A Flap in the Right Direction

SirGoofy

Member
That is Iger's bread and butter, which is why it appears to me that TWDC is putting the emphasis back on its roots. Animation and film are what made this company what it is. It drove the success of the P&R and Consumer Products segments. I think when the studio entertainment segment gets back on track with both animation and live action films, which appears to be a reality, we will begin to see that reflected in P&R.

Live action is what worries me. Disney will always be tops in animation, especially with Pixar, but the live action offerings have been so terrible for a good while now, and honestly it's one of the things I don't see improvement coming.
 

dxwwf3

Well-Known Member
Take away Pirates and I can't even think of the last time I was excited about a live action Disney film. And really when I hear a movie is being made by "Walt Disney Pictures", I usually lose all interest in it right there. The Disney name most definitely does not mean quality in the motion picture industry, animation or live action. In animation, the Disney name means inferior work right off the bad to me. Pixar and Dreamworks are higher thought of by a mile to me.
 

markjohns1

Member
Live action is what worries me. Disney will always be tops in animation, especially with Pixar, but the live action offerings have been so terrible for a good while now, and honestly it's one of the things I don't see improvement coming.
I'm right there with you. I cringe when I see the Disney logo in the theater, and the preview that follows is for Beverly Hills Chihuahua. G-Force really isn't helping either. I still think there is reason to be optimistic. Getting Dreamworks on board will help, and also allowing vetted Pixar directors dabble in live action will go a long way. I'm really excited for Alice, Tron 2, and John Carter of Mars. Prince of Persia has potential for commercial success (See: Transformers). Jury is still out on The Sorcerer's Apprentice, 20K, and Swiss Family Robinson, but at least they won't have talking animals (hopefully!).

And I stumbled across this interview with Lasseter himself. The first section, "The Beginning," definitely conveys to me that due credit should be given to Iger for convincing Pixar to come on board with Disney.
 

Captain Chaos

Well-Known Member
I'm right there with you. I cringe when I see the Disney logo in the theater, and the preview that follows is for Beverly Hills Chihuahua. G-Force really isn't helping either. I still think there is reason to be optimistic. Getting Dreamworks on board will help, and also allowing vetted Pixar directors dabble in live action will go a long way. I'm really excited for Alice, Tron 2, and John Carter of Mars. Prince of Persia has potential for commercial success (See: Transformers). Jury is still out on The Sorcerer's Apprentice, 20K, and Swiss Family Robinson, but at least they won't have talking animals (hopefully!).

And I stumbled across this interview with Lasseter himself. The first section, "The Beginning," definitely conveys to me that due credit should be given to Iger for convincing Pixar to come on board with Disney.

I am sure Dreamworks is only a distribution deal.... Prince of Persia could be good, but I thought Narnia was going to be huge for Disney, and they dumped it... I'm looking forward to seeing previews for Sorcerer's Apprentice.. But lately it seems that if it isn't a story about a princess, Disney is lost... I hope they can turn it around...
 

The Conundrum

New Member
This keeps getting brought up, but it really is not the case. In hindsight it is a no brainer, but it was a huge risk and investment (someone claimed earlier that Disney "overpaid"). You are carelessly undercutting Iger's impact on Disney's ability to make this move in an effort to prove your point. Claiming that anyone could have made it happen is simply false.

What hindsight? I was on the forums and involved in the voting since the Save Disney campaign started all the way through the buyout it was always a nobrainer and one of the reasons the shareholders got fed up with Eisner was that he was being an a-hole and driving away talent (Pixar) rather than reaching an agreement. The deal Iger made with Jobs is absurd, he basically gave away Disney to Pixar to save his own hide. Steve Jobs got the sweetest deal in the world. Any non-eisner CEO would have reached a deal with Pixar but Iger basically went up to them and was like "please i'll give you whatever you want just make a deal with me" thats not talent. Thats desperation.
http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/06_06/b3970001.htm

First of all, Eisner has nothing to do with anything Pixar was doing, as Disney only had a distribution deal. Secondly, that is such a pointless and subjective argument. Pixar has hit after hit, and thanks to Iger TWDC benefits tremendously from it.
Jeffrey Katzenberg had a hand in the development of the original Toy Story. They have been using his "make it a buddy flick" formula for every film since then.

No CEO is flawless, and I don't think anyone has been claiming that (I know I haven't been). I do think some are only looking at P&R when making their judgements, but that is just one piece of the pie. And isn't Rasulo the actual problem when it comes to P&R? Sure Iger hasn't replaced him, but lay the blame where it belongs.

