A Spirited 15 Rounds ...

[The Mom]

I agree that there's always going to be those who for whatever reasons jump on the bandwagon and fabricate their own stories. But for those who have been through it, the trauma and memories never really leave, not matter how the victim tries to suppress them, and sometimes all it takes is hearing others' accounts to bring those memories back to the surface.

I agree that there is a safety in numbers aspect to this - some people finally feel it's safe - in that they are not going to be shamed, but rather their abuser will be - to reveal things that they've kept bottled up over the years. I'm just concerned about those who have not really suffered abuse joining into the "me too" movement. Even if they are misremembering events after the fact, so believe it really happened. I have seen this happen in my own life. People who tell a story that is absolutely false - yet could pass a lie detector because they truly believe it happened that way. They were so convinced that I started doubting my own personal experience of events.

 

[Nemo14]

I agree that there is a safety in numbers aspect to this - some people finally feel it's safe - in that they are not going to be shamed, but rather their abuser will be - to reveal things that they've kept bottled up over the years. I'm just concerned about those who have not really suffered abuse joining into the "me too" movement. Even if they are misremembering events after the fact, so believe it really happened. I have seen this happen in my own life. People who tell a story that is absolutely false - yet could pass a lie detector because they truly believe it happened that way. They were so convinced that I started doubting my own personal experience of events.

I've seen that too unfortunately.

 

[lazyboy97o]

I've seen that too unfortunately.

The fact is that we all assume our memory is more accurate than it is in actuality.

 

[spacemt354]

The fact is that we all assume our memory is more accurate than it is in actuality.

Traumatic/emotional memories are powerful and linked to heightened amygdala activity. Many times those neuronal connections made produce a more vivid memory of the event, (e.g. people remembering exactly where they were on 9/11.)

False accusations, in my opinion, have less to do with faulty memory, and more to do with the superficial desires of the accuser. Unfortunately, that is a negative potential side-effect of this newfound attentive audience for past victims.

 

[Animaniac93-98]

None of us were around for the Salem Witch Trials.

Speak for yourself!

First the name calling, then the cauldron snatching, then the dunking and the pressing... thank God it's all over now!

Though I still have a hard time looking at the guy on the oatmeal box.

 

[MotherOfBirds]

I agree that there is a safety in numbers aspect to this - some people finally feel it's safe - in that they are not going to be shamed, but rather their abuser will be - to reveal things that they've kept bottled up over the years. I'm just concerned about those who have not really suffered abuse joining into the "me too" movement. Even if they are misremembering events after the fact, so believe it really happened. I have seen this happen in my own life. People who tell a story that is absolutely false - yet could pass a lie detector because they truly believe it happened that way. They were so convinced that I started doubting my own personal experience of events.

I misremembered nothing.

Don't ever say such a thing to people who have the courage to come out about the abuse they have suffered and don't presume to know better than they do. This is why abusers are allowed to hurt so many people over the course of years.

 

[The Mom]

I misremembered nothing.

Don't ever say such a thing to people who have the courage to come out about the abuse they have suffered and don't presume to know better than they do. This is why abusers are allowed to hurt so many people over the course of years.

So I should presume that every single accuser is telling the truth, or some are purposely lying? I would prefer to give some the benefit of the doubt and think that some are just misremembering, rather than being evil and malicious.

 

[Pixieish]

I misremembered nothing.

Don't ever say such a thing to people who have the courage to come out about the abuse they have suffered and don't presume to know better than they do. This is why abusers are allowed to hurt so many people over the course of years.

I'm so sorry you were abused.

But there are instances (especially involving mental illness) where a person believes one thing happened, when in fact it was the complete opposite. People (especially those with mental illness) convince themselves that the untruth is fact because they are unable to accept reality - whether the reality of their own behavior/actions or something else, it comes down to the same thing. People lie to themselves for a multitude of reasons, but they can and sometimes do eventually believe their own lie to be the truth. For example, my husband is convinced that his money provided us with our house. The money for the down payment (and payments) came from my grandfather. He's also convinced he has a degree, but in fact dropped out of college because he couldn't pass a computer class (I was furious when he told me he'd dropped out). It happens.

 

[Cousin Huet]

I misremembered nothing.

Don't ever say such a thing to people who have the courage to come out about the abuse they have suffered and don't presume to know better than they do. This is why abusers are allowed to hurt so many people over the course of years.

We have seen enough times in the past where people completely made accusations up for whatever reasons to know that not every single accusation is backed by facts. I think we need to tread lightly in any circumstance where serious allegations are made in order to get to the truth without destroying anyone for no good reason and that goes for both parties. I do not want to see the public accuse someone of lying OR assume the accused is guilty without proper evidence. Each individual is entitled to their opinion but when it comes to actually handing out punishment then there has to be burden of proof.

 

[spacemt354]

So I should presume that every single accuser is telling the truth, or some are purposely lying? I would prefer to give some the benefit of the doubt and think that some are just misremembering, rather than being evil and malicious.

