The Spirited Seventh Heaven ...

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seascape

Well-Known Member
mahnamahna101 said:
Epcot, AK and DHS draw 10-12 million... you lose
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US and IOA draw 8 and 7 million each. You lose.

Universal need a 25 percent increase to reach 10 million. There is a physical limit to how many people you can put in a park. And you can't just say what the limit per day is and multiply it by 365 because attendance is highest on weekends and holidays. The real number I have heard from people who know is that 12 million would be the maximum either of Universals parks can hold. It's the same problem Disney has with DHS. Without taking out the back lot tour DHS can't get past 12 million. Now if they took out the back lot tour and that crazy driving stunt show and took some of the parking lot they could increase capacity to a higher number.

There is no way either of Universals gates will pass Epcot unless Epcot falls apart or AK after Pandora and the other attractions are added. It will not happen because it's physically impossible. The only gate universal has a chance of passing is DHS but that dies once star wars is added. DHS will have a major addition but even if they did everything they can't reach a capacity of much more than 20 million and that depends on expanding into the parking lots.
 
PhotoDave219

PhotoDave219

Well-Known Member
fbb said:
Though it would seem that the people in DCA making big bonuses from Cars Land would motivate others.
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One would think.

If you build Star Wars to the level of detail that cars land is? Your results would be mind blowing. People want to drink at the Cantina bar. People want to hang out job is palace. People want to walk through the millennium falcon. Been screaming about this for years…

Too much Glengarry Glen Ross and not enough field of dreams right now… That's my observation.
 
M

mahnamahna101

Well-Known Member
seascape said:
US and IOA draw 8 and 7 million each. You lose.

Universal need a 25 percent increase to reach 10 million. There is a physical limit to how many people you can put in a park. And you can't just say what the limit per day is and multiply it by 365 because attendance is highest on weekends and holidays. The real number I have heard from people who know is that 12 million would be the maximum either of Universals parks can hold. It's the same problem Disney has with DHS. Without taking out the back lot tour DHS can't get past 12 million. Now if they took out the back lot tour and that crazy driving stunt show and took some of the parking lot they could increase capacity to a higher number.

There is no way either of Universals gates will pass Epcot unless Epcot falls apart or AK after Pandora and the other attractions are added. It will not happen because it's physically impossible. The only gate universal has a chance of passing is DHS but that dies once star wars is added. DHS will have a major addition but even if they did everything they can't reach a capacity of much more than 20 million and that depends on expanding into the parking lots.
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You're just something else... you do realize each park can still expand, right? And they haven't reached full capacity. DHS has significantly less capacity than either Uni park yet it got 10.5 million. I never said the Uni parks would do it this year. Kong, the KidZone revamp, Middle Earth, the mystery plot by MIB that equals 1.5 Diagon Alleys, Seuss and JP expansions, LC replacement, the water park, the 3rd gate... It's gonna be a while.

And you made the absurd assumption that AK, Epcot and DHS can hold 20 million a year each... not even MK does that. Plus guest spending is more important to Uni than attendance. Topping DHS is a sure thing by 2017 with how much Universal is adding. AK and Epcot could be equalled by 2024. Universal has more room to grow attendance than Disney. For the record, 12 million is all Universal would need to equal those two.
 
spacemt354

spacemt354

Chili's
The Crafty Veteran said:
Lots of stuff on Yahoo business about Potter at Universal. Reports about all of Potter costing around a billion dollars with the new ride costing almost half of that. Pundits also predicting the new area won't be as successful as the first. The user comments, being unedited and unmoderated are a riot.
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Iger and Co. are all about "business"...and we all know how well they operate and understand theme parks! ;)
 
spacemt354

spacemt354

Chili's
PhotoDave219 said:
I wouldn't go that far. Epcot still draws a lot of people and still has a lot of rides the people enjoy.

Is nowhere near the train wreck that is animal kingdom or the studios.

