt Disney (8.72)
6. Wells Fargo (8.67)
7. U.S. Bancorp (8.60)
8. Nike (8.54)
9. Facebook (8.37)
10*. Cisco Systems (8.29)
10*. Costco Wholesale (8.29)
 
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DisDan

Well-Known Member
Don't take this the wrong way and it's not specifically geared towards you, but then take a break. Go back to the resort, have a swim, take a nap ... IMO, strollers are so the parents can haul around their stuff. IMO, there's a certain time when a child needs to walk (and I can imagine the parent feels "safer" to have the child in the stroller and I get that part of it, better than a leash, I suppose) and not be a 9 year old in a stroller.

Kids have to stop being catered to.

Since I've now replied, multiple times, to people calling me out on that reply. Qualifying it with "it's not specifically geared towards me" whilst quoting my post to make your point makes it seem like you are doing just that. But alas, I have already said I agree with your point of view and my reply was simply to say that some families NEED strollers for "little ones" children 0-2, maybe even 3 to some extent (I don't think anyone can argue that point). I also don't think it is practical to expect people to leave the park for nap time because there are a number of factors at play not the least of which is some folks stay off-site and drive (like myself).
 

Cesar R M

Well-Known Member
Worlds Most Admired Companies 2015 for management

1. Walt Disney (8.94)
2. U.S. Bancorp (8.57)
3. Wells Fargo (8.55)
4*. Goldman Sachs Group (8.46)
4*. Comcast (8.46)
6. Google (8.42)
7. Nike (8.40)
8. Nordstrom (8.37)
9. Starbucks (8.33)
10. Nestlé (8.30)


McDonalds dropped to 46, Comcast not doing bad at all.

for long term investment

1. Walt Disney (9.05)
2. Nestlé (8.60)
3. Google (8.38)
4. Wells Fargo (8.33)
5. Nike (8.32)
6. U.S. Bancorp (8.10)
7. Apple (8.00)
8. Goldman Sachs Group (7.98)
9. Johnson & Johnson (7.91)
10.* Berkshire Hathaway (7.89)
10.* Comcast (7.89)

Interesting...Sound Financial Position
1. Google (9.39)
2. Comcast (8.89)
3. Apple (8.86)
4. Nestlé (8.81)
5. Walt Disney (8.72)
6. Wells Fargo (8.67)
7. U.S. Bancorp (8.60)
8. Nike (8.54)
9. Facebook (8.37)
10*. Cisco Systems (8.29)
10*. Costco Wholesale (8.29)
goldmand ans sachs? the same company that was recently accused of fraud?
comcast too? seriously??
 

NormC

Well-Known Member
IMHO these are the only types of strollers that should be allowed:
br_targetblackfridaydeals.jpg


Enough of the giant SUV land yacht style strollers that seat three and carry a cooler etc.
A simple umbrella stroller for each kid. Disney should have bollards at the entrance and if your stroller does not fit between them it goes back to your car.
 

GrammieBee

Well-Known Member
I see two types of people in wheelchairs at WDW. The ones who have a Disney rented wheelchair and the ones who have their own personal wheelchair that they came in, which is very easy to recognize. The people who are in their own personal wheelchair will always have the right of way with me and I gladly move out of the way if I see them coming. I will give them my spot for a parade or a show if it allows them to see better. For those people who have a real medical or otherwise legit reason to be in that chair, I always help out in any way that I can. On a few occasions I have a seen a legit hndicap person in a Disney wheel chair for some reason. Perhaps theirs had a problem that day, but again, its easy to tell. Mostly because they are not a heavy set person.

Now, IMO, the ones who have a rented wheelchair are the same type of people you see in the grocery store or at walmart who can walk just fine but choose to use the EVC scooter the stores have. They are lazy. I dont wanna hear any excuses about injuries or problems they have. If they had serious problems they would have THEIR OWN wheelchair or EVC by now. Do they rent scooters everyday where they live? Doubt it. They most likely only go to stores that provide free use of an EVC. That tells me that they either dont qualify for assistance in getting one or are to cheap to care about their own well being and buy one. In WDW, 99.9% of people in rented wheelchairs/scooters fall into the extremely overweight category. If they have problems walking due to their weight, thats fine, but why dont they have their own personal EVC yet? Again, they fall into the category of cheap/dont have a legit enough problem to get assistance. If they dont want to help themselves then I cant help them either. Not saying I block their path or make it harder for them, but Im also not going to go out of my way to move for them just because they are too lazy to walk and get the much needed exercise they require. This group kinda ruins it for families such as yours because they create the stereotype that lead people to think everyone in a wheelchair at WDW is lazy. I see many large people at WDW actually WALKING and its not fair to them either. They chose to not be lazy and perhaps are trying to get a little exercise as well. I applaud them.

