A Spirited 15 Rounds ...

[The Empress Lilly]

I was just kidding, because I assumed it wasn't a big deal. Well, after all this talk - I just sought it out, and wow - it is pretty bad. It may not change anyone's mind, but I think it's getting to be a bit too much to say that people are just "digging" - why is so much of this stuff around to dig up?

That said, it isn't about his costume.

It's about the fact that he was at a "To Catch A Predator" party themed around freaking pedophilia. And pictures of him with adults dressed like children posing pretending to be being abused.

I'm sorry, that's just freaking sicko. If I am Disney, and I am investing money into GoG as a franchise, including theme park attractions (it will be the first big Marvel attraction at WDW, it already is a super-popular one at DCA), I get why they don't want him anywhere near the brand.

After my initial shock, I now think these particular pictures are irrelevant and a private matter. I'm not interested in what people do for recreation when everybody involved is a consenting adult.

Compare:
1 Rape joke tweet: Lol Mike Tyson would know how to handle a 12 year old (or some such)
2 Two adults photographing themselves living out a rape fantasy role-play, in private

1 is offensive, 2 a private matter, irrespective of personal taste.

 

[The Empress Lilly]

I just have trouble getting over a 40+ year old non-comedian trying to make these types of jokes on social media. I mean at best, they were tweets that were trying to be edgy and funny that were done REALLY badly. I'm good deal younger and not remotely famous, and I've known for a decade that it would be a bad idea to try and walk a line with my social media accounts.

The younger you are, the better your understanding of social media and appropriate conduct.

 

[The Empress Lilly]

All god points. Not sure if the last part is an any way geared towards me, but not trying to defend it or dismiss it (EDIT: But I can see how it may be taken that way). I support the firing but I still see it as hypocritical when they hired him in the first place, knowing about it. That's the reason most logical people have a problem with it. We're somewhat on the same page but we just look at it differently.

Yes, morality and PR are synonyms to TWDC. As for all fortune-500 companies. Sadly. But to me that's almost a footnote to this saga.

Do you strongly wish Gunn had never been hired? Or is this emphasis on Disney hypocrisy a certain 'we didn't do it...and besides, he did it too'?

 

[wdisney9000]

The deflection is laughable. How does pointing fingers at others excuse what Gunn did or discredit any decision Disney makes? Disney has every right to fire him, or even hire him back if they choose. But whining about what other people have said or done is a complete lack of an actual defense.

 

[AEfx]

After my initial shock, I now think these particular pictures are irrelevant and a private matter. I'm not interested in what people do for recreation when everybody involved is a consenting adult.

Compare:
1 Rape joke tweet: Lol Mike Tyson would know how to handle a 12 year old (or some such)
2 Two adults photographing themselves living out a rape fantasy role-play, in private

1 is offensive, 2 a private matter, irrespective of personal taste.

I disagree rather whole-heatedly.

These pictures ceased being a "private matter" when Gunn posted them publicly on his blog and named them from a "To Catch A Predator" themed party.

These weren't dug up from some jilted ex or hacked or otherwise ill-gotten, private pictures.

 

[The Empress Lilly]

I disagree rather whole-heatedly.

These pictures ceased being a "private matter" when Gunn posted them publicly on his blog and named them from a "To Catch A Predator" themed party.

These weren't dug up from some jilted ex or hacked or otherwise ill-gotten, private pictures.

He didn't force the pics on anybody. Twitter and blogs is how you share stuff in the 21st century. Any non-consenting adult can simply not click the link.

Imagine a woman acting out her rape fantasy with another consenting adult. Being exhibitionists, they post their 'rape fest' pics on their 18+ website.

Should she be socially ostracised for making fun of rape victims? For turning rape into a game? Or is she merely engaging in her entirely private adult entertainment? And this being a free country, it being none of my business?

I find rape as distasteful as paedophilia. But roleplaying either by consenting adults is a private matter. Is he a sicko? Maybe, but not because of this. I'm not joining a hunt against deviant sexual behaviour. I don't peek through the keyhole of anybody's bedroom. (Or fetish club, or party, or blog, or anywhere populated exclusively with consenting adults, as in these pics)

 

[AEfx]

He didn't force the pics on anybody. Twitter and blogs is how you share stuff in the 21st century. Any non-consenting adult can simply not click the link.

Imagine a woman acting out her rape fantasy with another consenting adult. Being exhibitionists, they post their 'rape fest' pics on their 18+ website.

Should she be socially ostracised for making fun of rape victims? For turning rape into a game? Or is she merely engaging in her entirely private adult entertainment? And this being a free country, it being none of my business?

I guess I don't know what you are arguing. If they don't bother you, they don't bother you. You said a public tweet about rape is offensive, but a public blog post with pictures reenacting rape isn't?

Personally, I see it the opposite - one is planned and thought out, whereas the other can be an off-the-cuff thing (though the fact that there were so many is also very concerning). Which is why, all that said...I kind of feel like which one we personally find most offensive to really be beside the point - it isn't about "socially ostracizing" someone, but should they work for the WDC?

