I apologize in advance for the length of this post.
Just wondering out loud...
Knowing that a version of Everest is planned for one of Shanghai's expansion pads....wonder what they'll do about the yeti situation.
Build him right this time?
Skip him altogether?
Do it a new way?
Hire Bigfoot instead?
:shrug:
How about add some elements from Kongfrontation with the Yeti actually shaking your vehicle. Something that definitely should have been done in the projection scene.
Thanks for taking a stand against homophobia. I'd like to check out your podcast. Can you post a link here or give the name?
Thanks.
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Thanks guys.
Have you talked about fanbois and the plush they sleep with yet?
In the interest of full disclosure, I had a friend of mine purchase Hooter and Fuzzball Plush for me out at Disneyland. I was never a huge fan of Captain EO, but I was a fan of Epcot Center growing up - for me that's why I got them. I've also purchased old plush from Kitchen Kabaret for my brother.
Having said that, Hooter and Fuzzball serve a greater purpose: Upsetting my fiance.
I think it's a very slippery slope. I also think it illustrates why Disney has gone aggressively after the so-called social media v. old/mainstream media. People who have never gone to a real private party (no MVMCP doesn't count) in a Disney park ... or sat at a table drinking free booze with a 'celeb' Imagineer ... and come back to a free resort room with gifts lying on the bed are not likely to be critical of the Mouse because they know they won't be invited back otherwise. ... This isn't like it once was.
The first Disney 'event' I went to was in the summer of 1990 to open the Dolphin Hotel and the first additions to Disney-MGM like Star Tours and Muppets Today or whatever that show was called (the ________ Tracy premiere was also at PI at the time, but I wasn't on 'that' list) and back then if say a reporter from a newspaper in Phoenix or Detroit ripped the whole place, there was no danger they wouldn't be invited back because Disney had to. ... they don't have to treat social media the same way.
I need to watch my words, but Disney wasn't expecting some of the negatives of having social media in such a large group at the Disney Dream launch. People were treated differently based on their perceived importance to TWDC and being that you're dealing with fans, you got complaints because people took things personally not understanding the business. When one blogger gets a room at the GF for three nights, but someone else gets one night at the Pop or one person gets to bring three family members while another is told 'no guests' or things of that nature, they appeared immediately online ...
A seasoned journalist is going to need more than what Disney offers to buy positive coverage. But a Mommy from Ohio ... well, let's just say Disney has opened up a very big can of worms.
I am a firm believer that Disney is wasting resources by preaching to the choir. You don't grow your business by going after an audience you already own.
So far we haven't been invited to any of these things. Jim Hill has been kind enough to help us with the growth of our show (as some of the more frequent posters on here will attest, I've defended him on several occasions). He pointed me in the right direction for requesting press credentials because I wouldn't know the first place to begin.
I can definitely see the issues with a changing "media", but a good experience in the hands of one of us "media" members is going to go a long way for viral marketing. There's a reason they do it, and you pretty much identified it.
I found the LoW an interesting point because it seemed to galvanize the fans all at once, which really never happens at WDW.
I think no matter what the complaint is whether it is LoW or the yeti or the nothing that is happening where PI sat, fans tend to focus on the micro aspect. They don't look at the bigger picture of WDW, let alone Parks and Resorts and how it all fits in with the agenda of TWDC.
If they love EPCOT, they may not give a damn about DAK at all. If they love WDW, then they may not care about DL or parks in Asia and Europe 'because I'll never get there'. If they care about animation, then they may not care about what ABC or ESPN are doing etc ... in other words, they don't look at the entire picture and why things are the way they are.
I am down on the fan community in the micro sense, but I just view it as a symptom of the current human condition (especially in the USA). I don't believe people engage their brains nearly enough.
I'd like to think of our analysis as a voice of reason, however conceited that might sound. Having said that, the Yeti is probably mentioned too frequently on our show.
