News Zootopia and Moana Blue Sky concepts for Disney's Animal Kingdom

[SpectreJordan]

Well not to beat a dead horse but the IP mandate is the reason we have Guardians at EPCOT in the first place. Which is a problem. As I have said in the past there's nothing wrong with IP but there is something wrong with the IP mandate. As a ride Cosmic Rewind is okay...the coaster itself is very good but everything around it kinda sucks. And neither it nor Mission Breakout would I consider even close to the best attractions WDI has ever built. And neither one should have been built. But they were, solely because of the IP mandate and every new attraction in the parks having to be tied to some movie or TV franchise.



I agree the Zootopia hate has gone too far but I see where they're coming from TBH. When all these IPs are forced on the parks, it gives a lot of people a distaste for those IPs outside the parks as well. Toy Story for example I kind of dislike now and I almost didn't see GOTG 3 despite being a huge fan of the first two, simply because I'm tired of seeing that crap all over the place.



Zootopia has great worlbuilding but I don't think it's popular enough to support an entire theme park land long term. An attraction with a facade in DHS is one thing....that could work.....an entire land, nah. Single IP lands have gone too far. The appeal for this one movie from 2016 isn't that broad. HP and SW work bc they're HP and Star Wars. Zootopia don't got it like that.

I'll agree to disagree on Cosmic. The story is incomprehensible but it's the most fun I've ever had on a theme park ride. I love the teleportation part of the pre-show, the music adds so much to the coaster & I really like the theming even if it's just darkness for "space".

I think Disney needs to see how Zootopia 2 does before committing to a land for it. I definitely agree that there's not a lot for it just yet.

If they go through with these plans, it seems like Disney already knows that atleast since it just seems to be the area around the Dinosaur ride. While Oceania (hopefully not solely Moana) gets the land.

 

[J4546]

I agree the Gaurdians Coaster is one of my fave rides in any Disney park as well and I usually get sick feeling on coasters but its just so smooth I loved it. You can argue it should have gone in another park but the ride I think is a great addition to Epcots lineup.

 

[UNCgolf]

I'll agree to disagree on Cosmic. The story is incomprehensible but it's the most fun I've ever had on a theme park ride. I love the teleportation part of the pre-show, the music adds so much to the coaster & I really like the theming even if it's just darkness for "space"

I think it's a great coaster but I'd argue it's actually a design failure from a theme perspective (certainly not close to being a masterpiece or one of Disney's best); you could remove everything but the music and it would have very little effect on the ride.

The praise generally revolves around how smooth it is and the fun music. It should offer a lot more than that to be a great theme park design -- I personally don't think it's even one of the best themed coasters in Orlando.

That doesn't mean it's a bad attraction, of course. Just that it's not a shining example of themed design.

 

[DCLcruiser]

I think it's a great coaster but I'd argue it's actually a design failure from a theme perspective (certainly not close to being a masterpiece or one of Disney's best); you could remove everything but the music and it would have very little effect on the ride.

The praise generally revolves around how smooth it is and the fun music. It should offer a lot more than that to be a great theme park design -- I personally don't think it's even one of the best themed coasters in Orlando.

That doesn't mean it's a bad attraction, of course. Just that it's not a shining example of themed design.

Come on, Guardians is great. A lot of fun.

I am not saying I don't miss UoE, but Guardians is good time. I was lucky to ride it twice this past December.

 

[BlakeW39]

I'll agree to disagree on Cosmic. The story is incomprehensible but it's the most fun I've ever had on a theme park ride. I love the teleportation part of the pre-show, the music adds so much to the coaster & I really like the theming even if it's just darkness for "space".

Interesting, I mean I thought it was a fun coaster but definitely not a well themed attraction. The screens provide too much lighting for one, so you can see the track, show building, etc. So it doesn't really make me feel like I'm in outer space. And the effects are pretty across-the-board unconvincing imho. I thought it was fun but not fun enough to compensate for it being a blight on the themes of EPCOT. And it's a perfect example of why the IP mandate causes issues with theming in the four parks.

As far as Zootopia and Moana go, I think both can hold their own attractions but I see no need for either to get their own dedicated lands. Why not just have an Oceana land with a Moana attraction?

 

[UNCgolf]

Come on, Guardians is great. A lot of fun.

I am not saying I don't miss UoE, but Guardians is good time. I was lucky to ride it twice this past December.

That's not my point, though. It can be a ton of fun without being a great themed design -- as I said, I think it's a great coaster.

Slinky Dog Dash is super fun (and no, I'm not suggesting SDD is on the same level as Guardians because it isn't), but that doesn't mean it's an amazing design.

I just don't see Guardians as anywhere near the same level as rides like Haunted Mansion, Splash Mountain, Great Movie Ride, Spaceship Earth, Big Thunder Mountain Railroad, Expedition Everest, Rise of the Resistance, etc. from a themed design standpoint. That doesn't mean people can't have more fun on it than any of those attractions, though.

 

[DCLcruiser]

That's not my point, though. It can be a ton of fun without being a great themed design -- as I said, I think it's a great coaster.