One way or another, these things add up to why the Disney company (I'm starting to realize rightly) doesn't want him to be representing their brand. Now, they screwed up eight ways from Sunday in how it was handled and (arguably, given there was a new matter in June that changed some of the context of his earlier blog posts) when they did it, but if I am Disney - I can't see how after this stuff is public knowledge, you want to be in business with the guy.

That doesn't mean I wouldn't watch a movie he made in the future, I think this stuff is sick but I also believe in judging art as art - but when art and commerce mix as they do at a corporate level at Disney, again - I see why they don't want this stuff haunting them. The cat is out of the bag, and if this stuff had broken during, say, the GotG3 premiere, and it was, as I gave an example elsewhere, the Mary Sue that uncovered these photos? This would be viewed a lot differently.

It is just a mess that is easily dealt with - because Gunn really isn't that much of a name to begin with outside of fandom. The greater public who pays to see these films doesn't know or care who directed them.

 

[AEfx]

OMG...a day I never saw coming - the Mary Sue and I completely fricking agree.

"James Gunn may have been the victim of an alt-right troll campaign to bring him down, but if he hadn’t written out those many gross 'satirical provocateur' Tweets we wouldn’t be talking about this at all."

I guess that sort of also blows in the face of "it's only alt-right-trolls" who are "mock-offended".

 

[asianway]

OMG...a day I never saw coming - the Mary Sue and I completely fricking agree.

"James Gunn may have been the victim of an alt-right troll campaign to bring him down, but if he hadn’t written out those many gross 'satirical provocateur' Tweets we wouldn’t be talking about this at all."

I guess that sort of also blows in the face of "it's only alt-right-trolls" who are "mock-offended".

I’ve heard about it for years but I just yesterday read an article on there

 

[AEfx]

I’ve heard about it for years but I just yesterday read an article on there

I think how they generally view media only through one (often contradictory) lens to be really problematic in general (to use that catchy phrase), but I have to be fair and call them out when they do make some sense. If I didn't, I would be as guilty as those who completely dismiss a story because it comes from a "conservative" website.

 

[Disneyhead'71]

I personally think that every single person who ever made a pedophilic Michael Jackson joke should spend the rest of the lives unemployed and homeless.

 

[Frankie The Beer]

I personally think that every single person who ever made a pedophilic Michael Jackson joke should spend the rest of the lives unemployed and homeless.

Here here! But I'll go one step further. I think everyone who has ever made a post on any social media should be unemployed, homeless and suffer from moderate patches of acne on their backs for the rest of their lives. Get them all!

 

[MisterPenguin]

Found the solution... #juvenilejokestillwanttoworksomeday

 

[Princess Leia]

Anything going on today to make the wait times so low at AK, MK, and Epcot? It’s a summer weekend, I’m pretty shocked looking at these wait times (Test Track is currently closed, and Frozen is down to 25 minutes)

Imagination has the 5th highest wait time in the park right now (tied with Frozen). What kind of weird dimension are we in??

 

[asianway]

Anything going on today to make the wait times so low at AK, MK, and Epcot? It’s a summer weekend, I’m pretty shocked looking at these wait times (Test Track is currently closed, and Frozen is down to 25 minutes)
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Imagination has the 5th highest wait time in the park right now (tied with Frozen). What kind of weird dimension are we in??


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School keeps starting earlier and earlier

 

[Princess Leia]

School keeps starting earlier and earlier

True, but it still seems like weekends aren’t as affected.

Also, I think this all but proves that Epcot needs help. I know things will get crazy during the festivals, but WDW guests seem to be at every park but Epcot.

 

[wdisney9000]

He didn't force the pics on anybody. Twitter and blogs is how you share stuff in the 21st century. Any non-consenting adult can simply not click the link.

Imagine a woman acting out her rape fantasy with another consenting adult. Being exhibitionists, they post their 'rape fest' pics on their 18+ website.

Should she be socially ostracised for making fun of rape victims? For turning rape into a game? Or is she merely engaging in her entirely private adult entertainment? And this being a free country, it being none of my business?

By those standards, Roseanne Bar should still have her job, correct?

 

[wdisney9000]

True, but it still seems like weekends aren’t as affected.

Also, I think this all but proves that Epcot needs help. I know things will get crazy during the festivals, but WDW guests seem to be at every park but Epcot.

IMO, A parks level of enjoyability is not correlated to the wait times of its attractions.

 

[Princess Leia]

IMO, A parks level of enjoyability is not correlated to the wait times of its attractions.

Oh that’s not how I feel either, but the crowds seemed to be higher at the parks that aren’t Epcot. If I was at Epcot, I would be thrilled (wait times have gone up since I initially looked though)

 

[The Empress Lilly]

By those standards, Roseanne Bar should still have her job, correct?

I followed Barr's story only in passing.

Gunn wouldn't have a job with me. And if I were Disney I'd go so far as to reskin the GotG coaster.

But not every smoke is fire, not everything flung at Gunn hits the mark. A thousand mistaken allegations does not make overwhelming evidence, it makes exactly zero evidence.