A Spirited 15 Rounds ...

[wannabeBelle]

It's not enough of a perk for the price. In the real world, $25 can still stretch. If this service was $15, I could see it being a niche success. But no one is going to want to break a $20 for this when services like Uber are SO much cheaper.

I agree, I cant see anything above $20.00 Uber is already less expensive than that from what I have been reading. Keep it sort of competitive, pricewise and easily accessible and I can see them doing well. I may have a plan for one on my next visit. Hopefully they will be more widespread by then!! Marie

 

[GiveMeTheMusic]

Not a lot gets mentioned about Lasseter. He has to be pulling his hair out at all that is going on at DL and WDW.

John Lasseter doesn't care. John Lasseter runs two movie studios and is passionate about getting literally any theme park attractions built based on his pet IPs from Pixar. That's it. He doesn't care about WDW or DLR as a whole, he just cares about Pixar product and even that he clearly has very low standards for.

This whole Lasseter as a theme park savior myth started in 2006 and really hasn't let up, despite zero evidence to support it.

 

[the.dreamfinder]

Are the Minnie Vans even fully rolled out yet? When we were there we were told that they're only serving the Yacht / Beach / Boardwalk resort guests at the moment. We definitely would have used them to get from Old Key West to dinner at Ohana but we weren't eligible. I think the price was pretty decent, too. It's built right on top of the Lyft infrastructure so I'm not sure how it even could die unless people were ready to proclaim that Lyft / Uber are dead at WDW too.

Depending on GM's degree of involvement with the Minnie Vans, making money may be a secondary goal. Disney World is a great venue to try out autonomous driving tech in the wild. Unlike Uber's trials in Pittsburgh, Disney controls the municipalities of BL and LBV so there's no political interference and GM happens to have a stake in Lyft.

I bring this up because of the following tweet storm from @vashsky on the tweeter.

Anyone who's been keeping up & wondering why Disney hasn't been maintaining or investing in their monorails at WDW recently,I've learned why
https://twitter.com/VashSky/status/886026858008989696

Apparently Disney is working on plans to radically rethink transportation at WDW with completion for the 50th. The answer? Self-driving cars
https://twitter.com/VashSky/status/886027249752748032

Imagine walking into a car fitted out like your family room with screens, carpet, plush chairs, whole nine yards. Then instead of waiting...
https://twitter.com/VashSky/status/886028434396164096

..for a bus or monorail with limited destinations,this car whisks u away to a park, hotel or shopping center and right up to the front gate.
https://twitter.com/VashSky/status/886028717377560576

While en-route, Disney uses your Magic Band to give you details on your destination (available or pending reservations, wait-times, etc).
https://twitter.com/VashSky/status/886029003739418624

Obviously this would require a substantial amount of capital and infrastructure which is where these monorail maintenance budgets are going.
https://twitter.com/VashSky/status/886029240755290112

But rest assured, the upside from this is that getting WDW will never have been so easy, effortless and comfortable. #TimesTheyAreAChanging
https://twitter.com/VashSky/status/886029632931209216

Disney views the monorails as legacy tech from a bygone era & view S-D cars in following in Walt's forward-thinking transportation footsteps
https://twitter.com/VashSky/status/886030809546620932

 

[the.dreamfinder]

John Lasseter doesn't care. John Lasseter runs two movie studios and is passionate about getting literally any theme park attractions built based on his pet IPs from Pixar. That's it. He doesn't care about WDW or DLR as a whole, he just cares about Pixar product and even that he clearly has very low standards for.

This whole Lasseter as a theme park savior myth started in 2006 and really hasn't let up, despite zero evidence to support it.

The Pixar acquisition wasn't the NeXT Computer/Apple "reverse merger" that it was believed to be. John never had the power that the above narrative would imply. Iger's Disney is just a distribution company that rams IP through its various business units and some of them do great work bringing beloved characters and stories to different mediums (see Disney Theatrical), but its mostly stuff for the sake of "synergy".

 

[Hatbox Ghostbuster]

John Lasseter doesn't care. John Lasseter runs two movie studios and is passionate about getting literally any theme park attractions built based on his pet IPs from Pixar. That's it. He doesn't care about WDW or DLR as a whole, he just cares about Pixar product and even that he clearly has very low standards for.