Yes, Epcot has been neglected but nowhere near to the level of studios or animal kingdom. It's becoming triage level needs.
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I know. But we all like to deal with hyperbole on these threads. So I wanted to join in the fun :)
 
ParentsOf4

ParentsOf4

Well-Known Member
seascape said:
US and IOA draw 8 and 7 million each. You lose.

Universal need a 25 percent increase to reach 10 million. There is a physical limit to how many people you can put in a park. And you can't just say what the limit per day is and multiply it by 365 because attendance is highest on weekends and holidays. The real number I have heard from people who know is that 12 million would be the maximum either of Universals parks can hold. It's the same problem Disney has with DHS. Without taking out the back lot tour DHS can't get past 12 million. Now if they took out the back lot tour and that crazy driving stunt show and took some of the parking lot they could increase capacity to a higher number.

There is no way either of Universals gates will pass Epcot unless Epcot falls apart or AK after Pandora and the other attractions are added. It will not happen because it's physically impossible. The only gate universal has a chance of passing is DHS but that dies once star wars is added. DHS will have a major addition but even if they did everything they can't reach a capacity of much more than 20 million and that depends on expanding into the parking lots.
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In business, "number of units sold" is significantly less import than margins (i.e. profitability).

In 2013, Disney’s Parks & Resorts (P&R) segment generated operating income of $2.2B on revenue of $14B, a 15.8% gross margin.

In 2013, Universal’s Theme Parks segment generated operating income of $700M on revenue of $2.2B, a 31.5% gross margin.

Currently, one organization is about twice as effective as the other at providing its shareholders with return on investment.

Lucky for Disney they own ESPN. :D
 
T

The Crafty Veteran

Active Member
GLaDOS

GLaDOS

Well-Known Member
The Crafty Veteran said:
Lots of stuff on Yahoo business about Potter at Universal. Reports about all of Potter costing around a billion dollars with the new ride costing almost half of that. Pundits also predicting the new area won't be as successful as the first. The user comments, being unedited and unmoderated are a riot.
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All of Potter? As in Hogsmeade and Diagon Alley? Hogsmeade was around 250 million, and paid for itself in about 4 months. Diagon and the Hogwarts Express came in around 400-500 million, depending who you ask. If I was a betting man, I'd say it pays for itself by next summer
 
S

seascape

Well-Known Member
mahnamahna101 said:
You're just something else... you do realize each park can still expand, right? And they haven't reached full capacity. DHS has significantly less capacity than either Uni park yet it got 10.5 million. I never said the Uni parks would do it this year. Kong, the KidZone revamp, Middle Earth, the mystery plot by MIB that equals 1.5 Diagon Alleys, Seuss and JP expansions, LC replacement, the water park, the 3rd gate... It's gonna be a while.

And you made the absurd assumption that AK, Epcot and DHS can hold 20 million a year each... not even MK does that. Plus guest spending is more important to Uni than attendance. Topping DHS is a sure thing by 2017 with how much Universal is adding. AK and Epcot could be equalled by 2024. Universal has more room to grow attendance than Disney. For the record, 12 million is all Universal would need to equal those two.
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EPCOT is much bigger physically than the Magic Kingdom. Animal Kingdom is the largest of the 4. Magic Kingdom has a limit of about 25 million. And please go back and show me where I said any of the 3 would out draw MK. I said even if everything was done at DHS it's capacity could not increase to much more than 20 million. That is a far cry from saying it will reach that number. Where as to say MK will reach 25 million is not a stretch.

The question for the MK is how do they increase capacity or get people to go to other gates. I have my ideas and others have theirs. I do like the idea of expanding North of It's a Small world and do find those on another threads idea of moving it to Epcot an interesting idea but I also love the idea of removing to go carts and putting in 2 new rides even more.

Back to universal.. what are you smoking to say that Universal has more room to expand than Disney? Disney has so much more land than all the vacant land around universal. To believe your statement you must believe the world is flat and there is no global warming and that Disney will build a monorail to Universal.
 
T

The Crafty Veteran

Active Member
ParentsOf4 said:
In business, "number of units sold" is significantly less import than margins (i.e. profitability).