Slinky Dog Dash is super fun (and no, I'm not suggesting SDD is on the same level as Guardians because it isn't), but that doesn't mean it's an amazing design.

I thought the pre-show was excellent, and the ride itself was fun with pretty good graphics. I went during Christmas so I didn't get to hear the normal music.

I do think it would have been better to incorporate UoE into the ride, like have them go back in time and show the history of energy, vs the Celestial storyline.

 

[UNCgolf]

I thought the pre-show was excellent, and the ride itself was fun with pretty good graphics. I went during Christmas so I didn't get to hear the normal music.

I do think it would have been better to incorporate UoE into the ride, like have them go back in time and show the history of energy, vs the Celestial storyline.

I think the pre-show is pretty good and the best part of the experience from a theme perspective. I honestly think the exact same coaster track just based on space in general (somewhat like what you mentioned) instead of the incomprehensible Celestial stuff would be a better attraction -- the only issue there would be the loss of the music. That's what I mean when I say I don't think the overall design is great even if the coaster itself is really fun.

 

[James Alucobond]

Cosmic Rewind is definitely a case where doing less with the story would have made the attraction better. Like, just ditch the Celestial stuff and make it an intentional trip back to observe the Big Bang using the Time Stone or whatever. Makes more sense with EPCOT in general and doesn’t require you to pay attention to the inaudible banter to make out what’s happening. Do that, add Rocket and Groot animatronics to the pre-show, attach the currently awkward exit to the gift shop, and make the show building slightly more aesthetically pleasing and I can live with it.

 

[BlakeW39]

Cosmic Rewind is definitely a case where doing less with the story would have made the attraction better. Like, just ditch the Celestial stuff and make it an intentional trip back to observe the Big Bang using the Time Stone or whatever. Makes more sense with EPCOT in general and doesn’t require you to pay attention to the inaudible banter to make out what’s happening. Do that, add Rocket and Groot animatronics to the pre-show, attach the currently awkward exit to the gift shop, and make the show building slightly more aesthetically pleasing and I can live with it.

I don't really think there's any point in trying to make Cosmic Rewind fit EPCOT's theme. That would be just so ridiculously contrived. If they cared about the themes of EPCOT they wouldn't have built the thing in the first place.

 

[James Alucobond]

I don't really think there's any point in trying to make Cosmic Rewind fit EPCOT's theme. That would be just so ridiculously contrived. If they cared about the themes of EPCOT they wouldn't have built the thing in the first place.

The thing is, they already do try, at least superficially, and it would actually kind of work if the entire thing were a research trip without the obligatory “something goes wrong”. The Big Bang is violent enough that you don’t need Eson thrown into the mix to justify the ride intensity. Wonders of the Galaxy sponsored by Xandar fits the mold so much better and actually follows the setup in the Galaxarium.

 

[BlakeW39]

The thing is, they already do try, at least superficially, and it would actually kind of work if the entire thing were a research trip without the obligatory “something goes wrong”. The Big Bang is violent enough that you don’t need Eson thrown into the mix to justify the ride intensity. Wonders of the Galaxy sponsored by Xandar fits the mold so much better and actually follows the setup in the Galaxarium.

Yeah I'm sorry man but I don't think the time stone fits in EPCOT any better than the Celestials do. There are two problems with Cosmic Rewind in EPCOT:

1. GOTG doesn't fit in Futureworld. The Marvel Comic Entities are science fiction/fantasy and don't fit with the futurism at the front of the park and there's no way you make it fit either. You could make it slightly less jarring but its presence will always be a blight on the themes of the park.

There are a million ways to make a crowd pleasing space rollercoaster fit in EPCOT. Using the Guardians of the Galaxy in any way is not one of them.

2. all the seemingly random stuff that they show you on the screens is a complete cluster you-know-what and serves no purpose on the attraction. Have wayyy less happening on the screens and the ride will be improved.

 

[James Alucobond]

Yeah I'm sorry man but I don't think the time stone fits in EPCOT any better than the Celestials do. There are two problems with Cosmic Rewind in EPCOT:

1. GOTG doesn't fit in Futureworld. The Marvel Comic Entities are science fiction/fantasy and don't fit with the futurism at the front of the park and there's no way you make it fit either. You could make it slightly less jarring but its presence will always be a blight on the themes of the park.

Not every early EPCOT ride had a realistic conceit. What happens to facilitate exploration of the body in Body Wars, for instance, is not remotely plausible. Even if you surround it with Marvel technobabble, learning about (in the Galaxarium) and experiencing firsthand (in the ride) the Big Bang in an effort to better understand the cosmos is not totally off the rails for the park. Or at least it’s more on track than capture-the-Celestial. I agree Marvel is not ideal for EPCOT, but that doesn’t mean it’s impossible to make it fit better than it does.

2. all the seemingly random stuff that they show you on the screens is a complete cluster you-know-what and serves no purpose on the attraction. Have wayyy less happening on the screens and the ride will be better for it.

Which is what I’m saying. Cut all the ship and Celestial chaos and just make it about the majesty of space and the Big Bang.