This whole Lasseter as a theme park savior myth started in 2006 and really hasn't let up, despite zero evidence to support it.

John L is an interesting animal. In many ways, he is looked at as the man who saved Disney animation. Fine, I'll give him that before he came on board, DFA was in a bad way.

But, as far as the rest of the company, he is more like the tubby, (but oh so jovial) bully who stomps into the playground, dumps his own personal toys into the sandbox and says "we're gonna play with THESE now whether you like it or not!"

 

[CaptainAmerica]

Ithaca and IU are very much in the 'right schools' category

Ithica college is a school for rich kids without good grades so they can get their sheepskin and is about 44k per year.

IU while a state school is highly selective and out of state tuition is about 46K

We are not talking low end schools here

I'm not saying they're trash, but usually when people talking about the "right schools" for senior executives at a company the size of TWDC, they're talking about Harvard, Wharton, Booth, Stanford, Kellogg, Sloan.

 

[EPCOTCenterLover]

At least for me, Cars Land saved California Adventure from the disaster it was. As nice as Buena Vista Street is - and it is- its secondary.

 

[the.dreamfinder]

I'm not saying they're trash, but usually when people talking about the "right schools" for senior executives at a company the size of TWDC, they're talking about Harvard, Wharton, Booth, Stanford, Kellogg, Sloan.

Many members of the Strategic Planning group went to those schools and their impact on the company has been profoundly negative.

 

[ParentsOf4]

But Disney isn't charging what you think Disney is charging for a Deluxe hotel once you make the relevant adjustments.

Wilderness Lodge Courtyard View for seven nights during regular season (rack rate, pre-tax) is $3,100.
25% room-only promotion = ($775)
Rental car, 8 days @ $40 per day = ($320)
Theme Park parking adjustment, 8 days @ $20 per day = ($160)

That gets you down to an effective rate per-night of about $260. Not cheap, but I think it's a fairer (more fair) comparison than looking at an undiscounted rack rate theme park view room in the Polynesian on Christmas week. I think $260 is perfectly reasonable for the theming and proximity to the theme parks of the Wilderness Lodge.

Let's look at this from a non Disney deluxe hotel perspective. Let's look at the nearby Four Seasons:

Discounts - Deluxe hotels are not immune from offering discounts. The Four Seasons offers a 4th free night with every 3-night stay; 25%. It also offers 20% off with 90-day advanced purchase.

Car rentals - The Four Seasons offers complementary theme park transportation. (What drives me crazy is the number of deluxe resorts that charge for parking!) However, I do believe you have to pay for transportation to and from the airport. Disney has Disney's Magical Express!

Theme park parking - not needed at the Four Seasons; see above.

I noticed that you selected the Wilderness Lodge, Disney's smallest room size (344 sq. ft.) and least expensive Deluxe Resort.

The Four Seasons rooms start at 500 sq. ft.

Let's use the more comparable Grand Floridian (440 sq. ft.). More than 10% smaller than the Four Seasons, but I'll cut the Grand Floridian some slack.

For a random weeknight in September, the Four Seasons starts at $499/night. The Grand Floridian starts at $574/night.

I'm not trying to be overly critical, only suggesting that you make a fair comparison.

And I am using the word "fair" loosely. Frankly, service at the Four Seasons puts the Grand Floridian to shame.

 

[CaptainAmerica]

Many members of the Strategic Planning group went to those schools and their impact on the company has been profoundly negative.

I wasn't making a claim good-or-bad in that regard. My only point was in response to whether or not George K. is part of the "boy's club."

Let's look at this from a non Disney deluxe hotel perspective. Let's look at the nearby Four Seasons:

Discounts - Deluxe hotels are not immune from offering discounts. The Four Seasons offers a 4th free night with every 3-night stay; 25%. It also offers 20% off with 90-day advanced purchase.

Car rentals - The Four Seasons offers complementary theme park transportation. (What drives me crazy is the number of deluxe resorts that charge for parking!) However, I do believe you have to pay for transportation to and from the airport. Disney has Disney's Magical Express!