The best way to handle it in my opinion is innocent until proven guilty, in both directions.

Support of the accusers having the courage to speak out on their abuse, but also not rush to absolute judgement on the accused unless the evidence suffices. The issue with stories from 40 years ago for example is they are hard to 'prove' beyond a he said/she said. So each is a case by case basis.

Presumptions of guilt in either direction I don't think helps anybody.

 

[the.dreamfinder]

So I should presume that every single accuser is telling the truth, or some are purposely lying? I would prefer to give some the benefit of the doubt and think that some are just misremembering, rather than being evil and malicious.

Let’s throw some cold hard facts on this before it gets vicious.

Consider the following article on false rape accusations from Quartz.
https://qz.com/980766/the-truth-about-false-rape-accusations/

Now, some facts:
FACT: Academic studies put the false report rate between 2-10%. (UMass Boston/Northeastern U paper, cited by Quartz)

FACT: The majority of rapes are not reported to law enforcement. (US DoJ)

FACT: SIX in one thousand rapists will go to jail for their crime. (US DoJ)

This IS real, unlike imagined notions of armies of “victims” rushing to falsely accuse individuals of rape.

 

[englanddg]

Let’s throw some cold hard facts on this before it gets vicious.

Consider the following article on false rape accusations from Quartz.
https://qz.com/980766/the-truth-about-false-rape-accusations/

Now, some facts:
FACT: Academic studies put the false report rate between 2-10%. (UMass Boston/Northeastern U paper, cited by Quartz)

FACT: The majority of rapes are not reported to law enforcement. (US DoJ)

FACT: SIX in one thousand rapists will go to jail for their crime. (US DoJ)

This IS real, unlike imagined notions of armies of “victims” rushing to falsely accuse individuals of rape.

Most of these allegations are not of rape.

 

[the.dreamfinder]

Most of these allegations are not of rape.

True, not every allegation against these men are rape, but many individuals, including Harvey Weinstein and Brett Ratner, have also been accused of rape at least once.

 

[englanddg]

True, not every allegation against these men are rape, but many individuals, including Harvey Weinstein and Brett Ratner, have also been accused of rape at least once.

Well, the answer is simple.

We should teach men not to rape.

 

[Mike S]

Well, the answer is simple.

We should teach men not to rape.

Can’t fix stupid. Some us have less control over our animalistic urges than others and power seems to amplify it.

If all of this tells us anything it’s this: no matter how highly we think of ourselves and try to deny the truth by hiding behind our rules of society, we are all still very much animals with certain instincts and we always will be. At least until science finds a way to hack into a brain and completely eliminate our animalistic nature. Until then, this will continue to happen.

I’m not defending anyone btw.

 

[Quinnmac000]

Well, the answer is simple.

We should teach men not to rape.

Its not like men only rape...in regards to rape and even sexual harassment often numbers are skewed male due to the facts males don't report when they are assaulted or harassed. Its due to stigma and culture that men are tough and its shameful for a women to rape them. Studies have shown that out of males who were assaulted almost 70% were conducted by females.

The authors first present what they learned from the The National Intimate Partner and Sexual Violence Survey, an ongoing, nationally representative survey conducted by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention that measures both lifetime victimization and victimization within the 12 months prior to questioning. Only the 2010 report provides data on the perpetrator’s sex. It found that over their lifetime, women were vastly more likely to experience abuse perpetrated by men, as were male victims who were penetrated without their consent. “But among men reporting other forms of sexual victimization, 68.6% reported female perpetrators,” the paper reports, while among men reporting being made to penetrate, “the form of nonconsensual sex that men are much more likely to experience in their lifetime ... 79.2% of victimized men reported female perpetrators.”

Just pointing out anyone can rape anyone.

 

[smile]

We should teach men not to rape.

how novel.


like to think that all this recently may give a would-be predator pause...
but deviance is pervasive around the world, not merely hollywood.

yet many instances are so distinct, it's hard to speak in generalities

 

[Nemo14]

Rape is not so much responding to "animalistic" urges as it is about overpowering.

 

[Mike S]

Rape is not so much responding to "animalistic" urges as it is about overpowering.

And animals don’t try to dominate others which would pretty much be equivalent to overpowering?

This all goes back to what we as a species used to be and in some ways still are. Search your feelings, you know it to be true. We’re animals.

Edit: there’s a reason that another term for a rapist is “sexual predator.”

 

[bclane]

With most of these recent news items, multiple women are reporting similar stories about these creeps. It would be hard for me not to believe them in these situations.. The only thing that has been a concern for me is that some people are lumping animals like Weinstein in with one time idiots like Ben Affleck. Sure what Affleck did was completely wrong and i’m glad he was called out for it, but he is in no way the monster that some of these other repeat predators are. As long as we can bifarcate these things appropriately we should see a permanent cultural shift that has been a long time coming.