You might be right about the linear motor. I might have gotten an idea a long time ago that was not based on facts that for some strange reason stuck with me all this time. This will be the next leg of my research!
-
Welcome to the WDWMAGIC.COM Forums!
Please take a look around, and feel free to sign up and join the community.
Yes, another monorail thread!
- Thread starter PeterAlt
- Start date
You might be right about the linear motor. I might have gotten an idea a long time ago that was not based on facts that for some strange reason stuck with me all this time. This will be the next leg of my research!
After doing a little more research, I have learned that the Detroit People Mover system does us Linear Induction Motors.
Source:
http://www.arema.org/files/library/...etroit_People_Movers_New_Automated_System.pdf
I may have been incorrect in defining LIM as including wireless power transfer. I mentioned that the Miami Metromover uses LIM, but this may be incorrect. Comparing the Detroit system with the Miami system, you can see that the Detroit people mover cars do not have tires, while the Miami ones do.
I am going back now to correct this.
Source:
http://www.arema.org/files/library/...etroit_People_Movers_New_Automated_System.pdf
I may have been incorrect in defining LIM as including wireless power transfer. I mentioned that the Miami Metromover uses LIM, but this may be incorrect. Comparing the Detroit system with the Miami system, you can see that the Detroit people mover cars do not have tires, while the Miami ones do.
I am going back now to correct this.
After extensive research, I am concluding that Disney's best approach to connecting the rest of WDW to the monorail system is to connect the rest with a peoplemover rather than monorail. The peoplemover could use the buried footers located at Future World between Energy and MS to traverse out of from EPCOT Center.
Along EPCOT Drive to LBV Drive, there is developable land zoned for future mixed use. Perhaps a new development there could incorporate retail space, entertainment, hotel rooms, parking garage, and maybe even convention and/or stadium space. The site has a "strip" layout, along the road and the once-planned future monorail corridor to LBV. The engineering for this future development should be designed to accommodate the peoplemover from its Future World exit point through the entire length of the project. The peoplemover could run either on the roof of the development or enclosed within the development. By including the peoplemover corridor as part of this development, money could be saved on the overall cost of building the peoplemover system by creating a dual use of that development's support structures. Also, a direct transit link into EPCOT Center from this development will increase demand for anything within it, such as hotel rooms, retail, convention facilities, etc.
Once the peoplemover line exits the facility, it should continue on a elevated pathway on EPCOT Drive to LBV Drive and follow above the median of LBV drive to the proposed Downtown Disney parking facility. Elevated moving sidewalks, like the ones at Universal StudIos Florida, could provide links across the street to WDW Village Marketplace and Downtown Disney's West Side. Another stop could provide an elevated walkway to Typhoon Lagoon. A leg of the system could extend west to DHS. An at-grade section, after crossing World Drive, could extend to the Coronado Springs Resort, Blizzard Beach, and DAK.
An enclosed at-grade peoplemover and/or moving sidewalk system could run along the west side of Future World on or above the service roads, with stops and/or exits at Disney's Boardwalk and an elevated section crossing to DHS, where it could link to the system described above.
This not only would solve the transportation problems, but will also create additional streams of revenue for the company by fully exploiting existing assets with developable assets. It does so in an attractive, convenient, entertaining, and cost effective way. Disney should put Imagineering in charge of developing this project, but instruct them to also work with an outside company, such as Bombardiar, for their expertise in transportation systems.
I'm putting together some graphics that I will post to illustrate this. Thoughts?
Along EPCOT Drive to LBV Drive, there is developable land zoned for future mixed use. Perhaps a new development there could incorporate retail space, entertainment, hotel rooms, parking garage, and maybe even convention and/or stadium space. The site has a "strip" layout, along the road and the once-planned future monorail corridor to LBV. The engineering for this future development should be designed to accommodate the peoplemover from its Future World exit point through the entire length of the project. The peoplemover could run either on the roof of the development or enclosed within the development. By including the peoplemover corridor as part of this development, money could be saved on the overall cost of building the peoplemover system by creating a dual use of that development's support structures. Also, a direct transit link into EPCOT Center from this development will increase demand for anything within it, such as hotel rooms, retail, convention facilities, etc.
