Splash Mountain re-theme announced

[celluloid]

There is a middle ground. Lots of people watch Shakespeare without agreeing with 17th century morals. I like the talking animals but gotta admit that the Uncle Remus book has enough uses of "the N-word" among other red flags that it shouldn't be celebrated with an E-ride. I think helping the case further is that kids don't know who Brer Rabbit is anymore, and it's hard to give them any context. Many people don't want to hand a bookful of broken English dialect and recurring a racial slur to kids who wonder what Splash Mountain is supposed to be about, and the movie's got it's own problems in addition to probably being boring.

Did you not see the lyrics by Randy Newman's famous songs, who did the music for Princess and The Frog that will be in the ride? N Words and other slurs all over. Your logic seems flawed.

 

[Brer Oswald]

Oh okay. I've said before, many pages back, that I like the characters but wish Disney would hire some black writers to give them new stories outside of Harris's writing.

That would have been the right way to handle this. I guess they still can in terms of cinema, but they likely never will because:
the almighty dollar >>> Justice and representation.

 

[Phil12]

Ok....and.... so what if the Silhouettes version was a bigger hit? It was a better song. What's your point?

Edit: Really, I don't mean it in snark; I genuinely am not connecting the dots here between your previous post about the origins of Zip, etc. and Motown and these two songs.

I didn't establish any connection between Motown and the origins of Zip. You'll have to ask 21stamps that question.

 

[21stamps]

I didn't establish any connection between Motown and the origins of Zip. You'll have to ask 21stamps that question.

Motown artists have covered that song. Most notably the Jackson 5, on their first album, which went to #1 on the R&B charts, and in the top 5 of the main billboard chart. We are supposed to believe that Motown, mainly Berry Gordy, and the Jacksons put out a racist record, or would even do such a thing given what they were trying to accomplish?

That’s what people like you are saying that we should believe.

 

[Phil12]

I don’t know the point of those videos?

I realize that the internet and current ridiculousness is telling us that the Zip Ah Dee Doo Da that we all know and love, is actually a racial injustice.....but, can we use common sense for one moment? Do we think the first black owned record label, fresh off and during the civil rights movements, and some of the first huge crossover black artists, would put out a song that had racist roots?

Do we really believe that? Can we believe that based on what we already know?

Barry Gordy would put out anything that would sell records and get airplay on the radio!

 

[21stamps]

Barry Gordy would put out anything that would sell records and get airplay on the radio!

So you’re saying “YES, and everyone went along with it.”

It’s beyond ridiculous at this point.

 

[orlandogal22]

I didn't establish any connection between Motown and the origins of Zip. You'll have to ask 21stamps that question.

I got what 21stamps was saying. I didn't get what the reason for those two songs you posted was.

They're both black doo wop groups.
They released both songs within months of each other.
The first released song (Get a Job) was better; it had more staying power and got more airplay
Berry released Got a Job w/ the Miracles. The song wasn't as good (and ripped of the first one, if we're being honest). But they ended up being the bigger group, and obviously Smokey as the breakout star.

So what? I don't get the connection to as a rebuttal to 21stamps or the overarching point.

 

[orlandogal22]

Barry Gordy would put out anything that would sell records and get airplay on the radio!

Not to be *that* person, but he spells his name Berry.

 

[Phil12]

I got what 21stamps was saying. I didn't get what the reason for those two songs you posted was.

They're both black doo wop groups.
They released both songs within months of each other.
The first released song (Get a Job) was better; it had more staying power and got more airplay
Berry released Got a Job w/ the Miracles. The song wasn't as good (and ripped of the first one, if we're being honest). But they ended up being the bigger group, and obviously Smokey as the breakout star.

So what? I don't get the connection to as a rebuttal to 21stamps or the overarching point.

Motown

 

[orlandogal22]

Motown

 

[thomas998]

I think they were familiar with it because it was their job to write a song for this movie and they researched music of the period and obviously borrowed from it.

It isn't obvious at all. Do you honestly think at a time when the word c**n was considered to be a derogatory reference to a black person, that the two musical writers for a movie which was already being mired in controversy would do something so stupid? The simple fact is there is no real evidence that the song was influenced by the other. The only supposed evidence that it was even influenced by the earlier song is some claim on wikipedia which as anyone knows is not very reliable source. Go find a note by Ray Gilbert where he states that and you'll be able to make that claim legitimately otherwise you're just spreading gossip.

