A Spirited Perfect Ten

ford91exploder

Resident Curmudgeon
I don't necessarily disagree with your criticisms of Eisner but as the Spirit has said, Iger has all of Eisner's bad traits but none of his good traits.

The difference between Iger and Eisner is that Eisner saw himself as the steward of the Disney heritage and respected the fact that Disney was known for it's creative products and grew the company in that manner (which was over 800% BTW). Iger is a 'numbers' guy and just wants to build a media conglomerate and has no respect for the creative process. As for those who think Iger is a genius he has only managed to grow TWDC by about 80% he has indeed done wonders with the stock price but he has not improved the fundamentals of the company that much as Eisner did.
 

matt9112

Well-Known Member
you're forgetting the culture of DEBT, CREDIT CARD and LEASING.

Before, it was pretty hard to get CC's or some sort of payment solution.
So I'm pretty sure most people now have to pay in parts and not in a single chunk of the days of "before".
Hence why people are still allowed to go to WDW for weeks.
Instead of saving, they now go into debt for the trip.
I dont think that will be sustainable in the long run.


We save for two years......
 

matt9112

Well-Known Member
Not to mention, Disney wasn't founded by Walt. Disney was founded by Walt and Roy. The first name of Disney's founder has been absent since forever from the company name. The Disney Brothers Cartoon Studio decided that for marketing purposes it was better to trim the name down by omitting its founder.

I'm pretty sure walt was added after the fact by walt himself and Roy was ok with that. Walt knew he was part of the brand (during that period) you could argue the brand can now stand on its own but forgetting the fact that walt changed the name from Disney studios to walt disney studios is dumb.
 

matt9112

Well-Known Member
One of the big problems with Walt Disney is that the public relations department worked overtime for many years polishing his image. To this day many people believe in all of the hyperbole about Walt and don't realize or care to admit he had very serious flaws. Most people seem to prefer the sugar coated Walt.

Everyone has flaws....what's your point? Did anyone else make Disneyland happen or plan WDW? to cut him down over "flaws" every human has is Rediculous. He changed alot of things in the world. First in film than with castles.
 

matt9112

Well-Known Member
Except Walt had been trying to find new locations for themepark's not just Epcot for many years prior to the Florida project. It wasn't just Roy thinking of parks beyond disneyland.

Theme parks were always part of the Florida project vision. The thing was is Walt wasn't interested in working on the theme park and it was Roy to insist that the themepark be done first

Roy's contribution was doing the theme park first, and driving the company to continue with the project even after walt's death -- not the idea that there needs to be a theme park in the plan.

Walt had been keen to add new theme park projects and the feasibility work had always been about that... Not epcot. The whole political twists to create rcid and that idea all came after the property was selected. Highlighting that wasn't part of the selection criteria

Only reason MK the "theme park" be done first is because Roy was a numbers guy and hey knew it would be direct ROI.
 

flynnibus

Premium Member
Only reason MK the "theme park" be done first is because Roy was a numbers guy and hey knew it would be direct ROI.

Did you missed where the previous poster said the only reason it exists at all was Roy.. which is what I was countering. And Disney was looking to expand their theme park operations well before the EPCOT concept was conceived. The runaway success of DL had Disney looking to expand and tap the lucrative east coast market from very early on.
 

AEfx

Well-Known Member
I disagree slightly with your Eisner assessment. When he went out on television and essentially sold himself as a Walt Disney like figure or heir to the Empire, I think that destroys the clarity of the brand much more. Disney belongs to Walt Disney. Eisner and Iger are just stewards of the incredible legacy. Equating one's self with Walt Disney is as stupid as it is damaging.

When people consume Disney content, they should not be thinking of executive management. Iger will gone in a few years. Disney is timeless.

Exactly, which is why I brought up Eisner to begin with. As much as he "was" Disney when I was growing up (he was best friends with Mickey!) - I still have "reverence" for Walt's accomplishments. That's why the little "OHMIGOD they are ERASING WALT!" stuff is really just "fan crap" - things that only Internet message board users notice or care about. And of course, as it's all about "feelings" and "the spirit" of things, you cannot have a rational discussion about it.

Also as I said a few days back, in any case, it's not healthy for a company to be so associated with a single person anyway. Talk to the cast and crew of the The Cosby Show. While one would think that by now if there was anything really terrible about Walt we'd already know it, then again - and Cosby is a prime example - he'd been doing what he allegedly did for 40+ years.

On the other side of the coin, while I do not think this is really any intentional "parting" from Walt or any such thing, on a macro level, it's been a balance they've had to shift around. When Walt died, they were in crisis and wanted to make sure that the company didn't go down the toilet from being so closely associated with one man, and then in the Eisner years they really tried to "modernize" the image and not rely so much. So I'm sure these things are thought about on some level, but it's really asinine to think that somehow they are trying to "do away" with him in general. He's everywhere, when you really think about it.
 