Once the peoplemover line exits the facility, it should continue on a elevated pathway on EPCOT Drive to LBV Drive and follow above the median of LBV drive to the proposed Downtown Disney parking facility. Elevated moving sidewalks, like the ones at Universal StudIos Florida, could provide links across the street to WDW Village Marketplace and Downtown Disney's West Side. Another stop could provide an elevated walkway to Typhoon Lagoon. A leg of the system could extend west to DHS. An at-grade section, after crossing World Drive, could extend to the Coronado Springs Resort, Blizzard Beach, and DAK.
An enclosed at-grade peoplemover and/or moving sidewalk system could run along the west side of Future World on or above the service roads, with stops and/or exits at Disney's Boardwalk and an elevated section crossing to DHS, where it could link to the system described above.
This not only would solve the transportation problems, but will also create additional streams of revenue for the company by fully exploiting existing assets with developable assets. It does so in an attractive, convenient, entertaining, and cost effective way. Disney should put Imagineering in charge of developing this project, but instruct them to also work with an outside company, such as Bombardiar, for their expertise in transportation systems.
I'm putting together some graphics that I will post to illustrate this. Thoughts?
flynnibus
Premium Member
I've been advocating a routable peoplemover paths as the answer for years. Think 'automated baggage handling system'. The system would include both low speed and high speed zones, full automation, and vehicles destinations are determined by guest input.
The problem with peoplemover in general is the distances involved. The system must be multispeed and needs multiple routes to be practical. The ability to reuse the same pathes for different routes would be essential in costing it all.
It's already been done in smaller scale - it just needs to be built up to family sized carriages with the safety systems needed for humans.
At grade with elevated crossings is probably preferred as it minimizes evacuation issues, but introduces new obstacle avoidance and breakdown issues. A possible compromise would be to have an elevated track, but not one like the monorail where it's beam only and no need for it to be so high the entire distance.
The problem with peoplemover in general is the distances involved. The system must be multispeed and needs multiple routes to be practical. The ability to reuse the same pathes for different routes would be essential in costing it all.
It's already been done in smaller scale - it just needs to be built up to family sized carriages with the safety systems needed for humans.
At grade with elevated crossings is probably preferred as it minimizes evacuation issues, but introduces new obstacle avoidance and breakdown issues. A possible compromise would be to have an elevated track, but not one like the monorail where it's beam only and no need for it to be so high the entire distance.
If you go to Bombardia's website, you will see that they have higher capacity peoplemover systems, like the Innova 300, so near-monorail capacity is what I have in mind. If more capacity is required, just add more trains. The on-demand service you're thinking of is called PRT. There is one PRT system in the US and that is in Morgantown, WV and has been highly successful. Another PRT system is being built in Abu Dabi, UAE. That system runs underground, uses rubber tires and is powered with electric batteries. It's like an automated golf cart.
The problem with having low capacity PRT at WDW is that it won't meet the required capacity demand, even if they served only the resorts. GPRT (Group Personal Rapid Transit) is more viable, but still won't meet capacity demand. The Universal Health peoplemover system is a better fit, and it even has PRT-like features, where people could press a button at stations to call a train to stop there and retrieve those waiting at the station.
In Broward County, the Port Authority is planning on building a six-mile peoplemover system connecting the port to Ft. Lauderdale International Airport. At the same time, the state is looking at building an at-grade light rail that will connect the local Tri-Rail commuter rail system with a new commuter rail line using FEC tracks, located on tracks a few miles east. Also, a local group sponsored by Broward County plans on building a network of street cars for a circular around downtown Ft. Lauderdale. All of these systems have corridor routes that overlap. All will use different tracks - none of which are shared.