The blame falls entirely on Iger for his complacency and willing to turn the blind eye toward the state of the American parks so long as the money is coming in. Iger has openly admitted he isn't a creative type and his attitude is basically that people like Rasolu are experts when it comes to theme parks. Iger needs to either bring Rasolu inline or fire him and find someone truely pationate about guest experinces and maintaining high standards (examples: Jim Macphee, Matt Ouimet, etc.)
 

markjohns1

Member
Take away Pirates and I can't even think of the last time I was excited about a live action Disney film. And really when I hear a movie is being made by "Walt Disney Pictures", I usually lose all interest in it right there. The Disney name most definitely does not mean quality in the motion picture industry, animation or live action. In animation, the Disney name means inferior work right off the bad to me. Pixar and Dreamworks are higher thought of by a mile to me.
That's exactly how I feel too, which is a shame. Hopefully in 5 years we won't be able to say the same thing!
Nope.
It was part of the Pixar deal, and was pretty much demanded by JL.
No way Iger was going to say no to JL and Jobs.
Which I still think reflects positively on Iger. It takes a lot of marbles to pay 7.4 billion dollars for a company and let one of their executives take over your own animation studio and Imagineering division.
I am sure Dreamworks is only a distribution deal.... Prince of Persia could be good, but I thought Narnia was going to be huge for Disney, and they dumped it... I'm looking forward to seeing previews for Sorcerer's Apprentice.. But lately it seems that if it isn't a story about a princess, Disney is lost... I hope they can turn it around...
It is only a distribution deal, but that is how the Pixar relationship started as well. There is that Spielberg tie too.
 

The Conundrum

New Member
If it has to do with animation, I'd say Lasseter. But then you have to credit Iger for choosing Lasseter. If TPatF/Rapunzel are the hits they appear to be then they both share credit IMO. Of course there is a ton of other projects in the hopper that appear equally as promising. Tim Burton/Depp in AiW, live action releases from Pixar, the conclusion of the TS trilogy and much much more. Tron, 20K, Newt, WtP...........

AHAHHAHAHAHAHAHA

Did you even bother to read the latest blueskydisney article about it? Im shocked since I know thats your favorite website
 

Captain Chaos

Well-Known Member
That's exactly how I feel too, which is a shame. Hopefully in 5 years we won't be able to say the same thing!

Which I still think reflects positively on Iger. It takes a lot of marbles to pay 7.4 billion dollars for a company and let one of their executives take over your own animation studio and Imagineering division.
It is only a distribution deal, but that is how the Pixar relationship started as well. There is that Spielberg tie too.

We will see what happens with Dreamworks, but, since it is only distribution, this won't help Disney's animation department or feature film department... If they eventually swallow up Dreamworks, then Speilberg will leave and Disney can concentrate on Shrek the 10th... :rolleyes:
 

krankenstein

Well-Known Member
We will see what happens with Dreamworks, but, since it is only distribution, this won't help Disney's animation department or feature film department... If they eventually swallow up Dreamworks, then Speilberg will leave and Disney can concentrate on Shrek the 10th... :rolleyes:

I thought the deal with Dreamworks didn't involve the animation studio.

Don't even get me started with Shrek! :brick:
 

markjohns1

Member
What hindsight? I was on the forums and involved in the voting since the Save Disney campaign started all the way through the buyout it was always a nobrainer and one of the reasons the shareholders got fed up with Eisner was that he was being an a-hole and driving away talent (Pixar) rather than reaching an agreement. The deal Iger made with Jobs is absurd, he basically gave away Disney to Pixar to save his own hide. Steve Jobs got the sweetest deal in the world. Any non-eisner CEO would have reached a deal with Pixar but Iger basically went up to them and was like "please i'll give you whatever you want just make a deal with me" thats not talent. Thats desperation
So Jobs and Lasseter will give him credit, but you won't. I think I'll agree with those first two guys. :rolleyes:

And is there any reason why you wouldn't want Lasseter in charge of animation and Imagineering? Or to have Jobs, one of the most innovative in the tech industry, have a stake in your company? Pretty much sounds like a Win-Win. Although, he could've always held out for a better deal... that certainly helped Eisner out.
Jeffrey Katzenberg had a hand in the development of the original Toy Story. They have been using his "make it a buddy flick" formula for every film since then.
So are you implying that Pixar is not talented? I don't understand what point this is supposed to make.
The blame falls entirely on Iger for his complacency and willing to turn the blind eye toward the state of the American parks so long as the money is coming in. Iger has openly admitted he isn't a creative type and his attitude is basically that people like Rasolu are experts when it comes to theme parks. Iger needs to either bring Rasolu inline or fire him and find someone truely pationate about guest experinces and maintaining high standards (examples: Jim Macphee, Matt Ouimet, etc.)
I agree that changes are needed in P&R. It just seems that I am confident in Iger's abilities and you are not. I am optimistic that it will start to get TLC and you are not. Works for me.
 

EPCOT Explorer

New Member
Iger will prove to be much better. You will never know it however because he shuns the spotlight and will give other people credit for the successes. Kinda the opposite of Eisner.

I feel bad for Eisner. He really could have had quite a legacy.
So...the entire late 80's and 90's in which most of us draw our best memories and experiences from, are nothing to you?

I seem to remember in the EPCOT All the Time thread you gushing and planning a WoM pavilion with me and how it reused TT, and WoM into something new. You obviously have fond memories of this time, too, no? How is that not a leagcy? Eisner WAY overstayed his welcome, but he did a ton of good for the company.

Eisner's good far out weighs his bad. The man wasn't perfect, and I agree that Frank Wells is the unsung hero of the "Disney Decade," but you have to give credit where it is due. Eisner was an excellent leader and exactly what the company needed at the time. Being the eternal optimist you are, you have to see that.

The jury is still out on Iger. So far, he has done some good things, but he is far from flawless himself. :shrug:

Right. At least he ACTS like a good CEO and "father" to the company. Even watching him parade something I dislike- D23- he does FANTASTIC in showmanship in the Promos and looked great on The View. Very Walt Like in that aspect, I was pleasantly surprised. Now he just has to act more Walt Like in OTHER aspects...
 

WDW1974

Well-Known Member
Honestly, you really can't put a price on the talent Disney acquired. TWDC will get huge financial returns on that investment as it is. You can thank Eisner for that price anyways.

Buying Pixar was a NO-BRAINER ... period. Anyone could have seen that Pixar was the new Disney. Even a crazy fanboi.

It's almost insulting to refer to them as simply a "movie production team." You keep jumping on the idea that creativity is everything, and Iger was integral in acquiring some of the most creative people in the film and tech industry. Iger is saving WDFA/WDAS from Eisner's train wreck.

Saving it? The Studios, beyond Pixar, are a disaster. Cook is likely to retire by fall or get canned. He's a nice guy, but in way over his head ... his desire to push Disney into not making more adult films under the Touchstone banner has been a disaster. The fact he has kept his job can be largely attributed to two things: Pixar and Captain Jack.

And, the jury is out on Iger saving anything.

You're kidding right? It's baffling how much the Disney-Pixar acquisition is being underplayed. First of all, Disney only had a distribution deal with Pixar that Eisner was ready to let go. Iger sought out to purchase Pixar. He mended relations with Catmull and Lasseter, and most importantly Jobs. Without Iger's work, Disney would not have had a chance to buy Pixar even if they wanted to.

You know why ultimately the Pixar deal went through? It's very simple and it's known by anyone with any ties to the Industry. John Lasseter and -- especially -- Steve Jobs grew to detest Michael Eisner (rightly or wrongly). The biggest thing Iger had going was he was no Eisner. That's why Pixar became part of TWDC.

This might help shed some light on Iger's accomplishments for you. Like I said, domestic P&R are not getting much attention right now, but the moves Iger is making are helping to save TWDC. There was a huge mess to clean up, and obviously it is still a work in progress.

The company was a mess before and it's a mess now. Some things are better, some aren't. But the hyperbole about Iger saving the company is just that.

You want to credit someone or someones with saving Disney, you credit Michael and Frank (with some strong shout outs to Roy and Jeffrey).

Iger has proven to be nothing more than a manager. A custodian if you will.

Eisner had a long legacy at Disney that will largely be viewed in glowing terms when the dust settled.

Iger's hasn't been written ... and right now it speaks of nothing beyond ordinary.

As to the story you cited, you do know that people on Iger's level have teams of PR folks whose job it is would be to place stories like that ... especially when the economy is tanking ... as well as the company's bottom line.