Anyway, that’s probably my last response not because I don’t enjoy the discussion but because I’ve probably gone off topic at this point.

 

[celluloid]

Not every early EPCOT ride had a realistic conceit. What happens to facilitate exploration of the body in Body Wars, for instance, is not remotely plausible. Even if you surround it with Marvel technobabble, learning about (in the Galaxarium) and experiencing firsthand (in the ride) the Big Bang in an effort to better understand the cosmos is not totally off the rails for the park. Or at least it’s more on track than capture-the-Celestial. I agree Marvel is not ideal for EPCOT, but that doesn’t mean it’s impossible to make it fit better than it does.

Truth be told, most of them didn't.. Just reflecting on Future World here...

Energy always had a presentation feel but even that magically opened up to take you back to the dinos.

World of Motion was Tongue in Cheek. You thought you were getting SSE or Horizons but it was far more humerous with dry narration and irony of the visual comedy.

Horizons and SSE dreamed big with time jumps and science fiction. Inspirational is the key over realistic. Educaged guesses that definitely inspired and were as right as could be.

Listen To The Land started very abstract seeing the way a seed grows.

Journey Into Imagination of course abstract and you go into Imagination itself.

Wonders of Life as noted by you,, all around sci fi fun to explain our health. It even used pop culture celebrities to do so.

The Living Seas, a fictional base that is plausible but a pretty bold dream and used illusions to sell the idea.

Marvel is a different flavor, but the concept could and should have been more inspirational. Even saving the galaxy could have been more inspiring than the story it has. Pen and paper fix, n real budget required.

 

[Advisable Joseph]

My best guess based off of nothing would be that that'll try to mimic the ride story as much as possible while fitting it into the existing Dino layout. So while not a 1 for 1 clone of the new attraction being built, perhaps something closer to a cousin of it. Just my guess based on nothing but my brains.

How about reversing your logic:

Maybe whatever the heck they come up with for Zootopia Dinosaur could be cloned for an additional ride for Shanghai or California Adventure?

 

[MagicHappens1971]

How about reversing your logic:

Maybe whatever the heck they come up with for Zootopia Dinosaur could be cloned for an additional ride for Shanghai or California Adventure?

It’s not plausible to assume that the Zootopia retheme of Dinosaur will be different enough to have another attraction at Shanghai cloned from it.

I liked @FigmentFan82’s description, maybe not a 1:1 clone, but a “cousin”.

 

[Advisable Joseph]

It’s not plausible to assume that the Zootopia retheme of Dinosaur will be different enough to have another attraction at Shanghai cloned from it.

I guess you're assuming the blue sky description of a future Zootopia attraction is the Zootopia Dinosaur ride, which is the police car ride?

I'm not so sure yet, especially since Jennifer Lee's hypothetical involved Judy's hometown. Also, I can't find it now, but I thought I read that an Imagineer at D23 admitted the Shanghai ride wouldn't be a thrill ride: would it even work with Dinosaur?

A cost-saving thought: Zootopia does prominently feature a museum of natural history, and there were small mammals at the end of the Metazoic Era. Disney could retheme Dinosaur to look for such a mammal for the Zootopia Museum of Natural History, and save Jennifer Lee's ideas for the future?

 

[MagicHappens1971]

I guess you're assuming the blue sky description of a future Zootopia attraction is the Zootopia Dinosaur ride, which is the police car ride?

I'm not so sure yet, especially since Jennifer Lee's hypothetical involved Judy's hometown. Also, I can't find it now, but I thought I read that an Imagineer at D23 admitted the Shanghai ride wouldn't be a thrill ride: would it even work with Dinosaur?

A cost-saving thought: Zootopia does prominently feature a museum of natural history, and there were small mammals at the end of the Metazoic Era. Disney could retheme Dinosaur to look for such a mammal for the Zootopia Museum of Natural History, and save Jennifer Lee's ideas for the future?

I already went back and forth with you about this, Jennifer Lee & Chris Beety discussed all of the biomes of Zootopia, they never once said the attraction would focus on Judy’s hometown.

The Shanghai attraction is a trackless police car chase (we don’t know much else) about it. Sounds pretty thrilling to me.

I am fully assuming that the Dinosaur retheme will take as many show elements as possible from the Shanghai Zootopia attraction.

I would be THRILLED to find out that this attraction will be built from scratch, but that is not the Disney of today. Especially if trusted insiders rumors are true that the Dinosaur retheme is happening first.

 

[Advisable Joseph]

I already went back and forth with you about this, Jennifer Lee & Chris Beety discussed all of the biomes of Zootopia, they never once said the attraction would focus on Judy’s hometown.

I think this is our disconnect. Lee mentioned Bunnyburrow. Bunnyburrow is not in Zootopia. It is Judy's hometown. It's a few hours away by train. It's not impossible due to Disney magic, and obviously trave times would not be realistic, but it's unlikely to be in the police ride. It just wouldn't fit in the story because it is too far away.

 

[Advisable Joseph]

I apologize for the typos.

Anyway, here is some info about the Shanghai ride.
It is like Runaway Railway's waterfall portion, with four rooms.