I also realize that there is occasionally a person who may have sprained an ankle or broke a bone just before their trip and now must rent a scooter. This category of people is easy to spot because they have either a cast or brace or something that shows why they have a scooter/wheelchair. Just adding this so nobody brings it up.
Sorry, your gross generalization ignores the people who rent because they don't want to haul their own ECV/scooter to FL. Flying with a stroller? PITA... Flying with a ECV? Gotta be much worse. The airports have chairs/service... so does Disney. So why bring your own except to try to save money? Most know its not worth the hassle.


First of all, I always fly with my own scooter. It is a blessing in the ariport's long concourses plus I can take it to the departure gate and pick it up at the arrival gate for no extra charge. Waiting for it to arrive can take awhile and may make us late to pick up our luggage, and it can be an advernture to get from one place to another in a strange airport when you can't use the esculators or stairs, but I guess you can't have everything.

Second, I always use the scooters provided by a grocery store or KMart as it is much simpler than hauling my scooter in and out of the car. Which is impossible for me if I am alone.

Third, I can walk short distances and even climb a few stairs, so you might see me out of my scooter. If possible, I'll try to park my scooter somewhere out of the way and walk to where I need to go such as to a restaurant table, a theater seat or a short line. Aside from my white hair you might think "Ha! She doesn't meed a scooter." But, You have no idea how much pain I am in.

Finally. True, there are some grossly overweight people in scooters and wheelchairs. It is easy to pass judgement, but just why they are that large could be for a number of reasons; not all of them the person's fault. And , no, I am not one of them. Just a pleasingly plump little old lady who will always come to the defense of we poor maligned scooter users who do not run into people cause no problems and just want to enjoy the parks to the best of our abilities.
 
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Rasvar

Well-Known Member
Worlds Most Admired Companies 2015 for management

1. Walt Disney (8.94)
2. U.S. Bancorp (8.57)
3. Wells Fargo (8.55)
4*. Goldman Sachs Group (8.46)
4*. Comcast (8.46)
6. Google (8.42)
7. Nike (8.40)
8. Nordstrom (8.37)
9. Starbucks (8.33)
10. Nestlé (8.30)


McDonalds dropped to 46, Comcast not doing bad at all.

for long term investment

1. Walt Disney (9.05)
2. Nestlé (8.60)
3. Google (8.38)
4. Wells Fargo (8.33)
5. Nike (8.32)
6. U.S. Bancorp (8.10)
7. Apple (8.00)
8. Goldman Sachs Group (7.98)
9. Johnson & Johnson (7.91)
10.* Berkshire Hathaway (7.89)
10.* Comcast (7.89)

Interesting...Sound Financial Position
1. Google (9.39)
2. Comcast (8.89)
3. Apple (8.86)
4. Nestlé (8.81)
5. Walt Disney (8.72)
6. Wells Fargo (8.67)
7. U.S. Bancorp (8.60)
8. Nike (8.54)
9. Facebook (8.37)
10*. Cisco Systems (8.29)
10*. Costco Wholesale (8.29)

I assume this was a survey of financial analyst and not consumers.

Clarification edit: Meant as a dig at Comcast.
 
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COProgressFan

Well-Known Member
I think the attitude is that when you're paying over $100 a day entry for dirty and broken down carnival rides, and several hundred dollars for more for a hotel room that Motel 6 would take off inventory, then you've paid for the right to pee anywhere you **** well like.


I don't think the original poster was saying he agreed with it, but that this is the attitude many guests take.

And you can't necessarily blame them. As has been discussed on these boards, when people shell out outrageous sums of money for mediocre experiences and products, receive poor service, deal with all the complications and overscheduling associated with MM+, and feel Mickey trying to reach his hand into their wallet all week, they don't always respond well.

If guests don't feel the love from Disney, why should they return the sentiment? It absolutely relates to poor guest behavior.
 
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Rasvar

Well-Known Member
No, the numbers in the chart are just for Parks & Resorts. Marvel, Frozen in the Studio division and ESPN have nothing to do with the chart.
My bad. I misread that as total revenue for WDC as a whole and not the parks. I missed the part on it just being a percentage of P&R. Sorry about that.
 