The problem with being a fan of Disney in general is that while it's an Entertainment Company, few people recognize how large a net they actually cast.
It's starting to change at this point, but most people don't know the difference between Shrek and your average Pixar movie, or your average Pixar movie and a children's movie.
If you tell your average sports fan that you're a big Disney fan they may look at you funny. They look may change slightly when you make them aware that ESPN also falls under that umbrella.
Having said all that, I look at Epcot and DAK the same way. Both parks are unique - they are experience driven less so than attraction driven. Epcot is far closer to being complete, but to me it's my least favorite park at the moment as my interests align more strongly with the Animal Kingdom. I don't drink and I think most of the restaurants in World Showcase are overpriced - there goes half the appeal of the park. To me, my dismissing World Showcase is on par with people dismissing the Animal Exhibits at DAK.
I don't hate Epcot by any means, it has some of my favorite things at Disney, and it does this by having a larger lineup of things to do compared to the Animal Kingdom. Most of the rides at Epcot aren't going to draw me to that park (part of the reason why I don't feel it's an attraction driven park). What drives me to that park is Illuminations, and not waiting in line. When I go with my family my brother will want to go on every attraction in the parks - in Epcot that's far easier to do than anywhere else, mainly because outside of Test Track and Soarin' there are rarely lines at that park.
I'll respond to another post of yours later in this post, but it may be in the best interest of this thread to take this discussion to Private Messages or e-mail.
Not to take this thread off-topic...but could you point me in the direction of information regarding the cryptogram? I haven't heard of it and google fails me at the moment.
I assume you're talking about Stitch and not The Mansion (which is what someone else mentioned). In Stitch's Great Escape there is a cryptogram of sorts in one of the indoor holding areas. There's a poster on the wall (I think it's a warning poster, it's been a while since I've been in there) that is translated into this new language. Each of the "Stitch characters" corresponds with a specific letter. This Rosetta Stone of sorts can be used to translate a message that goes around the room.
So what will happen first, the yeti being fixed or bin laden being found?
bin laden broke the yeti.
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Thanks a lot Bin Ladin.
Best themed? Sure, but you've just hit the nail on the head as to the problem with Rhode.
Yes, yes, we all know - pretty queues are important, pretty around you is important. But it's not THE most important thing, which is the mistake he seems to keep making.
I'm in the "nothing to do there" camp when it comes to AK. Pretty? Sure, it's a gorgeous park. But the point of a theme park is to have rides and activities to enjoy. AK has very, very little of that.
It's sort of like World Showcase. You will find people who claim it's the most magnificent complex ever created, and others that think it's just one big glorified shopping mall. (In reality, it's a little of both.)
Also like WS, some people pretend you must be daft or unintelligent if you don't "get" it, when in fact I "get" AK very well. It was meant to be a hybrid zoo/Disney Park, but the problem is it pretty much fails on both levels because it excels at neither.
It's incredibly difficult to see live Animals at AK. The Safari is only decent if you catch it very early in the day, the rest of the day it's, "gee if you look past that rock way over there you can see the ear of a sleeping tiger inching above it" just before the crap-narration kicks in and you speed away.
The rest of the live animal stuff is mediocre at best - they do it better, much better, in other parts of the country (AK has nothing on the Bronx Zoo).
Take that away, and you have Dinosaur, the only other real ride there besides Kali (a much abbreviated version of what it could have been). I love Dinosaur - except for the horrid upkeep, of course (and broken effects - a trend at AK).
Then you have FOLK and Nemo, two shows that do impress people but they have to schedule against each other so you are forced to spend more time at AK if you want to possibly make both. FOLK is OK, but I don't care for Nemo at all - in large part because of the awfully uncomfortable seats. Neither of them are worth the two hour investment for me, I only go if I must when I bring new guests.
And...that's pretty much it. Add in a 3-D movie (which I actually enjoy quite a bit), and the two crap off the shelf things in Dinoland, and you've got...a whole theme park? Not so much.
