A Spirited 15 Rounds ...

[FigmentForver96]

Bring on the third park with another Potter area connected by train. I'd love to sit back and watch Disney have to up their game once again.

Or perhaps invest in another IP. At some point there is such a thing as to much of a good thing.

 

[imperius]

Which is Nintendo, Dreamworks, and Illumination.

 

[imperius]

Yeah if you think closing Terminator is a bad thing, your universal opinion is invalid.

 

[Mike S]

Yeah if you think closing Terminator is a bad thing, your universal opinion is invalid.

With the rumors of Shrek closing too for that old rumored SLoP ride it seems like Uni is trying to change a bit of the "screenz" stigma at USF by getting rid of what's getting long in the tooth.

 

[brb1006]

Which is Nintendo, Dreamworks, and Illumination.

I'm surprised with the very small amount of representation the Illumination films had gotten at the Universal Parks besides Despicable Me. No characters from Sing?

 

[Casper Gutman]

With the rumors of Shrek closing too for that old rumored SLoP ride it seems like Uni is trying to change a bit of the "screenz" stigma at USF by getting rid of what's getting long in the tooth.

Yup. I'm very excited about it. I'd love to see Minion Mayhem get the boot for a new Despicable Me area in Kidzone, complete with a couple dark rides.

But if anyone misses the screenz, don't worry - WDW's building at least 3 rides chock full of 'em. AND they're picking up the "naked coaster with some scattered thematic element" slack now that Dragons is closed.

 

[Sped2424]

Sorry... I've heard of both plans. I'd assume only one will happen.

D:

 

[UpAllNight]

Yup. I'm very excited about it. I'd love to see Minion Mayhem get the boot for a new Despicable Me area in Kidzone, complete with a couple dark rides.

But if anyone misses the screenz, don't worry - WDW's building at least 3 rides chock full of 'em. AND they're picking up the "naked coaster with some scattered thematic element" slack now that Dragons is closed.

Both resorts need that shift for a better balance. Uni definitely needs some AA attractions and Disney need to shake a stigma that has emerged over the past few years that Uni is the place to go for modern, high tech rides and Disney is full of antiques.

 

[Casper Gutman]

Both resorts need that shift for a better balance. Uni definitely needs some AA attractions and Disney need to shake a stigma that has emerged over the past few years that Uni is the place to go for modern, high tech rides and Disney is full of antiques.

I agree with you about Uni, but WDW's problem is not that its "full of antiques." I don't think many consider ToT or Everest or even HM as "antiques," and I don't think "screenz" are more "modern" and "high tech" then AA rides. They both just need to build new, good rides and not eliminate classic, beloved attractions (admittedly, not a huge issue for Uni.)

 

[Mike S]

Yup. I'm very excited about it. I'd love to see Minion Mayhem get the boot for a new Despicable Me area in Kidzone, complete with a couple dark rides.

Mario's going to KidZone, hopefully.

 

[ParentsOf4]

This is all my point is. A decent, clean motel room on property at one of the largest tourist attraction in the world can be expected to have a rack rate around $100 just based on comps in similar situations. I'm not saying the price is "worth it" or that you can't get it cheaper with discounts, but that the price is not some out of the ordinary number. It's quite in line with industry standards.

If someone wants to argue that all hotel rooms are overpriced and should be cheaper, be my guest. But I don't see Disney charging anything out of the ordinary for the product and proximity to a major draw for tourists. At least for values and moderates.

I understand this line of thinking, and I don't think it's completely wrong - but I do think it doesn't take into account the whole picture as it relates to WDW.

Sure, a motel during busy tourist season at some beachfront town will run you $100-150/night.

Let's use a couple of hotels at Crescent Lake (near Epcot) to appreciate the premium you pay to stay at a Disney brand resort.

Picking a random night, the least expensive room on June 1, 2018 at the Swan is $319/night including tax and $28/night resort fee. (Less with a AAA membership.)

For that same night, the least expensive room at Disney's Boardwalk Inn (located next to the Swan) is $498/night. That's 56% more than the Swan!

I get paying extra for location. However, since about 2001 Disney brand hotel price increases have consistently outpaced the rest of the industry, and "Guests" have been (sorry for using the word) stupid enough to pay it.

 

[AEfx]

I agree with you about Uni, but WDW's problem is not that its "full of antiques." I don't think many consider ToT or Everest or even HM as "antiques," and I don't think "screenz" are more "modern" and "high tech" then AA rides. They both just need to build new, good rides and not eliminate classic, beloved attractions (admittedly, not a huge issue for Uni.)

He said the stigma. Not that it was necessarily true. But from a certain point of view, it is how things appear to casual observers. Like it or not, it is the general perception you hear these days. Just not in the exact way you may be thinking above.

We are Disney park fans. If they were in our backyard, most of us could ride HM and PotC at least once or twice a day for the rest of our lives. But we have to understand that not everyone is like that. The most common thing you hear from those "middle of the pack" people - who are more than "once in a lifetimers" but not, well, like us - is that WDW is stale. They've been there/done that and in terms of major attractions it's changed very little in quite some time when it comes down to just the headliners. We just went 11 years between E-tickets. And let's face it - Disney hasn't had any "WOW" this century up until Avatar.