 

[Phil12]

Not to be *that* person, but he spells his name Berry.

My mistake. I stand corrected.

 

[21stamps]

I got what 21stamps was saying. I didn't get what the reason for those two songs you posted was.

They're both black doo wop groups.
They released both songs within months of each other.
The first released song (Get a Job) was better; it had more staying power and got more airplay
Berry released Got a Job w/ the Miracles. The song wasn't as good (and ripped of the first one, if we're being honest). But they ended up being the bigger group, and obviously Smokey as the breakout star.

So what? I don't get the connection to as a rebuttal to 21stamps or the overarching point.

It’s nonsensical.

Literally Motown was first made so successful by black people, hence the place on the R&B charts.. then many artists became wildly popular with all people, regardless of color. HOWEVER, we’re not only supposed to believe that Disney was racist, but so were black artists and the first black media mogul.. as well as millions of black Americans who bought the record.

None of them were smart enough to see the racism, but it was there.. we found it decades later.

 

[orlandogal22]

It’s nonsensical.

Literally Motown was first made so successful by black people, hence the place on the R&B charts.. then many artists became wildly popular with all people, regardless of color. HOWEVER, we’re not only supposed to believe that Disney was racist, but so were black artists and the first black media mogul.. as well as millions of black Americans who bought the record.

None of them were smart enough to see the racism, but it was there.. we found it decades later.

OK, I understand that!

But, I'm honestly trying to - in good faith - understand Phil's point...and I think I need more coffee.

 

[21stamps]

OK, I understand that!

But, I'm honestly trying to - in good faith - understand Phil's point...and I think I need more coffee.

I think he’s saying that they knew it was racist, and didn’t care. Lol

 

[thomas998]

Historical background behind "Zip A Dee Doo Dah" - Behind the Music

This seemingly nonsense song has a lot of baggage packed into its brief stanzas. Disney won an Oscar for it but never made much money from the film.

www.behind-the-music.com

Old Zip Coon/Turkey in the Straw - 2018 - Question of the Month - Jim Crow Museum

This song was performed by a white man in blackface. The objective was to ridicule and draw attention to the inferiority of the black race while simultaneously championing the superiority of the white race:

Do you even bother to read what you throw up there Woke Warrior? A direct quote from your supposed smoking gun on whether the Zip-a-dee-doo-dah was inspired by the early song was:

"Did the composer and lyricist of the Disney song know about the earlier version? Who knows?"

So you've managed to produce zero evidence with nothing more than a long article that mentions both songs and has no evidence of one being inspired by the other. Congratulations... What will you do for an encore?

 

[Brer Panther]

Change the voice cast to a black cast.

I suppose I should mention that Brer Fox is voiced in the ride by an African-American, J.D. Hall. In addition, they're ANIMALS. They technically don't have a race. But I do see your point.

Not sure why Brer Rabbit wasn’t played by a black actor in the ride considering he was in the movie (I’m pretty sure?), but that could’ve been fixed.

Maybe they didn't want him to sound as "stereotypically black" as he kind of does in the movie? I don't think the voice is enough to call him a black stereotype, but it's possible. I've noticed that Nick Stewart's performance as Brer Bear in the Disneyland version is less "stereotypically black" than it is in the movie, for what it's worth.

 

[Phil12]

 

[Phil12]

Do you even bother to read what your throw up there Woke Warrior? A direct quote from your supposed smoking gun on whether the Zip-a-dee-doo-dah was inspired by the early song was:

"Did the composer and lyricist of the Disney song know about the earlier version? Who knows? Did the composer and lyricist of the Disney song know about the earlier version? Who knows?"

So you've managed to produce zero evidence with nothing more than a long article that mentions both song and has no evidence of one being inspired by the other. Congratulations... What will you do for an encore?

Well I'm satisfied with the decision made by TWDC for the re-theme.

 

[Kate F]

Well I'm satisfied with the decision made by TWDC for the re-theme.

Good for you