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A Spirited Perfect Ten
- Thread starter WDW1974
- Start date
NearTheEars
Well-Known Member
I (obviously) know little about China, but why is its experience with Disney so limited, but Japan's so vast? A government thing?
tirian
Well-Known Member
In many Communist countries, "Disney" is synonymous with American values and culture. The majority of Red China doesn't have a nostalgic love for all things Mickey Mouse.
Edit: The barrier is the reason analysts questioned Shanghai DL back when it was announced. Hong Kong DL is successful because Hong Kong is a westernized country, but the tiny park still doesn't compare to the wildly popular Tokyo resort.
the.dreamfinder
Well-Known Member
One more point on the Disney in China. Where is the effort to educate the public on what makes Disney special (ie exposure to Disney films, shorts and the legacy of Walt Disney and his artists). Where are the screenings of "Snow White and the Seven Dwavres" at the local Chinese multiplex? Where are the making of television specials attached to TV airings of Disney and Pixar films? Where are the localized books about the history of Disney and its various creative achievements? (Christopher Finch's "Art of Walt Disney" comes to mind)
At a Citigroup global business conference (which I will pull up when I get the chance), Jay Rasulo talked about how the Disney Channel is the company's global BRAND ambassador. He noted, however, that TWDC would not be able to create a Chinese version of the Disney Channel and that Shanghai Disneyland would fill the void. That's all and well Jay, but a "BRAND ambassador", as you put it, isn't some massive resort, which is certainly a good long term goal. A "BRAND ambassador" is when a child and his parents go see "Beauty and the Beast" on the big screen and they share a moment together or someone stumbles upon those new Mickey Mouse shorts on YouKu and eagerly awaits each new episode every week or a child whose mother or father gives him or her a Mickey Mouse doll on their birthday that ends up being their closest companion. It's about touching others even though you may speak different languages and live on different sides of the world.
EDIT: Rasulo's comments
At a Citigroup global business conference (which I will pull up when I get the chance), Jay Rasulo talked about how the Disney Channel is the company's global BRAND ambassador. He noted, however, that TWDC would not be able to create a Chinese version of the Disney Channel and that Shanghai Disneyland would fill the void. That's all and well Jay, but a "BRAND ambassador", as you put it, isn't some massive resort, which is certainly a good long term goal. A "BRAND ambassador" is when a child and his parents go see "Beauty and the Beast" on the big screen and they share a moment together or someone stumbles upon those new Mickey Mouse shorts on YouKu and eagerly awaits each new episode every week or a child whose mother or father gives him or her a Mickey Mouse doll on their birthday that ends up being their closest companion. It's about touching others even though you may speak different languages and live on different sides of the world.
EDIT: Rasulo's comments
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the.dreamfinder
Well-Known Member
It also really goes back to how little planning was put into the China strategy once the Weatherman took over the reins. With a market like that where there is no connection to Disney, where was the long term planning? I think we need to send Spirit back to China to do some in-depth fact finding on the company's strategy because all I see is "LOOK MONEY!!!".
rioriz
Well-Known Member
The Challenge China is presenting is going to be blessing in disguise. It forces the Disney company to think out of the box and bypass the status quo.
Yes theRe may be a short term fall but a long term gain in all of its parks can be the result....
HK has now overtaken DLP as my fav over seas MK style park due to its originality and separateness from other parks.
That's why I am a fan of the Pandora expansion...the word Avatarland cheapens what is to be experienced. I doubt and hope it won't be called that. Pandora will be a world unlike we have ever seen in the states (TDS standard ). it will be a place I can sit on a bench and just stare at for minutes.
Sorry for rant....
Yes theRe may be a short term fall but a long term gain in all of its parks can be the result....
HK has now overtaken DLP as my fav over seas MK style park due to its originality and separateness from other parks.
That's why I am a fan of the Pandora expansion...the word Avatarland cheapens what is to be experienced. I doubt and hope it won't be called that. Pandora will be a world unlike we have ever seen in the states (TDS standard ). it will be a place I can sit on a bench and just stare at for minutes.
Sorry for rant....
PhotoDave219
Well-Known Member
So you're saying that simply overlaying the Orlando Theme Park model won't work in Shanghai? Why I am shocked! Shocked!
TP2000
Well-Known Member
It's not just nearly every building in the state, it's also parking lots, parks and athletic fields, and... theme parks. Or any public facility really.
You can't enter Disney property or get into the parks in Anaheim without passing these signs.
The chemicals covered by Prop 65 a person might conceivably come in contact with during a Disneyland visit are found in things like brass railings or doorknobs, plastic flip flops with rhinestones, car exhaust in a parking lot, vinyl ponchos, leaded glass windows, decorative sand or rocks, luggage, dyed icing on cakes or desserts, bicycles, or the new ceramic mugs sold at Starbucks. Add about three million other consumer goods items to that list, and those all contain chemicals known to cause cancer and birth defects.
Seriously, it's a thing.
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BrerJon
Well-Known Member
Actually Cesar, the astroturf is being used for the Fastpass reserved fireworks viewing areas, so erm, yes you may well have to!
ParentsOf4
Well-Known Member
Yes, I agree with your why, although please recall that Disney does not own any part of TDL (it's just a licensing agreement) so it barely registers in Disney's numbers compared to other properties.
After peaking during the U.S. recession, International Parks & Resorts revenue as a percentage of total P&R revenue has been declining ever since.
Disney is investing billions internationally in an effort to reverse this trend.
BrerJon
Well-Known Member
Could a failure in Shanghai be the big black swan that impacts who takes over from Iger?
If 2017-2018 sees Shanghai Disney failing to capture the Chinese imagination so much that it makes the EuroDisney opening look like the greatest success ever, that could really impact his legacy, reputation and succession choice just as much as the decline of animation and the Presslerisation of Disneyland affected the last few Eisner years.