The above is an example of pure stupidly on the planning level, in my opinion. The Port Authory's peoplemover system will be one of the largest peoplemover systems in existence, if not the largest. Since all these Broward systems overlap, why not just built the other systems as extensions to the Port Authority"s system? It would be more cost effective, since a single track would only have to get built, instead of several, wherever there would have been overbuilt track segments. I bring this up because this is something like what you were talking about, but I agree with you when applied to my Broward example.
At-grade can work if an enclosure is built over it. This is best applicable, if built on or over the service road of Future World on the west side. My only question is if this is done, how would the west side of Future World be serviced? There could be special servicing peoplemover vehicles that could run on the same tracks, or build the tracks above the service road.
Or run the peoplemover through the underground utilidores.
As requested, in leu of the Disney Springs announcement, I am bumping this thread.
I also posted about this subject here:
http://forums.wdwmagic.com/threads/my-latest-monorail-research.853248/
I also posted about this subject here:
http://forums.wdwmagic.com/threads/my-latest-monorail-research.853248/
spiritofNorway
Well-Known Member
After spending time on this forum lm pretty negative about anything good ever happening at WDW...
A thread that was locked?
And the monorail isn't coming to DtD, Disney Springs, or whatever else they may wish to call it.....
First, it was locked because this is the thread I was told to put it in, instead of creating a new one. I posted that link as a reference in case that information wasn't in this one.
Second, I never said monorail was coming to Disney Springs. I'm predicting that it will be part of a major larger plan that is still years away from being announced. I predicted four things that fit together like pieces of a puzzle, if you even read my OP. (1) A much larger DTD area, (2) parking garages as part of that DTD expansion, (3) that the parking garage would connect via elevated walkway to a future DTD monorail station that would link it to EPCOT, and (4) an I-4 off ramp that would also tie in to the parking structure and future monorail line. So far, two of these are dead on accurate.
Just as long as you've never said the monorail would be coming to that area.....
And rumors of the expansion and garages at DtD had been discussed for well over a year, your "predictions" not withstanding.......
No.....
unkadug
Follower of "Saget"The Cult
Are you SURE?
Well, after investing in new parking garages, bridges, restaurants, shops, renovating World of Disney and potentially spending some as-yet-to-be-determined amount on a new exit off I-4? Yeah, I'm pretty sure.....
Wrong again. I didn't say it wasn't coming to that area. It will. Eventually. That's been the plan for DECADES. I hope they do it soon before I'm too to enjoy it! It could be decades more until they actually do it. I think it's between 5 and 10 years away, maybe. Just not part of Disney Springs.
Do you always contradict yourself so readily?
And plans are always floating around for this part of Disney or that. It doesn't make someone Kresken in saying so.....
lazyboy97o
Well-Known Member
It's bit of this plan, bit of that plan, and some randomness all tossed at a wall. Slightly more fact based than jt's predictions but just as vague so as to always be right.
Look, I'm going through my hard drive now and I will post photographic evidence that I've collected. You be the judge. But to be clear, I didn't say it was coming to Disney Springs, but I did say Disney has had a plan to bring it to LBV since WDW even opened. There's been movement to complete it on and off throughout WDW's history. They were just about to do it before Eisner came in as part of a project that would have brought New Orleans Square to LBV and they actually built pieces of it as part of the construction for EPCOT because New Orleans Square was about ready to be green lit. Eisner cancelled those plans, but monorail expansion would get pushed again when DHS and the EPCOT resorts moved ahead. That fizzled out to keep DHS costs initially low but wasn't cancelled, just shelved. Those plans were dusted off and about to move forward once again in 2001 but the 9/11 forced the company to reconsider it. Since then, the plans have been on again/off again, as the economics of the day are factored in.
Precisely. Simply saying "Hey, I've connected these random dots so this must be coming true!" really doesn't make it so.
Which of course is precisely why you bumped this thread "in lieu of the Disney Springs announcement."