Theme park parking - not needed at the Four Seasons; see above.

I noticed that you selected the Wilderness Lodge, Disney's smallest room size (344 sq. ft.) and least expensive Deluxe Resort.

The Four Seasons rooms start at 500 sq. ft.

Let's use the more comparable Grand Floridian (440 sq. ft.). More than 10% smaller than the Four Seasons, but I'll cut the Grand Floridian some slack.

For a random weeknight in September, the Four Seasons starts at $499/night. The Grand Floridian starts at $574/night.

I'm not trying to be overly critical, only suggesting that you make a fair comparison.

And I am using the word "fair" loosely. Frankly, service at the Four Seasons puts the Grand Floridian to shame.

A few things.

1. I'm not trying to make any kind of objective claim that Disney's deluxe resorts are a better value than anywhere else, nor am I even trying to say they're a "good" value in and of themselves. I simply object to the surface-level claims that people tend to make by comparing the rack rates of a WDW deluxe resort with the rack rates of some other luxury resort chain elsewhere. People can still make the claims that such-and-such a third party hotel is a better value, but they should do so from a position of intellectual honesty, as you've done here. You'll get no argument from me that the Grand Floridian is exorbitantly expensive.

2. I think the comparison to the Four Seasons muddies the waters in terms of where this conversation started. We were talking about the expectations of guests who have stayed in luxury resorts elsewhere in their lives, not a hypothetical guest trying to decide whether he or she should stay at the Four Seasons WDW or the Grand Floridian. Thus, things like theme park transportation offered at the Four Seasons WDW aren't relevant to my point because we're talking about guests who are used to the Four Seasons in Chicago or the St. Regis New York, where such things don't come into play.

3. I know the term gets made fun of a lot on this board and these threads in particular, but there's real value to the sense of "magic" many guests feel when they stay at a Walt Disney World Resort hotel. For me, that feeling is the strongest at Animal Kingdom Lodge, Wilderness Lodge, and Polynesian. The reason I picked the Wilderness Lodge for my comparison is because I didn't want to muddy the waters with Standard versus Savanna View prices at Animal Kingdom Lodge or the fact that the Polynesian is on the Monorail loop.

4. I don't know about your family, but "service" as it relates to these resorts often translates to "more fancy," and I don't know that "fancy" is what a family traveling with kids wants to experience on their Disney vacation. My daughter is extremely well behaved in restaurants but I'd rather take her to Chef Mickey's than Jiko because it's more comfortable and, frankly, fun for us. The Four Seasons is gorgeous but it's also stuffy and not-that-much-fun-looking. It might be my choice on a honeymoon or anniversary trip with my wife, but it's not where I'd want to bring my kids. Honestly, if the Four Seasons, the Grand Floridian, and Animal Kingdom Lodge were all exactly the same price with the same transportation and everything else, I'd still choose Animal Kingdom Lodge.

 

[Mike S]

Many members of the Strategic Planning group went to those schools and their impact on the company has been profoundly negative.

Walt Disney himself didn't go to college at all right?

 

[the.dreamfinder]

Walt Disney himself didn't go to college at all right?

Yes. He took classes at the Kansas City Art Institute as a child and the Chicago Academy of the Fine Arts as a teenager, but he never received a degree.

 

[WDWTrojan]

Its obvious the pressler era is back with a vengeance. Trouble is there are not enough 'old school' Disney people left to resist the malign influence of Chappie and his ilk.

This isn't even close to the Pressler era. Get back to me when you see them buying off-the-shelf carnival rides

I wasn't making a claim good-or-bad in that regard. My only point was in response to whether or not George K. is part of the "boy's club."


A few things.

1. I'm not trying to make any kind of objective claim that Disney's deluxe resorts are a better value than anywhere else, nor am I even trying to say they're a "good" value in and of themselves. I simply object to the surface-level claims that people tend to make by comparing the rack rates of a WDW deluxe resort with the rack rates of some other luxury resort chain elsewhere. People can still make the claims that such-and-such a third party hotel is a better value, but they should do so from a position of intellectual honesty, as you've done here. You'll get no argument from me that the Grand Floridian is exorbitantly expensive.