So instead of focusing on the experience of all these great adventures we could be having, they spent the lions share of the money and effort on theming - great, but if there are so few decent attractions it can be themed amazingly and it doesn't matter. Welcome to the reason why AK did nothing to WDW's bottom line. Max, it's a 1-day park, and only because of the short hours they are open and the intentional staggering of show times to force you to stay longer if you wish to see both.
Heck, there aren't even any decent gift shops there.
I hate to hate on AK, it's not totally awful - it's just too much time spent on the icing and they forgot to finish baking the cake. Just like Everest.
This is why I'm not part of the cult of Rhode - he's definitely got vision, but he's a Walt - and every Walt needs his Roy, because if you don't have a Roy all the vision in the world isn't going to work because no one is grounded enough to see the experience for exactly what it is. No one seems to be doing that for him - the suits cut the budget, but when they do, he cuts the experience people are there for, but he makes sure that queue sure is snazzy.
Although snazzy queues and great theming are certainly central to the Disney experience, without attractions to back it up...well, you end up with something like AK. I don't hate AK, but it's certainly severely lacking in the attractions and rides department. No amount of pretty, lush scenery changes that, unfortunately. And here we have the flagship ride of the park, sitting broken for what's going on half a decade now.
This re-iterates my point, but from the opposite perspective. I definitely understand the hatred for the Animal Kingdom. It needs more attractions to help lengthen the day or at the very least bridge the gap between the staggered show times for Festival of the Lion King or Nemo. For me, the toughest thing to schedule in that park is Flights of Wonder - in my opinion it's one of the more underrated shows on property, but the last show is at either 3 or 3:30, and typically FotLK or Nemo have priority in guest touring.
In my opinion it already has the rides that bring you into the park (Everest and Safaris technically fit that bill). What it lacks is the roster of C/D tickets that help to lengthen the day at Epcot for those people that don't spend all day in World Showcase.
Really?
After 13 years?
:lookaroun
Compare to MK's development over the same time frame. AK is developing much more (too) slowly.
It is definitely developing too slowly.
It is very fair. It is a the 4th gated attraction at the worlds number one vacation destination with an overall attraction capacity far lower than it should be for its size or appeal. I know, it was never meant to be attraction-led but that`s what the paying public expect.
The park opened with 2 rides: Countdown to Extinction and Kilimanjaro Safaris.
The Discovery River Boats and the Wildlife Express Train were/are modes of transportation, not rides.
I understand what they attempted, but they tried to make the park too different and parts of it failed. The attention to detail in some areas is very impressive, but it's at the cost of quality in other places.
A Sunset Boulevard type expansion (or Fantasyland type as I've often described it) is absolutely necessary in the Camp Minnie Mickey area. That would allow them to address issues in other areas of the park with the increased capacity. In theory that's what's being done in DHS now, they added the capacity to Sunset Boulevard, now they can enhance other areas of the park in a slow piecemeal fashion.
I always get amused by reading about DAK's alleged shortcomings in the fan community.
Now, if someone just says 'I don't like the place ... it's not my taste ... I don't like animals etc' ... I tend to just accept them and move on.
But so many criticisms are just off the wall or they come from people who will ride the same MK attractions ad nausuem trip after trip and proclaim no bordedom or sense of staleness, yet put them into a park that literally changes hourly based on the activity of the animals and just get them on a MAGICal bus to EPCOT to ride Test Track.
I also find it amusing that people will attack Joe as the reason DAK doesn't, in their opinions, have enough to do. Joe didn't control having one-third of his park's budget axed before the park was finished resulting in one huge area lopped off for a character meet-greet-and-grope. Joe didn't again have control when his ambitious plans for what would have been a truly groundbreaking type of raft ride became an off-the-shelf piece of crap (although, to be fair, most folks tend to enjoy it). Joe didn't have the power to push through many additions since. The fact Everest ever got built was due to an amazing confluence of circumstances that resulted in the only real attempt at an E-Ticket at WDW the past decade.