 

[AEfx]

I get paying extra for location. However, since about 2001 Disney brand hotel price increases have consistently outpaced the rest of the industry, and "Guests" have been (sorry for using the word) stupid enough to pay it.

You know, the other day - for the first time ever - I fact checked one of your posts. When you quoted those numbers per night Contemporary and Poly (which are absolutely ancient by hotel standards) I thought you must have mis-typed. I am absolutely bewildered that they have gone up so much in just the past couple of years since the last time I looked.

There are some really (*&@(*&# crazy people out there for them to be able to charge those prices. At those rates, I'd expect personal butler service (and I mean service, /wink /wink, if you catch my drift...) or at least a suite at a brand new property.

 

[John park hopper]

Stayed at Embasy Suite (international drive) many years ago, very nice rooms, just now out of curiosity I just checked the room rate @Embasy Suite (international drive) granted not on property $175/night, free breakfast, reception at night. I agree with you Disney has increased prices to the max and as long as people keep paying it they will continue to push the prices up and up and up. Swan on property $319 or Embasy $175 (~half the cost @ Embasy for a 5 night stay)

 

[ParentsOf4]

You know, the other day - for the first time ever - I fact checked one of your posts. When you quoted those numbers per night Contemporary and Poly (which are absolutely ancient by hotel standards) I thought you must have mis-typed. I am absolutely bewildered that they have gone up so much in just the past couple of years since the last time I looked.

There are some really (*&@(*&# crazy people out there for them to be able to charge those prices. At those rates, I'd expect personal butler service (and I mean service, /wink /wink, if you catch my drift...) or at least a suite at a brand new property.

Stayed at Embasy Suite (international drive) many years ago, very nice rooms, just now out of curiosity I just checked the room rate @Embasy Suite (international drive) granted not on property $175/night, free breakfast, reception at night. I agree with you Disney has increased prices to the max and as long as people keep paying it they will continue to push the prices up and up and up. Swan on property $319 or Embasy $175 (~half the cost @ Embasy for a 5 night stay)

To be clear, Disney should charge a premium compared to offsite hotels.

Prior to Michael Eisner taking over in 1984, the least expensive room at the Contemporary was today's equivalent of about $185/night. It was a phenomenal rate. At these kind of rates, Disney's 3 hotels were 100% occupied year-round. Offsite hotels survived largely because Disney operated so few hotels. (Disney began adding a lot more in the late 1980s and 1990s.)

After Eisner's big increases of the late 1980s, the Contemporary's least expensive room was up to today's equivalent of roughly $300/night. It stayed at about that throughout the 1990s. For location and service (which still was excellent in the 1990s), I suggest this rate was about right.

It's only since the beginning of this century that corporate Disney has raised rates appreciably faster than inflation, while at the same time looking for ways to reduce costs by lowering the standard of service. (This doesn't mean that today's service is bad, only that it's not what it used to be.)

Today, the least expensive room at the Contemporary has an average rack rate of $493/night. However, today's Disney frequently offers room discounts, something it rarely did in the past. Not all room nights are available at discounted rates, so the average actual rate is probably closer to $450/night.

I'd accept paying $300/night for room in the Contemporary's Garden Wing, but choke at $450/night. I guess that explains why I haven't stayed there in over a decade, when I paid $227/night with tax (roughly $290 in today's prices).

 

[John park hopper]

I agree Disney needs to charge more for on site lodging compared to offsite simply because they have more expenses e.g bus transportation, park security, staffing, taxes etc. I am with you the the deluxe resorts and even the moderates are getting pricey for what the rooms are. Garden Contemporary room paid 1977 $45/night. May be I have become my parents, I can hear my Dad saying I remember when XY and Z cost such and such drove me crazy --- god I hope not

 

[Donald Razorduck]

Spirited Quickees (because they are the best kind):

I see talk about CM pay, WDW prices and quality and ... and ... it is all part and parcel of the 'new normal' where economic inequality is praised, people are told they shouldn't expect living wages (just get another job!) and people who aren't even worth a million dollars (if they sold all their Disney crap) yell about protecting the billionaires and corporations from paying their fair share because they are deluded enough to envision a future that has them having that type of wealth. No, taxes are not an evil, they are a necessary part of a civilized society with social nets in place to take care of those less fortunate or those impacted by say ... a major national disaster.

As to WDW, I loved @lentesta 's post on CM pay (just hopelessly behind here right now) almost as much as I loved http://blog.touringplans.com/2017/08/31/mmm_aug2017/ ... so that's a lot! The idea that paying people a bit more impacts what you pay in a tiny way is why I will never eat a Papa John's pizza again. Not sure if you recall during the fights over the ACA when the head of the company said he would never support it because it would add one cent to the cost of a pizza. Gee, charge people a penny more and everyone he employs gets healthcare or don't and they suffer and ... as the kewl kidz say ... I can't even.