Magenta Panther

Well-Known Member
I don't believe all salesman are con artists...playing up a product and building social relationships based around selling that product are one thing....tricking and or lieing to someone are other things.

This is how ol' Phil gets attention - coming onto a Disney forum and tearing Walt down. Gets his rocks off somehow. Pity him.
 

ford91exploder

Resident Curmudgeon
Got a question for you. Other than the National Dept and my waistline, what kind of entity can sustain a growth of 800%?

None - but in a decade Iger has not even been able to DOUBLE the market cap except by financial engineering which will be wiped out in the next downturn. Iger has not brought NEW businesses online like Eisner did examples being DVC and DCL.

Eisner did lots of things which improved the top line for the company, Iger has not moved the needle of top line revenues for a long time.

Iger's made a couple of REALLY GOOD acquisitions especially PIXAR, Lucasfilm but many of his media properties have lost value and internet operations and interactive well...
 

stlphil

Well-Known Member
Did you missed where the previous poster said the only reason it exists at all was Roy.. which is what I was countering. And Disney was looking to expand their theme park operations well before the EPCOT concept was conceived. The runaway success of DL had Disney looking to expand and tap the lucrative east coast market from very early on.
Just to add a bit to this point, the reason Walt went "all in" on the New York Worlds Fair was to gauge how east coast audiences and their tastes would react to Disney-style themed entertainment.
 

ford91exploder

Resident Curmudgeon
Exactly, which is why I brought up Eisner to begin with. As much as he "was" Disney when I was growing up (he was best friends with Mickey!) - I still have "reverence" for Walt's accomplishments. That's why the little "OHMIGOD they are ERASING WALT!" stuff is really just "fan crap" - things that only Internet message board users notice or care about. And of course, as it's all about "feelings" and "the spirit" of things, you cannot have a rational discussion about it.

Also as I said a few days back, in any case, it's not healthy for a company to be so associated with a single person anyway. Talk to the cast and crew of the The Cosby Show. While one would think that by now if there was anything really terrible about Walt we'd already know it, then again - and Cosby is a prime example - he'd been doing what he allegedly did for 40+ years.

On the other side of the coin, while I do not think this is really any intentional "parting" from Walt or any such thing, on a macro level, it's been a balance they've had to shift around. When Walt died, they were in crisis and wanted to make sure that the company didn't go down the toilet from being so closely associated with one man, and then in the Eisner years they really tried to "modernize" the image and not rely so much. So I'm sure these things are thought about on some level, but it's really asinine to think that somehow they are trying to "do away" with him in general. He's everywhere, when you really think about it.

The difference being is Iger sees Disney as simply a 'brand' not a philosophy based on creativity and superior customer service. Eisner embraced the 'Disney Difference'. Iger is embracing the WalMart business model.
 

Phil12

Well-Known Member
I don't believe all salesman are con artists...playing up a product and building social relationships based around selling that product are one thing....tricking and or lieing to someone are other things.
But Walt did lie and trick many people not the least of which were his shareholders. In 1952 he secretly created WED Enterprises and made sure that the shareholders did not know about the existence of the company. He then hired away top talent from the studio, increased their salaries, hired his own company (without competitive bidding) as the primary contractor to build Disneyland, charged back all expenses plus costs (including his own salary) to ABC, Walt Disney Productions and Western Publishing (the companies that owned 83% of the investment).

And Walt build his private railroad (and later the monorail) within Disneyland yet he never paid the principal owners (i.e. ABC, Walt Disney Productions and Western Publishing) for any right of way or any lease fees. WED built his railroad with sponsorship from the Atchison, Topeka and Santa Fe Railway. The AT&SF signed a five year deal with Walt Disney (not with Disneyland) and their lease fee was $50,000 per year. The railway (and other transportation) was owned and operated by Walt Disney, not Disneyland. You've got to remember that Walt was a minority owner in Disneyland with only a 16.55% interest but Walt owned 100% of the railway, monorail and other transportation.

To be fair, a lot of these underhanded business dealings ended up haunting Walt toward the end. Walt and his brother Roy had argued for many years about the illegitimacy of WED. However, Roy finally convinced Walt that selling WED to Walt Disney Productions was the right thing to do rather than continue diverting large sums of money away from the studio and park operations.

When the lawyers examined the WED financial records, they found it hard to believe how much money Walt had siphoned away from the studio and the park. Walt was required at that time to pay back right of way and lease fees on the railway for the previous ten years. WED was bought by Disney Productions on February 5, 1965 (just a little less than two years before Walt's death).

And then there was RETLAW...
 

Phil12

Well-Known Member
Yet, somehow the thread survives without one person holding court...which is why I think you'll find this thread is popular because it's a "catch all" for Disney/entertainment and the moderation rules are much more loose as to the topics, as opposed to a measurement of any particular individuals fan club.
And I thought it was all about me and my brilliance.
 

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