If you have issues with the above, then your issues are not with Joe or WDI but with Burbank, Iger and TDO.
You may not like DAK, but it still somehow manages to be the best (by far) at WDW for following its mission statement and being true to its goals. Its theming is a work of art (Dinorama aside) ... and that includes everything from horticulture to retail and food and beverage locales. When details get lost or taken away from the older parks, DAK is full of them. Shops are amazing vs. what you get at MK.
The back half of that park is unlike any theme park on the planet.
Show quality is atrocious. The lack of additions is troubling.
Ironically, not in the shows themselves. I think the three main shows in the park are very well done, but I assume you meant presentation/maintenance at Dinosaur, Expedition Everest and to a lesser extent It's Tough to be a Bug
But there's fair criticism and then there's fanboi 'I just want more rides. I don't go to Disney World to see animals' rants. These are the same types who probably don't enjoy World Showcase very much or spend time at the resorts. They likes their rides, no matter how many times they've ridden a relic like Space Mountain. If given the choice between spending an hour walking the Pangani Forest Trail or waiting more than twice that to ride RnRC, they'll take the coaster.
That's fine. Everyone has different likes. But to assume DAK is somehow a lesser product because it isn't another MK (thank Oprah!) is faulty logic. It's not supposed to be and never was. Never. Even if BK had been built.
DAK has a wonderful 'menu' of attractions, but not for people who only want rides and don't consider animal exhibits and shows to be worthy of their time.
Agreed. I posted elsewhere that the attractions at DAK are limiting in the appeal. Couple that with the fact that there are a limited amount of them makes the overall appeal of the park much smaller.
The park has been quite successful in doing what it was intended to, which is keep folks captive to The Mouse even longer. But there's a point of diminishing returns (where's the fanbois who want to argue about building a fifth gate?) because people, especially Americans don't get an increase in vacation time (not to mention salary) everytime Disney decides to add a new park in a saturated market.
The problem is they messed up the opening of this park, it didn't really lengthen vacations as much as they wanted to because the money budgeted for the park went elsewhere on property once the cannibalism of other park's attendance set in. This is part of the problem with adding a new park now, to do so
and lengthen a guest's stay, a substantial investment needs to be made in the other parks in addition to the new park. They tried to do this in 97-98 but it failed. Test Track had delays and David Copperfield's Magic Underground ran out of money.
If you want to argue that there should have been more from the start, then I agree 100%. But Joe and his team would say as much. But this IS how your beloved WDC builds parks today and really always has. The ONLY second gate they built as a complete experience was EPCOT, at least with their own money as TDS is so far beyond (although, it too, isn't a ride heavy park). Look at everything from Disney-MGM to DCA to DSP to HKDL (a first gate MK in a HUGE new market) and they all were built using a model of not having very much at all from the start.
The problem is, Animal Kingdom in it's current state is on par with what it should have been on opening day, or at the very least 2-3 years out. It's still a substantial addition away.
When it opened MK had no Pirates, no Space, no big Thunder, no Splash & very few attractions on the scale of Kali, Safari or Dinosaur.
For its first 9 years Frontierland had nothing that would be considered a major attraction today. It was 21 years before Splash opened.
Sure, MK added faster than AK in its early years. But as someone else pointed out there are more parks now to compete for resources, and HS needed TSM more than AK needed another major attraction.
Personally I don't think of AK as a half day park, but for those who do: that's what park hoppers are for.
They could have gone more for quantity than quality and gotten something like Busch Gardens Africa. But I think they had the right idea in aiming for higher quality, and expand later on as they are able.
AK is basically tied with DHS at 4th and 5th in US theme park attendance (far ahead of Universal and BG-Africa), and I don't think those are all first-timers who just haven't figured out yet that there's not much to do there.
As I said earlier in the post, DAK opened with 2 rides.