The Disney world does not revolve around P&R, as much as I wish it did, but that's not necessarily a bad thing. Iger is saving TWDC from crumbling, and I'm thinking P&R will get the same attention with time.

Disney is unique among major media companies for the very fact that P&R is such a big component and revenue driver.

And you're free to see Iger as a savior, but some of us see him as a huge reason why the foundation continues to crumble while fanbois get lathered up because they're painting at the MK (message to them: Disney used to paint every day of the year!)
 

WDW1974

Well-Known Member
Disneyland's 50th. was during Eisner's time at the top

Yes. It was. And Matt Ouimett did an amazing job getting that park in shape, despite often having to butt heads with Jay Rasulo (or do an end around him)

There is no "new" liberty square. The Hall of Presidents is getting redone because of Obama and Haunted Mansion benefited from A)Disneyland getting updated and B)the florida attraction desperatly needing some maintenance.

When they bring the Keelboats back, add back some period entertainment and deal with the merchandise mess then we can talk about LS being new.

Right now, we have had one great rehab and it looks like a second.

Plans to repostition/expand DCA and HKDL have been around for a looooong time before Iger became CEO. It might have even been WDW1974 who first broke the story that HK's Haunted Mansion would be voodoo themed and this was back in 2005 over on Miceage.

I dunno whether that's true or not. I do know I was certainly one of the first and knew about it when it was blue sky. ... I was surprised (very pleasantly) by the new ride system (one we'll never see in the states ... get the sheriff on that!) ... and that also tells me that the Ratatouille ride for DSP is very likely a go now as well ... likely for the 20th anniversary (which could also include Mermaid and Star Tours 2.0 for DLP itself!)

I'm starting to get the fealing you really don't know all that much about Disney :veryconfu

Were you even around for the Save Disney campaign in 2004?

I've had that feeling for a very long time. I think the dude's name is Frank and he is 62 and lives with his three dogs in a trailer in New Mexico and he has never set foot in a Disney park!
 

EPCOT Explorer

New Member
Buying Pixar was a NO-BRAINER ... period. Anyone could have seen that Pixar was the new Disney. Even a crazy fanboi.



Saving it? The Studios, beyond Pixar, are a disaster. Cook is likely to retire by fall or get canned. He's a nice guy, but in way over his head ... his desire to push Disney into not making more adult films under the Touchstone banner has been a disaster. The fact he has kept his job can be largely attributed to two things: Pixar and Captain Jack.

And, the jury is out on Iger saving anything.



You know why ultimately the Pixar deal went through? It's very simple and it's known by anyone with any ties to the Industry. John Lasseter and -- especially -- Steve Jobs grew to detest Michael Eisner (rightly or wrongly). The biggest thing Iger had going was he was no Eisner. That's why Pixar became part of TWDC.



The company was a mess before and it's a mess now. Some things are better, some aren't. But the hyperbole about Iger saving the company is just that.

You want to credit someone or someones with saving Disney, you credit Michael and Frank (with some strong shout outs to Roy and Jeffrey).

Iger has proven to be nothing more than a manager. A custodian if you will.

Eisner had a long legacy at Disney that will largely be viewed in glowing terms when the dust settled.

Iger's hasn't been written ... and right now it speaks of nothing beyond ordinary.

As to the story you cited, you do know that people on Iger's level have teams of PR folks whose job it is would be to place stories like that ... especially when the economy is tanking ... as well as the company's bottom line.



Disney is unique among major media companies for the very fact that P&R is such a big component and revenue driver.

And you're free to see Iger as a savior, but some of us see him as a huge reason why the foundation continues to crumble while fanbois get lathered up because they're painting at the MK (message to them: Disney used to paint every day of the year!)
That's interesting, and strikes me as very true.

Perhaps he is just getting things in order and the real thrills will come later?

Just a thought...
 

WDW1974

Well-Known Member
No, we disagree. If anyone can be blamed for the "walmarting" it is Eisner. He grew the product faster than the quality could keep pace.

Scary thought, but you're right. (what's the blind squirrel and nut analogy?)

Eisner absolutely began the WalMarting by forgetting what got him where he was ... no doubt.

But what you fail to grip is the fact that Iger's fundamental philospophies about running the company is very much just a continuation of the past ... sure he's painted the house and bought a few new pieces of furniture. But he never got around to dealing with the termite problem ...

I'm done talking about Eisner. That is so in the past.

How about being done talking period? That's CHANGE I could get behind!
 

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