I also find it interesting that despite Staggs having been head of Parks & Resorts during construction, Shanghai is very much associated in the public eye as being an Iger project, not a Staggs one. Could this be pre-emptively providing cover for the CEO in waiting?
Having said that, there is a precedent though which Iger could follow to ensure Shanghai success. Apple was also a minor presence in China until recently, but has made a massive dent in the Chinese market recently and Iger is on Apple's board of directors, so he's no doubt been taking a few strategy tips from them.
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lazyboy97o
Well-Known Member
You might want to peak at Sino-Japanese relations. Spoiler, it isn't pretty. The Chinese owners aren't going to want product developed for the Japanese owners of Tokyo Disneyland.
Following World War II, Japan was forced to become a U.S. ally with a political and economic system designed by the U.S. Army. Consumption of foreign goods exploded in Japan, seen often as a different, uniquely Japanese way of reinforcing Japanese identity, by proudly be able to consume "pure" cultural imports. This is why Tokyo Disneyland is mostly a mix-and-match of designs from Disneyland and the Magic Kingdom. Unlike Euro Disneyland or Hong Kong Disneyland which are a French and Chinese version of the park, Tokyo Disneyland is supposed to be full-on Americana, an American park through and through built in Japan.
China on the other hand has spent most of the 20th century struggling with its cultural identity. When the communists took control of the Mainland in 1949, the Communist Party of China was not interested in becoming one of Stalin's Soviet satellites that were new Soviet lands in all but name. Mao Zedong jumped very violently from the Thousand Flowers movement, a stimulation of many new ideas, to the Cultural Revolution, which south to destroy anything deemed counter-revolutionary. The 1970s would see the Sino-Soviet split and the "opening" of China by President Nixon. Starting in the 1980s, China began opening up its economic system, but the communists have always feared what happened to the Soviet Union, a shattering of the Soviet system and identity. Issues of culture and identity remain to this day as hot issues for the Communist Party, and part ofthat means limiting the populations exposure to foreign culture and entertainment.
Rasvar
Well-Known Member
The problem with the chart is that the reason for the decline is not so much a reduction of revenue but more an increase in other units. Marvel and things like Frozen have really amped the studio division after a few down years. Plus ESPN is still the all gobbling sports monster getting more money from cable subs and advertisers through big events.
ParentsOf4
Well-Known Member
No, the numbers in the chart are just for Parks & Resorts. Marvel, Frozen in the Studio division and ESPN have nothing to do with the chart.
ford91exploder
Resident Curmudgeon
The big problem is Disney does not resonate with the Chinese on a cultural level. Main St means nothing to them, The parks are a reflection of culture and while Disney COULD have created a Disney park which resonated with the Chinese we probably would not recognize it as a successful Chinese park would have been a uniquely Chinese experience with elements from Chinese culture.
Main St would need to be re-imagined as idealized Chinese town, It's why 'Kung Fu Panda' is a huge hit in China and movies are EXPENSIVE in china being about 100 CNY while the average salary is about 2500 CNY
As to 'The Lion King' well your average Chinese is probably rooting for Scar because he represents how many of the Dynasties changed over (a change in dynasties was not pretty)
Once again TWDC is showing their cultural ignorance.
ford91exploder
Resident Curmudgeon
^^^^THIS^^^^ The chinese dont WANT to be american, Yes they like some elements of American culture but they want to be CHINESE.
ford91exploder
Resident Curmudgeon
Iger might believe Shanghai will be his theme park legacy but Parks & Resorts' international revenue expansion has slowed under Iger, growing at an anemic 3.5% over the last 3 fiscal years. Fiscal year 2015 has started off even worse, with international revenue flat.
Rather than build a head of steam, Disney's overseas properties have stalled as the Disney brand fails to gain traction. As the article states, "The Walt Disney Company has a history of stumbling if not outright tumbling in its efforts to export Disney's brand of Americana."
It's a pity all that money is being invested in China and France rather than domestically where North & South American consumers continue to feast on Disney products.
It's because all Iger sees is the amount of MONEY to be made in China, He does not understand the chinese market AT all and I think Disney like so many others will lose their shirt there, Yes there is LOTS of money to be made in China but only by those that understand China and it's culture. As bad as 'One Disney' is in the domestic parks it REALLY does not fit in China.
Where he SHOULD be investing is in the Americas where the parks are a license to print money.
BrerJon
Well-Known Member
When Disneyland Paris opened you couldn't buy a glass of wine or beer in the park because TWDC tried to impose American views on alcohol on the French, but they learned that lesson fast when guests complained and nowadays DLP has a distinctly French flavour to things instead of just being a American import.
One can only hope that they've learned lessons and with Shanghai they've made an effort from the start not to assume any American cultural norms would translate and instead have started from scratch using Chinese natives to guide them.
ford91exploder
Resident Curmudgeon
It has a Main St so I think as usual Disney is not listening.
flynnibus
Premium Member
Comparing the International to Domestic (as a ratio) only muddies the picture because you introduce Domestic's performance into the picture.. when the statement was purely about growth in International. You beat up on Disney for failing to grow international... during a time when for the most part... most places were trying to avoid sliding backwards into the abyss.
International rose 3% in 2014 and rose 3% in 2013 as well... but because you display them as a ratio to OTHER performance in your chart.. it looks to be declining. This is misleading when the comment was about International growth.
In recent years Disney has been investing heavily... from two rounds of HK expansion, to the DLP restructuring and long term rehabs ongoing, and ride additions. I think Disney has been quite bold on International efforts in the last 3-5 years and while numbers are not breaking out... many of these are long term moves and regions have been struggling through historic economic crisis.