BTW, back to my best buddy (we went to school together in second grade and I protected him when other future bloggers, notably Lou 'Two Chins' Mongello, would try to beat him up for his lunch money), @derekburgan, but I am amazed every time I visit the local Disney outlet store by how much Star Wars crap they are trying to unload. Literally, the store here is about two-thirds SW merchandise at this point. Yes, much is Disney Store branded, but that is no different from what you get at WDW. No, not suggesting anything beyond Disney has too much product.

To Lenny's point about hotel rates at WDW, I do agree that discounts the last 24-30 months have seemed steeper and more desperate than in the 'recovery period' after the massive discounting following the 2007-08 economic collapse. I already have banner adds offering me rooms at the All Stars for $76 a night starting 10/29. I, personally, have never paid more than $79 plus tax for them (that was back when summer was a big season and two decades ago!)

Don't know if anyone here has mentioned it yet, but DLP finally opened Les Village Nature yesterday. Will be interesting to see how the place moves the needle on stays there. The water park aspect interests me the most. I don't see the venture interesting the typical Americans who finally visit an international outpost.

DLP has also announced major new Christmas entertainment this year, which I sadly will miss. New stage shows at both parks. Smaller version of Tokyo's Big Band Beat. New projection show at WDSP.

Saw there was a bit of a dust up over FoP being the best attraction in the world. I believe everyone is entitled to their opinions. I haven't ridden it yet. It impressed the Hillbilly who used to post here. But he certainly didn't say 'Best ride in the world.' ... And having just ridden some great rides in Shanghai and Tokyo, I'm having a wait and see attitude. I believe it will impress me. How much it will impress me is the question.

Yes, that new 'VIP' tour of DAK is offensive. But rubes with money remain WDW's most coveted audience. The people who would rather pay $600 a night for the BC versus $150 for the Swan because the former has Disney MAGIC!

You might not have a life (and possibly have serious mental issues) if you are a blogger who has eaten every item at the Fall Food and Booze Fest and taken pictures of it and thinks that he/she/it is doing a service to the world ... or if you've been to 2-3 MNSSHPs before Labor Day etc.

I will now ask for a moment of silence in honor of the death of HKDL's Buzz Lightyear attraction two days ago. If you could take the other versions worldwide with you, I'd be very grateful.

Planning a future visit to O-Town for 10 days and wondering whether it is even worth setting foot in Disney's No Name Third Gate MAGICal IP Park. ToT is great. But one attraction does not a theme park make.

Hope to respond to some posts later today/tonight!

A note on Paris, Jardin d'Acclamation is starting a major revamp where they will add rides that appeal to older folk and all will be done in Steampunk style. Not that that has anything to do with DLP unless you want a afternoon and night of some fun aside from culture and museums and this may replace that train ride out.

We are completely skiping DHS this spring. We'll be in O-Town from Sunday to Thursday before our 3 day sample tour on Disney to see if we like cruising. If we do, we'll be interested in a Disney Barcelona cruise as well as a Northern Atlantic. I do hope that Disney places a ship in Europe for an entire summer when the new ships come.

Any word on those?

 

[Donald Razorduck]

Let's use a couple of hotels at Crescent Lake (near Epcot) to appreciate the premium you pay to stay at a Disney brand resort.

Picking a random night, the least expensive room on June 1, 2018 at the Swan is $319/night including tax and $28/night resort fee. (Less with a AAA membership.)

For that same night, the least expensive room at Disney's Boardwalk Inn (located next to the Swan) is $498/night. That's 56% more than the Swan!

I get paying extra for location. However, since about 2001 Disney brand hotel price increases have consistently outpaced the rest of the industry, and "Guests" have been (sorry for using the word) stupid enough to pay it.

All one has to do is compare the Disney rates to the on site accommodations found at Efteling or Phantasialand across the pond 5o understand the lack of value.

We rent points for our on site stays but even that is getting out of hand.

 

[Casper Gutman]

Mario's going to KidZone, hopefully.

I thought Marni was suggesting there's at least a strong possibility it will wait until the third park?

 

[Casper Gutman]

He said the stigma. Not that it was necessarily true. But from a certain point of view, it is how things appear to casual observers. Like it or not, it is the general perception you hear these days. Just not in the exact way you may be thinking above.

We are Disney park fans. If they were in our backyard, most of us could ride HM and PotC at least once or twice a day for the rest of our lives. But we have to understand that not everyone is like that. The most common thing you hear from those "middle of the pack" people - who are more than "once in a lifetimers" but not, well, like us - is that WDW is stale. They've been there/done that and in terms of major attractions it's changed very little in quite some time when it comes down to just the headliners. We just went 11 years between E-tickets. And let's face it - Disney hasn't had any "WOW" this century up until Avatar.

Oh, no one denies WDW needs new rides. My problem is the suggestion here and elsewhere that AAs equal "old" and screenz equal "new." I also am not a fan of the insinuation that, to shake the "stigma" (which I'm still not convinced exists), WDW needs to start shedding its classic attractions.

It seems fairly clear that, while Uni management has a lot of problems, they recognize screenz are an issue. It also seems fairly clear that WDW sees them and bare or lightly themed (outside the queue) coasters as a cheap way to replace maintenance-heavy AA-based rides.