2. I think the comparison to the Four Seasons muddies the waters in terms of where this conversation started. We were talking about the expectations of guests who have stayed in luxury resorts elsewhere in their lives, not a hypothetical guest trying to decide whether he or she should stay at the Four Seasons WDW or the Grand Floridian. Thus, things like theme park transportation offered at the Four Seasons WDW aren't relevant to my point because we're talking about guests who are used to the Four Seasons in Chicago or the St. Regis New York, where such things don't come into play.

3. I know the term gets made fun of a lot on this board and these threads in particular, but there's real value to the sense of "magic" many guests feel when they stay at a Walt Disney World Resort hotel. For me, that feeling is the strongest at Animal Kingdom Lodge, Wilderness Lodge, and Polynesian. The reason I picked the Wilderness Lodge for my comparison is because I didn't want to muddy the waters with Standard versus Savanna View prices at Animal Kingdom Lodge or the fact that the Polynesian is on the Monorail loop.

4. I don't know about your family, but "service" as it relates to these resorts often translates to "more fancy," and I don't know that "fancy" is what a family traveling with kids wants to experience on their Disney vacation. My daughter is extremely well behaved in restaurants but I'd rather take her to Chef Mickey's than Jiko because it's more comfortable and, frankly, fun for us. The Four Seasons is gorgeous but it's also stuffy and not-that-much-fun-looking. It might be my choice on a honeymoon or anniversary trip with my wife, but it's not where I'd want to bring my kids. Honestly, if the Four Seasons, the Grand Floridian, and Animal Kingdom Lodge were all exactly the same price with the same transportation and everything else, I'd still choose Animal Kingdom Lodge.

I disagree with some of these points. As someone who has stayed at the Four Seasons in Chicago and the St. Regis in New York, I'd equally look forward to a trip to the Grand Floridian or Animal Kingdom Lodge 10-15 years ago. However, the problem at hand is that Disney has rested on their laurels, invested all their capital into DVC growth and failed by not keeping up with what luxury travelers in 2017 expect: pillow top mattresses, uniquely designed pool areas (Stormalong and Polynesian exempt), modern spas, etc.

Service has been on a downward spiral for years, with front desk became a genius bar for Magic Bands instead of a real hotel front desk and cast members experienced in hospitality being replaced by fresh-faced college programmers whose sole hotel experience is the one time they stayed at a Holiday Inn on their school band trip. When you pay $700 a night for a room at the Grand Floridian, you should be entitled to a better level of service than you would get at the All-Star resort. In 2017, unless you pay for concierge service, you don't.

Here's a quick tip as it relates to seeing how far service has plummeted: try calling the front desk from your Disney hotel room. Just try. Spoiler alert: you can't. "Guest Services" connects you to the WDW operator who has no working knowledge of your resort and must get special permission to connect you to your hotel's front desk. It can be beyond frustrating. The worst Motel 6 at least allows you to call the front desk from your room.

Disney found, rightfully so, that this was a mistake and it would take years to course correct. They also probably noticed that many of their would-be deluxe resort guests were staying at the Waldorf, Hilton, Ritz Carlton or other property. It is this reason they even gave FS the ability to build on property as a way to lure some of these people back in the Disney "bubble."

 

[CaptainAmerica]

I disagree with some of these points. As someone who has stayed at the Four Seasons in Chicago and the St. Regis in New York, I'd equally look forward to a trip to the Grand Floridian or Animal Kingdom Lodge 10-15 years ago. However, the problem at hand is that Disney has rested on their laurels, invested all their capital into DVC growth and failed by not keeping up with what luxury travelers in 2017 expect: pillow top mattresses, uniquely designed pool areas (Stormalong and Polynesian exempt), modern spas, etc.

That's not "standard luxury," that's just personal preference. If a resort tried to give me a plush / pillow-top bed, I'd never stay there again.

Here's a quick tip as it relates to seeing how far service has plummeted: try calling the front desk from your Disney hotel room. Just try. Spoiler alert: you can't. "Guest Services" connects you to the WDW operator who has no working knowledge of your resort and must get special permission to connect you to your hotel's front desk. It can be beyond frustrating. The worst Motel 6 at least allows you to call the front desk from your room.