Hakunamatata

Le Meh
Premium Member
I don't think the original poster was saying he agreed with it, but that this is the attitude many guests take.

And you can't necessarily blame them. As has been discussed on these boards, when people shell out outrageous sums of money for mediocre experiences and products, receive poor service, deal with all the complications and overscheduling associated with MM+, and feel Mickey trying to reach his hand into their wallet all week, they don't always respond well.

If guests don't feel the love from Disney, why should they return the sentiment? It absolutely relates to poor guest behavior.
When we start excusing bad behavior of people because the same people make bad judgements we are doomed as a society. Wait. We already do. My bad.
 

the.dreamfinder

Well-Known Member
One more point on the Disney in China. Where is the effort to educate the public on what makes Disney special (ie exposure to Disney films, shorts and the legacy of Walt Disney and his artists). Where are the screenings of "Snow White and the Seven Dwavres" at the local Chinese multiplex? Where are the making of television specials attached to TV airings of Disney and Pixar films? Where are the localized books about the history of Disney and its various creative achievements? (Christopher Finch's "Art of Walt Disney" comes to mind)

At a Citigroup global business conference (which I will pull up when I get the chance), Jay Rasulo talked about how the Disney Channel is the company's global BRAND ambassador. He noted, however, that TWDC would not be able to create a Chinese version of the Disney Channel and that Shanghai Disneyland would fill the void. That's all and well Jay, but a "BRAND ambassador", as you put it, isn't some massive resort, which is certainly a good long term goal. A "BRAND ambassador" is when a child and his parents go see "Beauty and the Beast" on the big screen and they share a moment together or someone stumbles upon those new Mickey Mouse shorts on YouKu and eagerly awaits each new episode every week or a child whose mother or father gives him or her a Mickey Mouse doll on their birthday that ends up being their closest companion. It's about touching others even though you may speak different languages and live on different sides of the world.
Here are Rasulo's comments from the 2012 Citigroup conference on SDR's role as TWDC's beachhead to China.
http://cdn.media.ir.thewaltdisneycompany.com/2012/events/jar-citi-2012-0105-transcript.pdf
Jason Bazinet – Analyst, Citigroup

And given your history at Disney in the parks division, and I know it's still a few years out, but do you mind just taking a second and explaining a little bit of the sheer scope and size of the operation in China and what it will ultimately be relative to the US investments?

Jay Rasulo – Senior Executive Vice President and Chief Financial Officer, The Walt Disney Company

In terms of Shanghai Disneyland?

Jason Bazinet – Analyst, Citigroup

Yes.

Jay Rasulo – Senior Executive Vice President and Chief Financial Officer, The Walt Disney Company

So, not to forget the park we already have in China, in Hong Kong, Hong Kong Disneyland has been doing amazingly well over the last couple of years, has definitely contributed along with Paris to that international growth picture you've seen. But Shanghai Disneyland is a very important strategic down stroke for the company. I mentioned that part of our international strategy, and if you look around particularly at emerging markets, investments of scale are something that we have decided to do in new markets. We recently announced a free to air deal in Russia to get a joint venture to get the Disney Channel on free to air television in Russia. We are engaged in buying in the rest of UTV in India that we own 50% of, but really want to have a significant statement there.

And in China where of course media entry is much more difficult than it is in most counties of the world, we decided our strategic play was going to be to plant the flag of a major destination theme park in Shanghai
. And we worked on it for a decade. As you all know, the deal came to fruition, it is underway. It is a sizable investment in a partnership between the Chinese government and Disney. It's on a very, very big piece of land in Pudong in between the airport and the older part, more developed part of Shanghai, although Pudong is becoming quite developed. And it has the potential to be probably our second biggest resort around the world.

So the scale there -- of course we won't open at that size, but we'll open with significant scale if we compare it to Hong Kong, and have every reason to believe even in the microcosm of the Hong Kong Disneyland project where we see bigger and bigger penetration from mainland China, really gives us a good perspective and a good high optimism about how successful this park can be. It will be, look quite different from our other parks around the world in terms of how it's organized, but it will be 100% Disney, make no mistake about it. It will be distinctly Chinese, but it will be 100% built around Disney equities. That's what our partners want, that's of course what we want, and we have every reason to believe that it will accelerate quickly. And as I said, it certainly has the land potential and we think the market potential to be our second biggest destination around the world. And when you think about the size of the Orlando destination, that's a pretty big statement. And even Tokyo which brushes up against 30 million attendees a year. So we're pretty optimistic about it.
 

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