In 2013, Disney’s Parks & Resorts (P&R) segment generated operating income of $2.2B on revenue of $14B, a 15.8% gross margin.

In 2013, Universal’s Theme Parks segment generated operating income of $700M on revenue of $2.2B, a 31.5% gross margin.

Currently, one organization is about twice as effective as the other at providing its shareholders with return on investment.

Lucky for Disney they own ESPN. :D
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Funny thing about margins is, you can't spend it no matter how good it looks on paper. Cash though, you can. What would you rather have?
 
PhotoDave219

PhotoDave219

Well-Known Member
wogwog said:
Might not be the same one Crafty saw but..
http://finance.yahoo.com/blogs/dail...-131552766.html;_ylt=AwrBJR.bwKVTYG0AqkuTmYlQ
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Two entirely different articles. I'm actually more interested in reading the one from the financial perspective… I'm interested in Wall Street's take.

I'm not sure if they are unaware or simply failing to grasp the idea that this new expansion will result in parents taking their kids they're implying more merchandise then you could imagine. Remember the old days, when the old joke was you would walk out of Magic Kingdom with Mickey Mouse everything… Armfuls of merchandise in the whatnot? Well kids will be walking out of universal studios with there. Potter robes and magic wands and novelties from the joke store and the butter beer cups and anything else you could imagine that's merchandised is… there's only one place in America you can get this and it's at Universal.

Universal has taken merchantainment to a level that Paul Pressler would lose his over.

What everyone does fail to grasp is that this isn't about rides, it isn't about butter beer, it isn't about the shops. It's about transporting the guest to a fantasy world that immerses them entirely. It's a world these kids are growing up with and learning about in school.

In my opinion? It's going to be more successful than the first.
 
spacemt354

spacemt354

Chili's
mahnamahna101 said:
You're just something else... you do realize each park can still expand, right? And they haven't reached full capacity. DHS has significantly less capacity than either Uni park yet it got 10.5 million. I never said the Uni parks would do it this year. Kong, the KidZone revamp, Middle Earth, the mystery plot by MIB that equals 1.5 Diagon Alleys, Seuss and JP expansions, LC replacement, the water park, the 3rd gate... It's gonna be a while.

And you made the absurd assumption that AK, Epcot and DHS can hold 20 million a year each... not even MK does that. Plus guest spending is more important to Uni than attendance. Topping DHS is a sure thing by 2017 with how much Universal is adding. AK and Epcot could be equalled by 2024. Universal has more room to grow attendance than Disney. For the record, 12 million is all Universal would need to equal those two.
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According to 2013 TEA rankings,
Universal Studios Orlando had a 14% park attendance increase in 2013 from 6,195,000 to 7,062,000.
IOA: 2% increase from 7,981,000 to 8,141,000
Disney Hollywood Studios: 2% increase from 9,912,000 to 10,110,000
Disney's Animal Kingdom: 2% increase from 9,998,000 to 10,198,000

Let's say DHS doesn't add anything to its park till the rumored Star Wars addition (in 2018/2019).

If, theoretically, DHS attendance remains constant, or if it increases by 1% or 2% each year till the big rumored Star Wars addition, it would take IOA 4 years, at roughly a 8% increase each year in order to overtake DHS and 5 years at a roughly 6-7% increase each year.

This is not a pipe dream. With the expansions and additions to Uni over the next few years, IOA could be on track to surpass DHS before Star Wars opens or even breaks ground.
 
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S

seascape

Well-Known Member
spacemt354 said:
It already has...
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I love Epcot. It's needs some TLC but it has not fallen apart. Redo Energy and Imagination and put something in WoL and future world is fine. Put the rat in France and add one country and world show case is better than ever. Even if they do just a couple of things EPCOT will be fine. Ask the people who live in Orlando about food and wine. It's one of the most popular events for not only the local population but DVC members as well. Epcot has the ability to draw 20 million. It will take time but it will get there. Flower and Garden is growing in popularity too. I go to both.
 

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