This is not accurate / current. I agree with you that this was a mistake but Disney has since corrected it. I was just there 8/4-8/12. When I called the front desk, I got the Old Key West front desk. When I called housekeeping and maintenance, I got a somewhat-centralized Old Key West / Saratoga Springs operator. It wasn't the central phone bank that I experienced several trips ago. They even went a step further. The front desk called me about once every two or three days just to check in and see how things were going. The cast member who called was the exact woman I checked in with on arrival, so I know for a fact that it was actually the front desk and not someone lying to me. And this was at Old Key West, which you'd probably expect to have the worst service of any Disney Deluxe Resort due to its nature as a DVC property as well as its sprawling layout.

 

[No Name]

My gripe about any form of paid transportation from Disney is that they may be less inclined to provide good free options.

Same with paid fastpass. They'd be less inclined to get wait times down.

It may sound cynical, but bad things happen when a company charges for a "premium version" of something free.

 

[GiveMeTheMusic]

Honestly, if the Four Seasons, the Grand Floridian, and Animal Kingdom Lodge were all exactly the same price with the same transportation and everything else, I'd still choose Animal Kingdom Lodge.

Same. AKL (Jambo House in particular) is still incomparable. I'm an animal lover and it's the only resort I ever want to stay at.

That said, guest service has declined noticeably since I first started staying at AKL. Not enough for me to give it up when I do visit, but it's there.

 

[Kman101]

I never felt Lasseter was the park savior that many wanted him to be.

 

[Kman101]

Same. AKL (Jambo House in particular) is still incomparable. I'm an animal lover and it's the only resort I ever want to stay at.

That said, guest service has declined noticeably since I first started staying at AKL. Not enough for me to give it up when I do visit, but it's there.

Service has for sure gone down. I see it in trip reports all the time. It seems a very mixed bag. But that's what happens when you have a high turnover rate, CP'ers who don't care (not all, no one needs to tell me that) and putting people in positions they aren't qualified for. And many times leadership, or lack there of, comes from the top and trickles it's way down. If your manager doesn't care, is overworked and underpaid ... it's such a mixture of things but it's definitely gone down. You need certain types of people to work in the hospitality and customer service industry. You also need to make your employees feel valued and wanted. Which makes them treat guests like they're wanted and valued.

I noticed so many miserable castmembers this last week. I don't always, but many stood out to me. Yes, we all have bad days. We all get tired of being overworked, underpaid and the Florida heat doesn't help, but man, so many looked like they'd rather be elsewhere.

 

[Kman101]

@WDW1974 I know you still have a lot to go over but any word on Enchanted Tiki Room?

 

[COProgressFan]

I don't think anyone's calling them (Minnie Vans) failures yet. I personally don't see them lasting long-term but who knows? I have nothing to base that on, just my gut feeling. What happens when $20 becomes $25, then $35 and so on?

I saw a few out and about Thurs-Sat when I was there. I'm sure they're nice and being used. But I also thought the Express Bus service was being used. I guess maybe it wasn't (and with that, prices naturally inched up quickly so maybe that lessened their usage) what they wanted it to be, or they think Minnie Vans can take that place?

I saw many vans across property last week. At this point, we were told they are still being tested at Boardwalk/Yacht/Beach.

For those traveling with kids maybe 6/7 and under, who need a car or booster seat (or 2), at $20 this is generally the same and often cheaper than using the Uber+carseat service, which we used several times. So in that sense, this is actually a great value for families traveling with younger children.

Even without car seats, I can see how some might feel more comfortable with a Disney CM driver in a Disney authorized vehicle, rather than Uber and be willing to pay a few bucks extra. I'm not sure I would, but I can see the appeal.

The problem, as has been mentioned, becomes when the price of the Minnie vans gets jacked up to $30 or $40 after the test period, which I'm sure will inevitably happen sooner rather than later. I don't see the vans going away at all, however. I think there is a good amount of demand for people who are willing to shell out some extra money once or twice a trip to get to where they need to be for dinners / water parks / or Springs without the bus hassles, and save themselves huge amounts of time (which is exact same reason so many use Uber).